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Hills of the North - The Last Great Project


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1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Many thanks for that; hope you enjoyed the read.

 

Sounds like we're kindred spirits then, at least in the sense of being inspired by the work of said Mr Jenkinson. I sometimes wonder whether modelling LMS/LMR subjects has been quite the same since his passing?

 

It's no secret that I intend to apply The Principles (as they shall henceforth be known) to my Waverley Route conceit.  When I've finished creating the layout space, I should have 9ft by approx 35ft, so folded figures of eight and ruling 1 in 75 gradients feature heavily in my planning brain.  I'm really encouraged by your Swiss cheese approach to filling the space with layout.  The principal contrast will be that I intend a continuous run to be an available default - taking in a few circuits of the room over several minutes.

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22 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's right. All systems, except clockwork, only need (multiples of) two wires.

 

Multiples being the operative word......my 2-wire system:

 

SJPPA28000102191028.jpg.7df1eb0b7476150aa7805f2191580777.jpg

 

(It's better now!).

 

Tony

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7 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

That's just showing off (I think ... ?)

 

Probably!

 

A key difference is that whereas you envisage multiple control positions I started by specifying that everything must be controlable from a single panel; whilst it has given me what I wanted, that decision cost a lot in wiring complexity, not to mention drums of cable!

 

And now I'm trying to build in some duplicate control options to allow others to share the operation - so much for pre-planning.

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This is a photo from a few years ago under the junctions at the north end of our model of Citadel.

t1.jpg.8e29104a01538280c783dad3240623d8.jpg

This is DCC but there's still a lot more than two wires....

You can see the "only two wires" for the track power - red and blue at top right plus black for point motor common. The relays control route setting and signal setting, I'm not sure if all the signals were wired when this photo was taken though.

It is actually quite pleasant working under the baseboards - they are 5ft off the tiled floor so I can sit comfortably on a chair.

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1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Heading up the cavalcade are two old split chassis Mainline rebuilt Patriots, neither of which I envisage being used in their current form. I know that the old split chassis are somewhat frowned upon but these will be 'layout locos' and, in my experience, if you get a 'good' split chassis mechanism, they're perfectly adequate with a splash of oil every now and then.

 

 

 

 

 

I think my two oldest locos that still run decently enough are both Mainline engines - a Collett Goods from 1979, and a Standard 4 from 1980. I bought the latter the same week as Model Railways' Borchester Market special issue came out, and I'm not sure if it's had more than  drop of oil (if that)  in the ensuing decades. 

 

Both start and stop smoothly, about the only downside being that they're a bit whirry-whirry at speed, but otherwise not too bad,

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Your Waverley looks fantastic there - what configuration of Mk1s is the formation made up of? Was it only an 8 coach working in your time period?

 

Continuing to follow with great interest - I really look forward to your updates!

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Hi

 

I'm looking to represent a late 1950s formation there.

'Correct' formation (as per Clive Carter 'Passenger Train Formations - LMS/LMR' for 1960) is:

BSK-SO-SO-SO-RF(LMS)-FK-CK-CK-BSK

 

My formation is:

BSK-SK-SO-SO-RC(LMS)-CK-CK-BSK

 

So not QUITE right and a coach short. However, picture evidence varies - it quite often appears as an 8-coach formation and I'm going to stick to 8 coaches, using the principle of slight compression. However, I'm aiming for FK-CK at the first class end. Not so bothered about SO versus SK, although it should at least be a SO next to the dining car I think. As usual, it's the restaurant car that is the awkward one. As you might observe, that's the ex-Dapol LMS PdII RC (12-wheel) so not strictly correct. HOWEVER, the majority of pictures do seem to show a PdII type, rather than a PdIII (Stanier) type so ... well ... close enough?

 

Meanwhile ....

 

1954 formation (which would of course be all blood n custard)

BTK-TK-TK-TK-TK-RT-FK-CK-BTK

 

Interesting that that's ALL corridor and higher proportion of third class. But of more interest visually is that pictures show Stanier stock (either all or partial) which leads to the rather delightful combination of one of Carlisle Canal's A3s heading off towards the Cheviot Hills with a rake of Stanier coaches in tow.

 

The Waverley is the only principal express passing through Carlisle that I can depict on both its route north and south of the city, so quite an important train for me. In the fullness of time I'd like to have rakes for both eras, but for now it'll be the maroon rake shown (subject to finding a suitable FK!)

 

 

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Is that a Mk1 FK or a Stanier one? For the latter I have two sets of parts to build into coaches... just saying like...

 

Baz

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7 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I have just woken up from a dream in which I was building an O gauge Duchess...

The Dave Andrews kit built one I have seen is a thing of great beauty.. but Red Leader would not get as big a layout in O Gauge than in OO..

 

Baz

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1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I have just woken up from a dream in which I was building an O gauge Duchess...

Quick! Go back to sleep again and let us know how you're getting on...

 

Great dream.

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2 hours ago, Barry O said:

Is that a Mk1 FK or a Stanier one? For the latter I have two sets of parts to build into coaches... just saying like...

 

Baz

According to Carter, the Waverley started to go MkI from 1954 onwards. Certainly, all late 1950s pix show it all MkI (apart from the caterer) in the maroon era.

 

If you fancied building it in blood n custard, however...

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1 hour ago, Barry O said:

The Dave Andrews kit built one I have seen is a thing of great beauty.. but Red Leader would not get as big a layout in O Gauge than in OO..

 

Baz

I do have this one in stock but I think it would be more of a nightmare than a dream...

20200920_193155.jpg

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36 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

I do have this one in stock but I think it would be more of a nightmare than a dream...

20200920_193155.jpg

If I were you, I wouldn't start from there.

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The winter timetable formation for 'The Waverley' north of Leeds in 1962-3 was:

 

BSK-CK-FK-RF(LMS P2)-TSO-TSO-BSK

 

All were Mark 1s apart from the RF.

 

In 1960-1 earlier it had conveyed two CKs. If you go back to the summer of 1958, the catering set was made up of a RS and a CO, as part of a nine coach formation.

Edited by Leander
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Yes - the Carter book just quotes certain years so, if it was a formation that changed regularly (and many did) then it might not be the best 'snapshot'.

 

Some of the (many) pictures I have to hand match those formations you quote.

 

1962/3 is a bit late for me however. For the maroon era, I'm more interested in 1958/9. For pragmatic reasons, I'm happy with a 8 coach, representative rake. The CO is an interesting shout however (coaches in the middle of formations are always the hardest to identify from pictures!)

 

Just had an (enjoyable) look through my various books. It's a predominantly MkI train as far back as 1954. Even the 'classic' Treacy pic of 45573 beneath Wild Boar Fell is MkIs as far as the eye can make out. I've come across one picture so far with an LMS coach in the formation (other than the caterer).

Edited by LNER4479
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41 minutes ago, Leander said:

The roof looks like it's wrong way round Baz.

 

It was..it is correct now but I haven't got an up to date photo...

 

Bas

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What shall we talk about this evening? I know - signal boxes!

 

1959212160_Centralsignalbox(glimpse)2.jpg.e4ca4b8691d3ec8ec088d5cfb4c2ff01.jpg (crop of image from disused stations website)

Well, one in particular - that at Central station. Like many congested, inner city sites, the signal box at Manchester Central was on legs (with trains passing underneath), following a re-signalling exercise in 1935, replacing several mechanical signalboxes with power signalling.

 

779066526_centralstation.jpg.14a13a4ff3c6d23ae0c9a7c2407553cc.jpg

This corner of a damaged image from the ever-excellent britainfromabove website fortunately captures the station throat in the relatively undamaged part of the image, showing the shape of the signalbox and its position relative to the station.

 

SO - despite my Central effectively being a glorified fiddle yard, thought it might be a bit of fun to incorporate this distinctive feature somewhere on the station throat.

 

DSC00535.JPG.490b81114b28b4bc75260071aa4819d7.JPG

So here is a first attempt mock up. It can't really go in the equivalent position of the prototype as my trackplan doesn't suit it. This seems the best place for it - I've tried to replicate the roof shape, based on the aerial view but, as always, it's a compromise (ie smaller that the prototype) and does distort the overall shape a bit.

 

DSC00536.JPG.980c9c04d64abff5e58cd853554df355.JPG

That line beneath is actually the station headshunt - beyond are the main arrival / departure lines. From this side, the elevation is a bit bland; the interesting elevation is the other side, with large windows to look out over the station throat.

 

DSC00534.JPG.c384d55286762261bca091bd703ef32a.JPG

This is the view not normally seen but shows the other side. It also shows the size relative to the stock. There's sufficient clearance beneath, as demonstrated by 45549 ... but not THAT much room!

 

DSC00538.JPG.4b5e5464c6510a20195e139aa21bd0d5.JPG

Meanwhile, I've taken delivery of Central's station designated pilot loco. This loco was shown on 'Sir's thread as 'looking for a good home'. An old K's kit, re-engined with the latest DJH motor / gearbox combo, it has all the 'grunt' and smooth application of power to shift up to 12 coach formations around the station so 'a deal was done' and here she (he) is, patiently waiting for the station works to be complete so she can explore her new surroundings. Although it's a historical anachronism for me, I rather like it in post-wat LMS black so, as its a fiddle yard, I think it'll stay that way.

Meanwhile, standing behind, is another kit built loco which will add a bit of variety. This time 'for services rendered', it was built by a certain Mr Duck of this parish from a Comet kit and is the result of me enjoying myself laying track (and other stuff) at Seaton Junction. It awaits a return to the paintshop for lining and numbering as 44757, a Holbeck engine from new (1948) until 1963 and plenty of pictures of it (can't quite bring myself to call this one a 'her'!) on the S&C towards Carlisle.

 

More soon

Edited by LNER4479
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