Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[5BarVT]

12 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

The anonymous 1967 Royal Scot is our only full blue / grey rake, including two of the new-fangled MkII coaches. The times they are a-changing...

Poor thing, the 400 doesn’t know whether it’s coming or going: Down Line, going Up Hill on a Down working with an Up headcode.  Was so much easier when all that was needed was the train class lamps on the front.  I’m sure they’ll get used to this newfangled stuff soon.

:-)

Lovely photos and a reminder of a good day.

Paul.

[Barry O]

Dear Dr Gerbil-Fritters

Once it had been sorted by the preservation year the Duke has displayed flashes of brilliance.

 

Methinks a trip to sort out the Gresley stuff on Grantham may bis next destination. ..

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Poor thing, the 400 doesn’t know whether it’s coming or going: Down Line, going Up Hill on a Down working with an Up headcode.  Was so much easier when all that was needed was the train class lamps on the front.  I’m sure they’ll get used to this newfangled stuff soon.

:-)

Lovely photos and a reminder of a good day.

Paul.

Well spotted. I can confirm that it does carry '1S57' at the other end. Must have encountered a turntable somewhere and got confused...

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Cashmore's, useless heap of junk....

 

 

Was that before or after it went to Woodhams?

 

Mike.

[Gibbo675]

4 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Cashmore's, useless heap of junk....

 

Dr Fritters,

 

When I worked at Riley and Sons we used to call it seventy one million because that is how much they spent on paint and polish !

 

It was spray painted in two pack epoxy and after a rough shunt all the paint on the tender cracked around the rivets where the baffles had flexed the sides of the tank. Their next trick was to tighten the washout plugs with a four foot long extension bar, they were in so tightly we had to heat the plugs up with a gas torch to loosen them, which burned off the paint around the firebox and scrapped all of the plugs. The paint repair bill and the cost of new plugs and the re-tapping the holes was considerable.

 

Brass cab side numbers on a BR Standard, who were they tying to kid ?!?!?

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

21 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Dr Fritters,

 

When I worked at Riley and Sons we used to call it seventy one million because that is how much they spent on paint and polish !

 

It was spray painted in two pack epoxy and after a rough shunt all the paint on the tender cracked around the rivets where the baffles had flexed the sides of the tank. Their next trick was to tighten the washout plugs with a four foot long extension bar, they were in so tightly we had to heat the plugs up with a gas torch to loosen them, which burned off the paint around the firebox and scrapped all of the plugs. The paint repair bill and the cost of new plugs and the re-tapping the holes was considerable.

 

Brass cab side numbers on a BR Standard, who were they tying to kid ?!?!?

 

Gibbo.

It do look pretty....nearly as pretty as a red pannier tank.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

36 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Was that before or after it went to Woodhams?

 

Mike.

 

Before... it was sold to Woodhams but incorrectly delivered to Cashmores, who had a reputation for breaking things quickly.  Fortuitously it was spotted by Maurice Shepherd, former BR fireman, and subsequently redirected to Woodhams who then added it to their 'rainy day' pile.  He can't have known what would happen as a consequence of his bothering to read the delivery labels...

 

Interestingly, the Duke's reputation as a bit of a pup has always been accounted for by construction errors - which are soundly rebuffed by the current custodians on their web site.  

 

'Over the years it has erroneously been stated that the ashpan and draughting design was incorrect which was the reason for the Duke’s steaming limitations. Perhaps, understandably in the circumstances, the idea of a simple cock-up that answers all had its attractions, but this was without foundation. The ashpan as fitted in preservation was built to the original workshop drawing. For good steaming and a clear exhaust it is routinely operated with the rear damper fully closed or just cracked open. Clear testimony the damper area was, and is, more than adequate.'

 

The view seems to be that it was the lack of a properly worked out Kylchap exhaust that did for the Duke.  Apparently 'possibly in the light of patent costs, this advice was ignored and Swindon produced a plain, bifurcated, blastpipe with double chimney.'

 

I've read and partially understood enough Wardale, Durrant et al to understand that this would be a significant performance inhibitor.

 

And now, back to your regular programme.

[Denbridge]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Before... it was sold to Woodhams but incorrectly delivered to Cashmores, who had a reputation for breaking things quickly.  Fortuitously it was spotted by Maurice Shepherd, former BR fireman, and subsequently redirected to Woodhams who then added it to their 'rainy day' pile.  He can't have known what would happen as a consequence of his bothering to read the delivery labels...

 

Interestingly, the Duke's reputation as a bit of a pup has always been accounted for by construction errors - which are soundly rebuffed by the current custodians on their web site.  

 

'Over the years it has erroneously been stated that the ashpan and draughting design was incorrect which was the reason for the Duke’s steaming limitations. Perhaps, understandably in the circumstances, the idea of a simple cock-up that answers all had its attractions, but this was without foundation. The ashpan as fitted in preservation was built to the original workshop drawing. For good steaming and a clear exhaust it is routinely operated with the rear damper fully closed or just cracked open. Clear testimony the damper area was, and is, more than adequate.'

 

The view seems to be that it was the lack of a properly worked out Kylchap exhaust that did for the Duke.  Apparently 'possibly in the light of patent costs, this advice was ignored and Swindon produced a plain, bifurcated, blastpipe with double chimney.'

 

I've read and partially understood enough Wardale, Durrant et al to understand that this would be a significant performance inhibitor.

 

And now, back to your regular programme.

The current owners are mistaken. I remember seeing the then new recreated ashpan at Loughborough alongside the remains of the Crewe built original. It was obvious that for whatever reasons the original had been built with far smaller openings than specified.

[Denbridge]

1 minute ago, Denbridge said:

The current owners are mistaken. I remember seeing the then new recreated ashpan at Loughborough alongside the remains of the Crewe built original. It was obvious that for whatever reasons the original had been built with far smaller openings than specified.

I also have a recollection that this was covered, in detail in an issue of Steam Railway around that time with accompanying photos and text showing the before and after ashpan.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

3 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

The current owners are mistaken. I remember seeing the then new recreated ashpan at Loughborough alongside the remains of the Crewe built original. It was obvious that for whatever reasons the original had been built with far smaller openings than specified.

 

I saw that too.  All very strange.  Suffice to say, no doubt if the mod plan hadn't happened along BR would have sorted it out.  Makes a cracking good noise at speed, so it does.

[Denbridge]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

I saw that too.  All very strange.  Suffice to say, no doubt if the mod plan hadn't happened along BR would have sorted it out.  Makes a cracking good noise at speed, so it does.

Additionally, in BR days the Duke didn't have any form of Kylchap, despite being specified. The blast pipes were not only conventional, they were in effect a twin dean goods set up.

I find it rather sad that the current trust seemingly are re-writing history and whitewashing  the ground breaking work of the original restored, particularly the late Colin Rhodes.

As the A1 trust have stated in the past, the 71000 restoration paved the way for the likes of Tornado and the P2 as well as other "impossible" restorations

[Gibbo675]

HI Folks,

 

Having spent many a happy hour working upon Seventy One Million I can say that the ash pan was of different dimensions to the original and also that the cam profiles were also altered in conjunction to the rearranged blast pipe.

 

Another little known alteration was that the angle of the brick arch was altered to a slightly lower position with an angle closer to the level. I can't however remember the precise values before or after but was similar to the arch of an LNER pacific rather than the position of LMS, SR or BR designed arches.

 

The reason for this was after the blast and cam alterations, the choke area at the rearward tip of the arch was such that it resulted in localised crown sheet effervescence causing the crown stay nuts to become severely burned, scorching of the crown sheet, the reduction through scorching of the rivet heads in the valley laps of the combustion chamber and the reduction of the edges of the valley laps also. The doorplate lap above the fire hole door became quite burned also but most BR Standards do this to some degree or another.

 

All of this caused all manner of leaks to occur, the most serious being the crown stay leaks with the most troublesome being those in the valleys of the combustion chamber which after the rivets had been removed the laps built up with weld and patch screwed back together ended up being seal welded.

 

I remember seeing the crown sheet at washout appearing rather pink with no scale on it which means it must have been quite hot !

 

Bearing in mind that the Merchant Navy class were supposed to have had Caprotti gear Seventy One Million should have had a steel inner firebox with Nicholson thermic syphons. Better still built a BR version of a MN to the original Caprotti concept drawings.

 

Gibbo.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Gibbo675
Spelling

[jwealleans]

Well, that was an interesting read.   What I gleaned from my intermittent and extremely peripheral involvement with the preservation movement always led me to believe that both draughting and the Caprotti gear itself had been altered (and improved) in preservation.

 

Anyway, as any fule kno, what goes down (or in fact Up) must come back up (when working Down).  So here it is. 

 

 

I expect someone will tell me what this bridge is called, because I don't know. 

 

 

Now, as my optician might say, is this better with one sheep....

 

 

... or two?

 

 

 

I liked this one better in black and white as well.

 

 

 

 

It's not all big engines with funny pipework hurtling past on blasted heaths, though.  There are some buildings at the top.  This is the side of the cottages the public can't see - the work of Paul Bolton.

 

 

Opposite a nice composition which implies activity without anyone on scene.   One of the signs of a good layout in my opinion.

 

 

One for Mr. Duck.  I gather he is the author of this rather nice kitchen car.

 

 

This was an accidental piece of parking which I saw and thought was quite nice, so I had them do it again.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

The presence of my wife on the weekend has already been alluded to and it improves the quality of the weekend (and the frequency of refreshments) no end when she accompanies us.  However, she does sneak about with her phone taking impromptu shots of the working bits of the layout and then insists that people want to see them as well.  Maybe those of a nervous disposition should jump to the end.

 

This was Friday.  I can tell by the shirt as well as the expression of intense concentration as i struggled to recall every element of my almost four minutes of intensive training.

 

 

A mug of tea and nothing crashing into anything improves the mood no end, though.

 

 

Things inevitably go wrong or get broken over the course of a show, especially a long show after a long journey.   Fortunately our team of dedicated craftsmen is on hand to effect repairs.

 

 

 

... and it's a great relief when it works again.

 

 

Tom taking advantage of everyone being distracted to slip one of his locos into the queue for a quick bank.

 

 

We're often fortunate to have the assistance of the Loco Doctor himself, although he seems less than impressed with whatever he's been handed here.   Does he really say 'Find the nearest dustbin' to everything he's asked to repair?

 

 

Andrew is responsible for much of the clever gadgetry and was usually at the top of the hill keeping everything in order.

 

 

I'm not sure whatever he's just suggested here has been universally well received, though.

 

 

 

"What happens if I press it here?"

 

 

"Ooh!  It goes!"

 

 

Just as well someone was on hand to record it.

 

 

 

I'm given to understand that all railway photographers are this philosophical when someone drives a train across their picture just as they press the button....

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by jwealleans

[BoD]

16 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

It's not all big engines with funny pipework hurtling past on blasted heaths, though.  There are some buildings at the top.  This is the side of the cottages the public can't see - the work of Paul Bolton.

 

 

 

I travelled up Shap earlier last year and at the top thought, “Hah, there’s the cottages they built based on Paul’s model”

[LNER4479]

12 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

 

That's what happens when someone tells you 'smile!'

[LNER4479]

21 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

HI Folks,

 

Having spent many a happy hour working upon Seventy One Million I can say that the ash pan was of different dimensions to the original and also that the cam profiles were also altered in conjunction to the rearranged blast pipe.

 

Another little known alteration was that the angle of the brick arch was altered to a slightly lower position with an angle closer to the level.

 

(Snip)

 

Bearing in mind that the Merchant Navy class were supposed to have had Caprotti gear Seventy One Million should have had a steel inner firebox with Nicholson thermic syphons. Better still built a BR version of a MN to the original Caprotti concept drawings.

 

Gibbo.

 

22 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Additionally, in BR days the Duke didn't have any form of Kylchap, despite being specified. The blast pipes were not only conventional, they were in effect a twin dean goods set up.

I find it rather sad that the current trust seemingly are re-writing history and whitewashing  the ground breaking work of the original restored, particularly the late Colin Rhodes.

As the A1 trust have stated in the past, the 71000 restoration paved the way for the likes of Tornado and the P2 as well as other "impossible" restorations

Very happy to host such erudite discussions here, chaps. I too have a quiet admiration for the big BR 8P, partly because I was 'around' in the East Midlands in the 1980s as its original restoration was completed at the GCR in 1986 and then it subsequently went mainline in 1989.

 

Tis true that the loco is only with us due to the scrap yard mistake being noticed ... but it was reputedly only ever built at all due to the LMR losing an 8P in the aftermath Harrow 1952. Never being flush with big locos, that at least is often cited as the 'excuse' for the Cox / Riddles / Bond triumvirate to dust down some 'what if' drawing office doodles and produce a loco that was always destined to be a one-off.

 

In the preservation era, little to choose between 71000, 60163 and either of the Duchesses on the big hill (perhaps should also bracket 60532 in that illustrious group). My bias will always be with the big red 'uns - but I suspect No.2007 will raise the bar in a few years time once bedded in. Exciting times.

Edited February 28, 2020 by LNER4479

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

My bias will always be with the bid red 'uns 

 

Me too, a man after my own heart!

 

 

Mike.

[LMS29]

20 hours ago, BoD said:

21 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

 

 

 

 JW,

 

This is the view you get when you get promoted to operating at the Summit and its a great model!

 

Thanks to you and Mrs JW for showing a different perspective to the layout and operating team.

 

Tom

 

[Bon Accord]

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Me too, a man after my own heart!

 

 

Mike.

 

Is that a Clear View screen I see? Never realised one of them was fitted to a locomotive, presumably as some kind of trial before they decided windscreen wipers were a more sensible solution?

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Bon Accord said:

 

Is that a Clear View screen I see? Never realised one of them was fitted to a locomotive, presumably as some kind of trial before they decided windscreen wipers were a more sensible solution?

 

Also fitted to some EM1 Woodhead electrics.

 

Mike.

[PaulCheffus]

8 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Also fitted to some EM1 Woodhead electrics.

 

Mike.

Hi

 

I thought it was some of the EM2s thar were fitted not the EM1s.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Michael Edge]

I didn't know any Westerns had them until now but the first one was fitted to a North Eastern EF1 (No.8) long before the EM2s.

[jwealleans]

I have no idea where I've dredged this snippet from, but something is telling me that two of the Westerns had them.

[Enterprisingwestern]

22 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

I thought it was some of the EM2s thar were fitted not the EM1s.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Correct.

Fat finger syndrome!

 

Mike.