Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[richard.h]

Just read through this thread, beautiful layout (reminds me of home) you have captured the bleak open countryside of the area to perfection, definitely one to follow for the future.

 

I don't know if I missed it in the text but I was wondering how you control the banking engine to match the train speed, is it two operators working together or do you have some other system?

[LMS29]

Just read through this thread, beautiful layout (reminds me of home) you have captured the bleak open countryside of the area to perfection, definitely one to follow for the future.

 

I don't know if I missed it in the text but I was wondering how you control the banking engine to match the train speed, is it two operators working together or do you have some other system?

Richard,

 

I am sure Red Leader will explain in detail in one of his future inputs. Briefly, we started with the photo evidence of goods trains on Shap and then assembled the appropriate combination of wagons and loco. Once assembled we ran the goods with each of our bankers to find which of the bankers gave the most realistic banking.

 

Tom

[LNER4479]

Thanks Tom - and apologies Richard for delayed reply. Been a bit busy taking the 'other layout' to Ally-Pally.

 

I haven't (yet) explained the control system for the banking operations so you haven't missed it. Briefly, one controller powers both locos up the bank (having identified suitably matched locos as Tom explains). When it gets to the summit, a switching arrangement linked to the lowering of a signal diverts the power to a section of track at the summit (that the banking engine is about to run into) to a second controller which the summit operator uses to bring the banking loco to a stop. The main train is left to its own devices to carry on into the fiddle yard.

 

It's very simple (as all my electrical work is!) but surprisingly effective and, once operators got the hang of it, didn't really cause too many problems at Warley.

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Tom - and apologies Richard for delayed reply. Been a bit busy taking the 'other layout' to Ally-Pally.

 

I haven't (yet) explained the control system for the banking operations so you haven't missed it. Briefly, one controller powers both locos up the bank (having identified suitably matched locos as Tom explains). When it gets to the summit, a switching arrangement linked to the lowering of a signal diverts the power to a section of track at the summit (that the banking engine is about to run into) to a second controller which the summit operator uses to bring the banking loco to a stop. The main train is left to its own devices to carry on into the fiddle yard.

 

It's very simple (as all my electrical work is!) but surprisingly effective and, once operators got the hang of it, didn't really cause too many problems at Warley.

Not DCC :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

eccellent :yahoo:

[Barry O]

Clive, we used a similar system on Leeds Victoria a large OO layout in the late 1970s to release the pilot engines as trains departed from a terminus.

 

Probably easier to use dcc but dc is achievable with a bit of thought.

 

Baz

[Enterprisingwestern]

A similar non DCC system used on Narrow Road to release the train engine/ECS stock.

 

Mike.

[coachmann]

My Dad has always reckoned that 1964 was the last good year for mainline steam in this country. 

And he was right.....I have said this all along. It was the final year that the railway looked as it always had done. When I moved to North Wales in 1965, half the place was without a railway, steam locos were down to the crap classes, and it was all closed this, closed that and weeds and desolation. There was no dignity after 1964.

 

I came late to this thread (this morning) and have been reading it through. While run-pasts are not my thing, I do appreciate good modelling. My vote goes with blood & custard days (natural for my age), but I can't help thinking the 1930's would also be interesting before the LNWR big-engine holocaust.

Edited March 31, 2018 by coachmann

[APOLLO]

1964 was a good year, D1733 was painted blue and hauled the brand spanking new XP64 blue & grey coaches !!

 

I agree steam wise the Beeching cuts and dieselisation / modernisation changed the scene fast in many places. It's an emotive subject, and a lot depends on your age and what you saw in your early years. In 1963 I was 11 and started spotting / train travels. just managed a few exotic (Hemyock, Halwill, S&D Bath to Evercreech) runs, and some downright tatty ones (Middleton & Royton branches, Wigan Central, Widnes CLC loop etc) - then quickly it was all gone. I stopped spotting in 1973 when the WCML was electrified and the double headed D400'ers stopped thundering through Wigan.

 

Happy days though.

 

Brit15

[Barry O]

I do like the switch over period steam-diesel but also have a hankering for the Blood and Custard BR Era. BR Steam locomotive blue Duchesses do look nice.  My coaching stock reflects this as soem Blood and Custards are used on Herculaneum Dock together with Crimson suburban and BGs etc.

 

Until the Princesses and  Duchesses appeared the line showed how bad the Midland small engine policy was. It also requires some more lines on coaches! On the other hand it fits nicely into my current coach building opportunities.

 

Of course it would look nice with a rake of plum and spilt milk LNWR coaches with Queen of the Belgians at its head (attached to one of the long suffering Precedents) but too many changes required to the infrastructure for that.

 

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

Now that the 'other' layout has safely attended Ally-Pally, time for another instalment of the Shap construction story, methinks.

 

No point in making a model of the prototype and not undertaking a site visit! This was May 2016. Thoroughly recommended if you're ever in the area and looking for somewhere a little different to stay.

 

This is the view from the Queen Victoria monument set back a little from the line. Although a little overcast, you can clearly see the line and the road to the hotel, passing under the line via the bridge that I had already constructed by this point. Of interest for the model, was the general lie of the land and the way the drainage flows - not the sort of thing you'd pay much attention to normally. If you follow the line of the tufts of grass (in themselves, quite a distinctive feature) on the left, as you head over to the right hand side of the road, this becomes a more pronounced depression in the land ( a mini-valley if you like?) and this tied in with one of the principal objects of our attention.

 

A convenient footpath follows the 'mini-valley' and this view looking back towards the road shows more clearly how it is part of the natural drainage.

 

And this is just absolutely delightful. How could you NOT include such a thing in your model? In truth, it is too far away from the line but we won't let a little thing like that get in the way. The water is flowing left to right here and the stream leads back up a short way to the line (out of view, to the left). The 'mini-valley' flows into this stream bottom left and the stream in turn is a tributary of Birk Beck, which drains the water off the fell into the river Lune at Tebay. The footpath goes over this bridge and it appears, from old maps, as if this was an old route across the fell before the days of the railway.

 

This is the stream heading back towards the railway. Of course, where there's water things are bound to grow in a (comparatively) sheltered valley as opposed to the harsh, exposed fell tops.

 

Tara! Little known bridge 116 of the Lancaster & Carlisle railway. This bridge is simply not visible from either the train or the 'classic' Shap Wells viewpoint but there is just so much great detail here for the model. Things that struck me were the randomly placed stones, large and small - some no doubt brought down in times of flood, but others probably as deposited during the last ice age - the meandering shape of the stream, the shallow, boggy water and the way the drystone wall continues over the bridge with a narrow - but negotiable - path over the top of the bridge. All things that we can have a crack at in miniature.

 

The other main object of the expedition was to suss out the distinctive high level footbridge that crosses over the railway at the final cutting before the summit.

 

It was shown as part of a footpath and so it proved. Quite a thrill (well, it takes all sorts!) to cross this bridge ...

 

... with dramatic views of the railway below. This is looking towards the summit.

 

The best views of the bridge are from the east side, including the arrangement of the drystone walls. More vital information to incorporate into the model.

 

Finally, it was only a few hundred yards further on to get to the summit itself and more useful detail over how the land rises and falls.

 

Although I'd already made a start on construction, overwhelmingly photos such as these became a major reference source for working on the rest of the model. I concluded that, apart from the usual increase in vegetation, not a great deal had changed much in the last 50 years - in truth, maybe not in the last 150 years(!) - just a case of comparing with contemporary photos of the 1960's. More than anything else, such a field trip was a great source of inspiration (not that I was particularly lacking in such) and I returned dying to just 'get on with it'. As, hopefully, succeeding posts will demonstrate...

 

Meanwhile, in other news (it now being April 2018!), keep a look out for the May edition of Railway Modeller when it hits the stands later on this month. There are a couple of articles based around the layout, using a selection of the excellent photos Tony (Wright) took at the Warley show (a couple of which have already featured on this thread). I was shown the Printer's digital version yesterday at the York show by Steve Flint / Tim Rayner and they look to have made a lovely job of it.

Edited April 2, 2018 by LNER4479

[MRDBLUE17]

I’ve enjoyed reading through about the layout and especially the building techniques for the baseboards and the stone walling which looks fantastic. I like the Northern section of the WCML from Preston up to Carlisle and agree that there are not many large layouts of it.

 

Hopefully will get to see it at a show one day

 

All the best

Mark

[LNER4479]

Continuing straight on, fuelled by the new research, it didn't take long to incorporate one of the main new details.

 

A combination of pieces of 6mm ply, pinned and glued, overlaid with Wills dressed stone and some scribed plaster and we have the guts of bridge 116.

 

Painted, planted and now surrounded by chicken wire, shaped according to the details of the form of the land.

 

This viewpoint shows how ridiculously compressed this all is compared to what we saw on our visit. However, shouldn't be quite so apparent from more prototypical viewpoints.

 

Now with drystone wall formers added, thus allowing the next phase of the scenery to be worked on.

 

Some while later, after a few drystone walling sessions, the stream and bridge (more of a culvert I suppose?) are looking a bit more integrated into the landscape. Of note is the 'mini valley', as observed on the site visit. The continued difficulty in matching the drystone wall colour from session to session is apparent! Some form of painting, blending and weathering will be required, methinks...

 

Much, much later (about 10 months on to be exact), this is how it ended up. Just as with the prototype, it is difficult to see bridge 116 through the trees. The stream bed was painted mucky reddy-brown with various sized stones added then a thin layer of Deluxe Aqua Magic carefully applied. A few little flicks of matt white paint to suggest movement and that was more or less it. Never done any sort of water feature on a layout before so was quite pleased with how it turned out. The delightful footbridge had still to be added at this point and in fact was only done a few days before the Warley show!

Edited April 2, 2018 by LNER4479

[Mallard60022]

Yippee G. You have just reminded me of what is still probably the better way for me to proceed with my first bit of scenic work. Simples wire bits and plaster shett bandaid as the young people say (or do they?)

Phil

Edited April 3, 2018 by Mallard60022

[St Enodoc]

BR Steam locomotive blue Duchesses do look nice.

And blue Kings...

[St Enodoc]

And he was right.....I have said this all along. It was the final year that the railway looked as it always had done. When I moved to North Wales in 1965, half the place was without a railway, steam locos were down to the crap classes, and it was all closed this, closed that and weeds and desolation. There was no dignity after 1964.

 

I came late to this thread (this morning) and have been reading it through. While run-pasts are not my thing, I do appreciate good modelling. My vote goes with blood & custard days (natural for my age), but I can't help thinking the 1930's would also be interesting before the LNWR big-engine holocaust.

 

1964 was a good year, D1733 was painted blue and hauled the brand spanking new XP64 blue & grey coaches !!

 

I agree steam wise the Beeching cuts and dieselisation / modernisation changed the scene fast in many places. It's an emotive subject, and a lot depends on your age and what you saw in your early years. In 1963 I was 11 and started spotting / train travels. just managed a few exotic (Hemyock, Halwill, S&D Bath to Evercreech) runs, and some downright tatty ones (Middleton & Royton branches, Wigan Central, Widnes CLC loop etc) - then quickly it was all gone. I stopped spotting in 1973 when the WCML was electrified and the double headed D400'ers stopped thundering through Wigan.

 

Happy days though.

 

Brit15

Interestingly, 1964 was the year that Cyril Freezer identified as the birth of Modern Image.

[St Enodoc]

IMG_6767.JPG

And this is just absolutely delightful. How could you NOT include such a thing in your model?

You will have earned a lot of Brownie points by saying that...

[Clive Mortimore]

Interestingly, 1964 was the year that Cyril Freezer identified as the birth of Modern Image.

Hi John

 

In conversation with Cryril he said that the term "Modern Image" came out of a RM editorial meeting and he could not remember who first said it in the meeting. 

 

He also said that my 1960s layouts, when he saw both Pig lane and Hanging Hill were real Modern Image layouts. So if he says 1960s layouts were real Modern Image then that is where the term should stay along with Chelsea boots and Ford Anglias.

[Jim Martin]

Interestingly, 1964 was the year that Cyril Freezer identified as the birth of Modern Image.

Wasn't it actually the year that he identified as the birth of the Modern Image, a small but significant difference?

 

Jim

[LNER4479]

I've heard that there was a RM front cover, possibly featuring an AL electric on the West Coast somewhere, with the headline 'In the Modern Image'.

 

I think you're right, John, to make the connection about the 'last good year for steam' and 'The Modern Image'. XP64 (in 1964?) saw the first application of the new blue/grey coach livery and in 1965 'British Railways' became 'British Rail' (did it not?)

 

Others will no doubt correct me on any of those facts - my excuse was that I only joined the company (BR) in 1986; I had only just been born in 1964!!

[Mallard60022]

Interestingly, 1964 was the year that Cyril Freezer identified as the birth of Modern Image.

I think I might have a Heljan 47 in that XP64 Livery, that is if it hasn't exploded 

P

[vaughan45]

I've heard that there was a RM front cover, possibly featuring an AL electric on the West Coast somewhere, with the headline 'In the Modern Image'.

 

I think you're right, John, to make the connection about the 'last good year for steam' and 'The Modern Image'. XP64 (in 1964?) saw the first application of the new blue/grey coach livery and in 1965 'British Railways' became 'British Rail' (did it not?)

 

Others will no doubt correct me on any of those facts - my excuse was that I only joined the company (BR) in 1986; I had only just been born in 1964!!

 

I remember that one, but not I'm currently in a position to retrieve it from the archive. I seem to believe the layout of the month may have been Mike Coles 'Sundown & Sprawling' which was unusual as it didn't feature any steam. It did have a range of diesels that I think went on to form the basis of his Q Kits range. It also had an article on the XP64 train and around that time some drawings of the new 'modular' Macclesfield station were also included in an issue. I also remember an edition in 1965 which featured a large layout from Chesterfield MRC that featured primarily diesels.

Edited April 8, 2018 by vaughan45

[TerryD1471]

I have just discovered this site. Words cannot express how delighted I am to see such a superb WCML layout taking shape.

My preference in terms of period is the 1950s steam era (late blue via green to early red for the big ones) because the year 1964 didn't just represent the year I was legally allowed to drink, but much more seriously, it was when the last of the Stanier Pacifics were withdrawn at a stroke! Instant depression!

 

Having read through much of the material on this site, I find there is so much to agree with, especially the comments about the excellent 2A boilered 4-6-0s. Sadly from a personal viewpoint, I felt that everything went downhill from about 1959 onwards. The mortification I felt when I stood on Nuneaton station in July 1959 awaiting the passage of the down Royal Scot hauled by a Duchess, only to see a D2xx at its head instead, was abject! AAArgh! I was only mollified a little when the relief down Royal Scot came through shortly afterwards with a lovely green Duchess at its head shaking the earth as it passed.

 

Having been quite heavily involved with Stoke Summit over the years, it is quite flattering to see Shap being spoken of in the same terms; it just goes to show how quality will out!

 

Keep it up!

[Barry O]

It would appear that Mr Pritchard of PECO always said he headlined the phrase "Modern Image". His son did explain how it had occurred but it was a simple statement about the modernisation of the railways.

 

 

Baz

[Clive Mortimore]

It would appear that Mr Pritchard of PECO always said he headlined the phrase "Modern Image". His son did explain how it had occurred but it was a simple statement about the modernisation of the railways.

 

 

Baz

It is a brilliant description of what happened in the 1960s to what was a Victorian railway. But it was a term of the era not one that has now lasted 50 plus years.

[coachmann]

It is a brilliant description of what happened in the 1960s to what was a Victorian railway. But it was a term of the era not one that has now lasted 50 plus years.

Just because modern-image or dieselization began in earnest in 1958, it doesn't mean the term is no longer applicable a mere 58 years later. The preceding steam-era lasted for over 130 years and no one questions the use of that term.