Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Did you use the Lima bogies Graham or replace them with something else?

Replacement Bachmann BR1 bogies, John - so will ride like a pig(!) I had to lower the mounting to achieve correct ride height, which involves gouging out some material from the coach floor above the wheels.

 

I'm only after the shape of the Lima's body ... I always thought that, despite their many shortcomings, the Lima offering did capture the shape of the MkI body shell well.

[Buhar]

Hi Graham, 

What's the advantage of letting the plastic mice loose on the donor body side as opposed to removing the side completely and using the Comet replacement alone? 

Alan 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Replacement Bachmann BR1 bogies, John - so will ride like a pig(!) I had to lower the mounting to achieve correct ride height, which involves gouging out some material from the coach floor above the wheels.

 

I'm only after the shape of the Lima's body ... I always thought that, despite their many shortcomings, the Lima offering did capture the shape of the MkI body shell well.

Thanks Graham. My Limas still have the original bogies. I drilled a big hole in the floor, stuck some 60 thou plastic sheet on top of the hole and drilled a smaller hole in that, so the boss on the bogie was recessed into the floor and the retaining clip fitted the hole in the plastic sheet.

 

Wheels were Gibson with short axles. There is just enough clearance between them and the floors.

 

With Flushglaze and a repaint, they don't look too bad - certainly better than Tri-ang/Hornby or Mainline (except the Mainline RB which was and is superb) which were the only RTR alternatives at the time.

 

I still run a Lima RB on the layout, as well as a Mk1 GUV and some LMS short bogie vans (confession - I didn't change the bogies on those). My Siphons all have replacement Airfix/Mainline/Dapol 9ft plate bogies. I also have some more Mk1s which will run behind "City of Truro" as an excursion from the late 1950s.

[Barry O]

I remembered to take a photo of the Freightliner "Caboose" yesterday

 

 

This was the first design tried..

 

And a shot of a modified DJH 9F by the cottages at the summat

 

 

Cylinders are now in the correct position.

 

Baz

[5BarVT]

If those are the only windows it would have been pretty oppressive in there. No wonder they tried an alternative with a veranda. 

Paul.

[Buhar]

Those cottages at the summit were a Joseph Locke/John Errington (possibly in association with William Tite) generic design, designated Platelayers Cottages. The same design used on the L&C was perpetuated on the Caledonian main line and there are original drawings in the CRA archive at the University of Glasgow, A couple of examples still exist as private houses.

[LNER4479]

16 hours ago, Buhar said:

Hi Graham, 

What's the advantage of letting the plastic mice loose on the donor body side as opposed to removing the side completely and using the Comet replacement alone? 

Alan 

Hi Alan,

I'm retaining as much of the body shell as possible so it will keep its shape. An unsupported thin brass side can easily become distorted, especially over such a length.

 

I do like soldering up coaches from brass kits but that's a completely different starting point so far as I'm concerned.

Graham 

[Jack P]

I have slowly caught up with this thread, from conception up until now. What an absolute masterpiece!!

 

It's certainly inspirational to see work like this, having Grantham and Shap in the same room is a very impressive feat (not just geographically)!

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more!

[LNER4479]

With the fiddle yard as good as finished constructionally, there's now been a serious outbreak of 'lectrickery.

 

Electrical whizz Andrew visited last week for a concentrated wiring up session and, having already talked through what was required, he came armed with every conceivable electrical gizmo and gadget a travelling electrician could possibly need. This is going to be a rather different beast to the almost totally manual Grantham fiddle yard.

 

Here he is, soldering iron all a-blur, happy to make up electronics logic boards as required. Keep your eye on the one bottom centre, with the digital number indicators...

 

I spent Monday morning constructing the master fiddle yard panel, big enough (hopefully) to cater for all Andrew's demands(!) The effort has now moved down to this end with wires starting to appear in serious numbers.

 

My modest contribution was to wires leads to the track. An enticing array of crack LMR motive power is straining at the leash for me to finish. Top to Bottom:

Princess (Barry) on the Birmingham-Glasgow; Jubilee (Barry) on the 'Lakes Express'; Patriot (mine) on a fully fitted; Black 5 (Paul) on the cement train; 9F (Barry) on the Ammonia train.

 

Here is the panel as currently exists. Lots of push buttons. Top left are 'shuffle up' buttons (to take train from back to front of loop); next are the 'draw forward' buttons (to take a train from its fiddle yard road to its departure point (two roads); then on the right are the 'offer to Shap' buttons, which gives an indication to Shap 'box what his next train is.

 

Here is what it looks like from behind! LOTS of wires, together with a bank of relays and a couple more logic boards. The board is designed to fold away flat for transportation - it is mounted on what is part of a hinged pair so it will be snugly sandwiched in between the two when folded away. That's the theory.

 

Here's the REALLY clever bit (well, I think so, as a non-electrician). To the right of the lever frame are now two LED indicators. It doesn't say '73'; it says '7' and '3'. The one on the right is green coloured and indicates the 'train on line' making its way up the bank, from fiddle yard road 3. The one on the left is yellow and is the next train offered from Scout Green (aka the fiddle yard). The really, REALLY clever bit is that the system has recorded which road a train has come out of and has passed that information over. When the Shap signalman pulls lever 3 (his starter signal), this causes the fiddle yard entrance points to fire to set up the route for the correct road. If the green LED shows '3' then the road will be set for road 3. This should avoid the rather too many instances we had first two times out of trains heading into the wrong fiddle yard road, which then caused any amount of angst to untangle.

The bottom pushbuttons below are for the banker return, which sets the road at the entrance to the fiddle yard for the returning bankers (providing the Shap signalman remembers to press them, that is...)

 

Under the boards are further logic boards doing ... er ... lots of clever things I don't pretend to understand.

 

Happiness is a fiddle yard full of trains - all 33 of them. Half way along, we even have an indication of which road is which.

 

Shamelessly copied from 'Sir's Little Bytham, here is what has immediately been dubbed 'the bridge'. Somewhere reasonably safe / handy to keep spare / changeover locos.

 

Talking of trains, let's finish off with the pride of the line. This is (of course) the 1950s 'Royal Scot' in its full  (for the layout) formation - the two Lima conversions standing out, pending their final completion. Tom has treated himself to a latest 46232, as a homage to his original Hornby Dublo 3-rail version from severereal years ago.

 

More trains to follow shortly.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Princess Barry? I can't find that one in my ABC.... nor the Jubilee 'Barry' either.  Named for a previously unknown exotic Windward Isle, or the dump in Wales?

[Barry O]

Its really Lady Patricia.. guess who has a sister with Patricia as a middle name.

The Jubilee was built by the late Geoff Brewin.

 

A lot of hardwork from red leader amd and  Andrew to get it all to work.

And bits of scenic work from Tom and Paul.

No ballasting for me.. and, before you ask it, the fiddle yard doesn't need ballasting!

Baz

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Its really Lady Patricia.. guess who has a sister with Patricia as a middle name.

The Jubilee was built by the late Geoff Brewin.

 

A lot of hardwork from red leader amd and  Andrew to get it all to work.

And bits of scenic work from Tom and Paul.

No ballasting for me.. and, before you ask it, the fiddle yard doesn't need ballasting!

Baz

Go on, you know you want to.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Please don't take this as a criticism, just a thought, but, as nice as the wiring and control system is, could you fault find on it at an exhibition if it started playing up, or does your wiring fiend attend with you? That's one of the reasons I do my own wiring, (not up to your fantastic standard though), so that if if a fault occurs I understand what I have done.

 

Mike.

[LMS29]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

 

No ballasting for me.. and, before you ask it, the fiddle yard doesn't need ballasting!

Baz

 

Barry,

 

with all that electrical wizardry on show we will have more folks looking at the back of the layout than the front........ So you know it makes sense really.

 

Tom

Edited August 21, 2019 by LMS29

[5BarVT]

13 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Under the boards are further logic boards doing ... er ... lots of clever things I don't pretend to understand.

Good choice of connector!  I use them lots on my custom boards too.

Paul.

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Please don't take this as a criticism, just a thought, but, as nice as the wiring and control system is, could you fault find on it at an exhibition if it started playing up, or does your wiring fiend attend with you? That's one of the reasons I do my own wiring, (not up to your fantastic standard though), so that if if a fault occurs I understand what I have done.

 

Mike.

Good question, Mike - perfectly valid, constructive criticism always good.

 

It is indeed a question I repeatedly asked Andrew, ie where's the 'doors to manual' switch?(!)

 

Firstly, he intends to attend as many shows as possible as he does enjoy operating and naturally wants to 'play' with the system he has installed.

 

Secondly - hopefully because of my asking the above question - it all in fact does work manually as I've tried it! So we should never be presented with a situation of total shut down. Even though I make out that I don't understand it, I do after a fashion. We also talked it through in some detail earlier in the year and he has kept pace with the construction of the fiddle yard whilst I have - in turn - put insulators etc in places where we agreed they would go etc. So we have sort of designed it together and I have 'reined him in' in one or two cases where I felt it was getting TOO clever with attendant risk of defeating us in an exhibition environment. We've been friends over 30 years so understand each other quite well in that regard.

 

Of course, this will all be 'famous last words' when you're leaning on a barrier at a show and no trains are running!

[Barry O]

A couple of trains on the "hill""

A lizzie going down the hill.

And a Black 5 going up the hill

 

 

Baz

Edited August 21, 2019 by Barry O

[LNER4479]

Thanks Barry,

 

Here are some of mine, starting in the 1950s era (my favourite!)

 

Here is the 1950s banked goods. This is based on an Eric Bruton 1952 picture which actually has a Patriot at the business end. The Stanier moguls weren't that common but there are a couple of pictures of them on Shap in the Derek Cross book. Out of the box for now, it is a part of a lengthy queue for detailing, etc.

 

The same train seen from the shoving end. Another out-of-the-box loco for now - I intend to do the Stanier 'limousine' cab conversion as this was the norm for the Shap bankers, on account of weather considerations. Both this and its sister Fowler tank turned out to be far too lively for reliable banking, either creating a pile of wagons or spinning their wheels madly. Not to be outdone, I've wired a couple of resistors in series with the motor and - hey presto, well behaved bankers!

 

This is what has happened to the large parcels train. I was originally going to make it a homage to my Dad's cine film of 46256 taking a large parcels train up the bank unaided in 1964. However, in the end it has turned out like this, based on another Derek Cross photo, this time from 1958 - note the blood n custard BG towards the end (needs weathering!), as per the picture.

 

The 'Up' Midday Scot head down the bank. This is my Princess Royal that has featured previously being worked on. I now have the plates and numbers in stock for her to become 46206 'Princess Marie Louise'. Perhaps I should change the emblem to be the earlier one to better match the all blood n custard rake?

 

Not the normal viewpoint but I thought it might make a change to see things from the operators' viewpoint. You can see some of the 'fiddles' from this side of course (not to mention the council rubbish bins!)

 

Quintessential 1950s LMR steam over Shap. This is what the Black 5s were built for in squadron numbers - fast, fitted time-sensitive goods traffic.

 

We haven't seen much at the summit itself so here is the train passing the legendary '916ft above sea level' sign and the attendant 'box. The banker is just out of sight round the corner.

 

The banker drops off (revealing the pusher bar on the rear of the brake van to prevent buffer locking on the curve out of the fiddle yard) as the train accelerates away.

 

Berthed in the siding, awaiting a path back down to Tebay.

 

Next time: your favourite era (1960s)

Edited August 21, 2019 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

What is to become of Manchester Central, seen languishing in the back ground of several recent photos?

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

30 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

What is to become of Manchester Central, seen languishing in the back ground of several recent photos?

 

 

Ready for the southern extension of the layout?

 

Mike.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

What is to become of Manchester Central, seen languishing in the back ground of several recent photos?

 

Aha - that is one day destined for a prominent role in my grand 'layout of a lifetime' that will one day fill the chapel. It will in fact adopt the mantle of 'the rest of the world' where all trains will start and finish. Rather than a bland fiddle yard, having taken several years to build the darn thing, it will all be depicted as a terminal station with adjacent goods yard, loco facilities, etc. Operators who enjoy working a terminal station should have a fine time.

 

The platforms are only currently suitable for 7 coach train but my idea there is to site the station 3 foot away from the end wall and let the tracks run through - the end screen is detachable with such an idea in mind (how about that for forward thinking?).

 

Of course it will be a load of nonsense for WCML trains supposed to be at Euston (although it will fit in nicely for trains over the Midland route from St Pancras ... all two of them!) but - hey - you only have one lifetime and a healthy dose of rule 1 will be applied.

 

Myself and Barry have also threatened to do something with it in conjunction with the Leeds lads for their Chapel-en-le-filth layout. Maybe, one day ...

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

31 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Aha - that is one day destined for a prominent role in my grand 'layout of a lifetime' that will one day fill the chapel. It will in fact adopt the mantle of 'the rest of the world' where all trains will start and finish. Rather than a bland fiddle yard, having taken several years to build the darn thing, it will all be depicted as a terminal station with adjacent goods yard, loco facilities, etc. Operators who enjoy working a terminal station should have a fine time.

 

The platforms are only currently suitable for 7 coach train but my idea there is to site the station 3 foot away from the end wall and let the tracks run through - the end screen is detachable with such an idea in mind (how about that for forward thinking?).

 

Of course it will be a load of nonsense for WCML trains supposed to be at Euston (although it will fit in nicely for trains over the Midland route from St Pancras ... all two of them!) but - hey - you only have one lifetime and a healthy dose of rule 1 will be applied.

 

Myself and Barry have also threatened to do something with it in conjunction with the Leeds lads for their Chapel-en-le-filth layout. Maybe, one day ...

 

 

Hi Grahame

 

It is interesting what you have done with the overall roof. The other day there was another discussion of what I should do with Sheffield Exchange regarding protecting the passengers from the elements. All railways in big cities liked to show they had arrived with a huge and grand building trouble is an overall roof gets in the way. What I am going to do is have the side supporting walls and some columns on the middle platform and no roof.

1. I can get at the trains if need be
2. I can see the trains
3. It places the viewer, normally only me, in the station. I am still a trainspotter.
4. Something less to think about of how I am going to model it.

Please no suggestions it could be roofless following bomb damage during the war. Sheffield suffered badly in the blitz, please go to my thread and read the post from Enterprising Mike and how lucky his mother was.

[LNER4479]

Can't fault your logic Clive.

 

The plan with Manchester Central was to have the central section as a removable section so as you could get inside for photography, uncoupling, etc - but I never got that round tuit thingy in its case. I did get as far as cutting the central arch sections and they have come along with it so I could finish the job one day. FWIW, the roof was four feet long, with the central lift out section accounting for the middle two feet.

 

Of course, I will have this conundrum all over again when it comes to Carlisle's overall roof, not to mention whether to go for the original full roof with impressive end screen or the later cutback version (as exists today). The roof was altered c.1956-7, right in the middle of my time period so I could legitimately have either. Hmm ...

 

Nice to see the old place cleaned up all nice after recent efforts.

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

OK - herewith the second batch of photos from the weekend, this time focussing on the 1960s.

 

Here the Keswick portion of the Lakes Express, scuttling up the bank. Still an all Stanier stock formation well into the 1960s, this is all Barry's work, originally built for another WCML modelling project, I believe. First coach is in fact not quite a Stanier coach, being a re-skinned PdII vehicle. I have to confess that I didn't realise such things existed. Not quite sure what a Midland Division Jubilee is doing on the working, mind ...

 

Here is the car train, now extended to 11 vehicles and thus in need of a banker (now the ex-Crosti 8.5F is fighting against two resistanci in its motor circuit). Comparison with the prototype pictures reveals that Messers Oxford and Corgi are a bit over-zealous viz-a-viz the Ford cars colour palette. It seems that, in the 1960s, you could have any colour provided it was white or a shade of blue-ish grey.

 

At the summit, it's 1967 and a typically filthy Black 5 staggers over with a southbound parcels. This is a 92220 temporary reallocation from Camden, No.44684, one of the later BR-built examples, with top feed forward. Nice weathering job.

 

Meanwhile, droning up the bank is the now ubiquitous Brush Type 4 on a Birmingham-Glasgow train. This loco used to run on Stoke Summit. Summit? Pah!

 

Old meets new as the express emerges from the final cutting.

 

And ...

 

That's all folks for the time being. The layout is already packed away and Grantham set up in its place. Mind you, there is a rather long list of loco detailing work to be getting on with so might pop an occasional update on here accordingly. Otherwise, you'll just have to come and lean on the barriers at Hartlepool, Peterborough, Glasgow, York ...

[Barry O]

Finally finished

 

A period II D1716 Composite Corridor

 

 

 

note how different the other side is

 

Took too long doing the interior...

baz