Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[t-b-g]

On 27/05/2021 at 22:11, LNER4479 said:

Hey, look what turned up in the post!

 

Initial euphoria was tempered with a modicum of disappointment as they are actually a bit poorly and will need repairs before they start 'ting!'-ing. Nevertheless, thanks to Barry Young for bringing these to my attention. 

 

Room for more if there's any others gathering dust out there ...

 

It was a shame that they were only available for a short while and are quite rare nowadays. What a nice find!

 

I can't help but think that a similar product now would sell well as my perception is that there are many more modellers around wanting to use such things to make their operation more interesting and realistic. I think they were a product well ahead of their time.

 

The technology on those is relatively simple and wouldn't be too difficult to recreate with some laser cut boxes, coils scrounged from old solenoid point motors and a few bits and bobs such as a rotary switch and a needle that is attracted by a magnet plus a bicycle bell.

Edited May 30, 2021 by t-b-g
To correct autocorrect

[Barry O]

How about some of these?

 

Door Bell

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

12 minutes ago, Barry O said:

How about some of these?

 

Door Bell

 

Baz

Thanks - but did you spot the word 'loud' in the product description?(!)

[Chris M]

I’ve got a sound pad app on my phone. Will play any sound you care to put on your phone. Guaranteed to add atmosphere to any model railway and best of all it’s completely free!

[Sharky]

41 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I’ve got a sound pad app on my phone. Will play any sound you care to put on your phone. Guaranteed to add atmosphere to any model railway and best of all it’s completely free!

 

More Cows?!

 

Just in case you didn't think there was enough variation in 'cows'  

[LNER4479]

5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

It was a shame that they were only available for a short while and are quite rare nowadays. What a nice find!

 

The technology on those is relatively simple and wouldn't be too difficult to recreate with some laser cut boxes, coils scrounged from old solenoid point motors and a few bits and bobs such as a rotary switch and a needle that is attracted by a magnet plus a bicycle bell.

Presumably, that is how Peter Denny made the ones for Buckingham? Any chance of a quick picture or two? A bicycle bell is an interesting idea - methinks that's about the right size / sound.

 

2 hours ago, Chris M said:

I’ve got a sound pad app on my phone. Will play any sound you care to put on your phone. Guaranteed to add atmosphere to any model railway and best of all it’s completely free!

I've already had the programmable MP3 idea suggested and I may go so far as to commission a small experiment along those lines. Trouble is, it's instantly adding complexity and not very 'traditional' ...

[t-b-g]

42 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Presumably, that is how Peter Denny made the ones for Buckingham? Any chance of a quick picture or two? A bicycle bell is an interesting idea - methinks that's about the right size / sound.

 

I've already had the programmable MP3 idea suggested and I may go so far as to commission a small experiment along those lines. Trouble is, it's instantly adding complexity and not very 'traditional' ...

 

Happy to oblige. Nothing so grand as a commercial solenoid for the bells, just a home wound coil of enamelled copper wire. The Meccano arm allows the bell to be adjusted to give the best clear ring.

 

The instruments themselves use lights rather than a needle. A wiring diagram was published in MRJ issue No 60 way back when. They are basically a rotary switch with the lights at both ends wired in series. The tapper for the bell is a simple sprung plunger on the block instrument.

 

If you need any more detail please let me know and I will be happy to help.

 

 

Tony

[Clive Mortimore]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

How about some of these?

 

Door Bell

 

Baz

 

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Thanks - but did you spot the word 'loud' in the product description?(!)

   

[Barry O]

add some blue tack on teh bell.. deadens the sound... mind you how LOUD is LOUD??

 

 

Baz

[5BarVT]

With an external clapper or adjustment on the bell position (as t-b-g above), the loudness can usually be varied.  More difficult when it is just an internal solenoid.  The trick is to have the solenoid/coil reach the end stop just before the clapper strikes the bell, “how much” before determines the loudness.

If you want needles rather than lights, just use a centre zero ammeter at each end, also in series (and suitable series feed resistor).  + for LC, - for TOL, it’s how the big railway did it.  I’m being deliberately vague on which ‘big railway’ as GW was one polarity and Southern was the opposite and I can’t remember who was which!

Paul.

[31A]

Re Block Instruments, here's some I made earlier; probably about 30 years ago for a layout I built with my father in my parents' loft.

 

 

The solenoids are probably some sort of Government Surplus, most likely from a shop in the Tottenham Court Road!  They were worked from three-position GPO key switches on the panel, which also transferred traction power from one controller to another and also unlocked ( = made the point motor feed live) the points at the junction, so they had to be used in order to run the railway.  At first we just had white, green and red lamps on the panel to indicate Line Blocked, Line Clear and Train on Line, but I thought we ought to have some proper instruments so I made these; they hung above the control panels.

 

We used a doorbell as a Block Bell; we only had one as we know which one of us had dinged it!  I modified it somehow by bypassing the 'interrupter' so that it worked as a single stroke bell, but the bit of wire seems to have fallen off now and I can't remember how I did it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

Re Block Instruments, here's some I made earlier; probably about 30 years ago for a layout I built with my father in my parents' loft.

 

 

The solenoids are probably some sort of Government Surplus, most likely from a shop in the Tottenham Court Road!  They were worked from three-position GPO key switches on the panel, which also transferred traction power from one controller to another and also unlocked ( = made the point motor feed live) the points at the junction, so they had to be used in order to run the railway.  At first we just had white, green and red lamps on the panel to indicate Line Blocked, Line Clear and Train on Line, but I thought we ought to have some proper instruments so I made these; they hung above the control panels.

 

We used a doorbell as a Block Bell; we only had one as we know which one of us had dinged it!  I modified it somehow by bypassing the 'interrupter' so that it worked as a single stroke bell, but the bit of wire seems to have fallen off now and I can't remember how I did it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those look really lovely. There is something charming about a home made item like those block instruments that seems to have been lost in the modern world of telling a machine to cut what you want with exact precision. With the greater accuracy comes a loss of character and individuality.

[31A]

1 minute ago, t-b-g said:

 

Those look really lovely. There is something charming about a home made item like those block instruments that seems to have been lost in the modern world of telling a machine to cut what you want with exact precision. With the greater accuracy comes a loss of character and individuality.

 

Thank you; very kind of you to say so!  I'm afraid my cabinet making skills aren't up with those who made the real things ....   Anyway, they worked!

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

With an external clapper or adjustment on the bell position (as t-b-g above), the loudness can usually be varied.  More difficult when it is just an internal solenoid.  The trick is to have the solenoid/coil reach the end stop just before the clapper strikes the bell, “how much” before determines the loudness.

 

6 hours ago, 31A said:

We used a doorbell as a Block Bell; we only had one as we know which one of us had dinged it!  I modified it somehow by bypassing the 'interrupter' so that it worked as a single stroke bell, but the bit of wire seems to have fallen off now and I can't remember how I did it.

 

About 50 years ago (crikey!) the late Ray Hammond taught me how to do that. Use an ordinary external-clapper bell and run it on DC. Bypass the make-and-break switch and adjust the clapper so that when the coil pulls it in it is just short of the bell. When you energise the coil, the mass of the clapper makes it continue just far enough to contact the dome and sound the bell but its subsequent vibration doesn't bring it close enough. That way you get a clear ding not a thunk.

[jamie92208]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

About 50 years ago (crikey!) the late Ray Hammond taught me how to do that. Use an ordinary external-clapper bell and run it on DC. Bypass the make-and-break switch and adjust the clapper so that when the coil pulls it in it is just short of the bell. When you energise the coil, the mass of the clapper makes it continue just far enough to contact the dome and sound the bell but its subsequent vibration doesn't bring it close enough. That way you get a clear ding not a thunk.

I had to learn that the hard way when I made two hand operated bells on a horse drawn tram.  They were operated by rods with handles on from inside the saloon and told the driver a passenger wanted to get off. The thunk was annoying until we realised that we had to allow the clapper to bounce.  It worked well after that.  This was learned the day before we started carrying passengers with a deadline looming.

 

Jamie

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by jamie92208

[LNER4479]

Anyhow ...

 

Even though the layout is part dismantled for a few months, that doesn't stop work on other things. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you 2021's loco build project:

 

Only been 'in stock' for about 20 years(!). Wish me luck ...

 

In fact, nothing like a bank holiday weekend to make a start. Chassis is a bit basic(!) so I'm already adding things. Spring hangers (from a spare B3 etch!), holes for brake hangers, motor cut out filled in, slots for motion bracket supports and bottom rear of frames profiled more accurately.

 

No Poppy's jig required - it all bolts together in the traditional style. Although not apparent, the bearings for the centre drivers set just slightly high, to avoid grounding on any high spots. Drivers are an old set of Romfords 26mms I had to hand - this will be a 'layout loco'!

 

Footplate assembled from four pieces. A fair bit of fettling to get them to behave.

 

Doesn't quite look like a Pat just yet but give it time. The important thing at this stage is ride height and driving wheel clearance (being 26mm helps).

 

Haven't got a motor/gearbox for it yet but I'm planning on this being a 'heavy hauler' due all the weight it's carrying around. Might even get called up for overnight sleeping car train duty over Shap. I also fancy it in early BR appearance, possibly in lined black which some of them went into before getting their better known cowpat green livery.

 

More as and when I get round to it. I fancy this might be a gradual job throughout the rest of 2021 - there's other things on the agenda as well!

Edited May 31, 2021 by LNER4479

[innocentman]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Anyhow ...

 

Even though the layout is part dismantled for a few months, that doesn't stop work on other things. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you 2021's loco build project:

 

Only been 'in stock' for about 20 years(!). Wish me luck ...

 

In fact, nothing like a bank holiday weekend to make a start. Chassis is a bit basic(!) so I'm already adding things. Spring hangers (from a spare B3 etch!), holes for brake hangers, motor cut out filled in, slots for motion bracket supports and bottom rear of frames profiled more accurately.

 

No Poppy's jig required - it all bolts together in the traditional style. Although not apparent, the bearings for the centre drivers set just slightly high, to avoid grounding on any high spots. Drivers are an old set of Romfords 26mms I had to hand - this will be a 'layout loco'!

 

Footplate assembled from four pieces. A fair bit of fettling to get them to behave.

 

Doesn't quite look like a Pat just yet but give it time. The important thing at this stage is ride height and driving wheel clearance (being 26mm helps).

 

Haven't got a motor/gearbox for it yet but I'm planning on this being a 'heavy hauler' due all the weight it's carrying around. Might even get called up for overnight sleeping car train duty over Shap. I also fancy it in early BR appearance, possibly in lined black which some of them went into before getting their better known cowpat green livery.

 

More as and when I get round to it. I fancy this might be a gradual job throughout the rest of 2021 - there's other things on the agenda as well!

If you would like a nice etched brass cab to try instead of the cast one, let me know and I will sort out a set of parts via Barry.

just finished mine today. Plenty of spare etched bits including steps

 

Andy

Edited May 31, 2021 by innocentman

[LNER4479]

15 hours ago, innocentman said:

If you would like a nice etched brass cab to try instead of the cast one, let me know and I will sort out a set of parts via Barry.

just finished mine today. Plenty of spare etched bits including steps

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

 

Wow - that looks mighty fine indeed. My Millholme kit duly assigned to the dustbin! (only kidding).

 

I was in danger of insulting you by asking what kit you built it from but I've since read your entry on the Chapel thread where you reveal that it is scratchbuilt. Fantastic!

 

Well - yes please! - re the etched parts I was already thinking along the lines of replacing certain components with etched parts anyway (you don't have any spare smoke deflectors, do you?).I'm seeing Barry on the 11th but no immediate hurry as there's no desperate urgency this end.

 

I look forward to seeing your loco in the flesh one day.

[innocentman]

23 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Andy,

 

Wow - that looks mighty fine indeed. My Millholme kit duly assigned to the dustbin! (only kidding).

 

I was in danger of insulting you by asking what kit you built it from but I've since read your entry on the Chapel thread where you reveal that it is scratchbuilt. Fantastic!

 

Well - yes please! - re the etched parts I was already thinking along the lines of replacing certain components with etched parts anyway (you don't have any spare smoke deflectors, do you?).I'm seeing Barry on the 11th but no immediate hurry as there's no desperate urgency this end.

 

I look forward to seeing your loco in the flesh one day.

 

I will PM you with a list of bits I have that you may be able to make use of

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Andy,

 

Wow - that looks mighty fine indeed. My Millholme kit duly assigned to the dustbin! (only kidding).

 

I was in danger of insulting you by asking what kit you built it from but I've since read your entry on the Chapel thread where you reveal that it is scratchbuilt. Fantastic!

 

Well - yes please! - re the etched parts I was already thinking along the lines of replacing certain components with etched parts anyway (you don't have any spare smoke deflectors, do you?).I'm seeing Barry on the 11th but no immediate hurry as there's no desperate urgency this end.

 

I look forward to seeing your loco in the flesh one day.

Make sure yours has a different number, as something tells me there'll be some through running between Leeds London Road, Chapel and Carlisle in due course...

[Barry O]

Royal Tank Regiment and The Derbyshire Yeonanry are my pair

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

Royal Tank Regiment

Of course!

[LNER4479]

I enjoy looking at books and sites like Rail-online to try  and select a suitable loco, obviously looking for one that would have been seen regularly at Carlisle, typically either shedded there or somewhere like Crewe. 45524 'Blackpool' is cropping up quite a bit. There's also the riveted versus flush tender nettle to grasp (the kit comes with the latter).

 

The devil in me rather fancies it in lined black with 'British Railways' on the tender; anyone happen to know when the last one ran like that?

[Barry Ten]

My Lady Godiva (much bashed-out Hornby body, Comet chassis and tender),  the latter should be rivetted I think.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

34 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

the latter should be rivetted I think.

 

Well, who's counting?!!

 

Mike.