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Hills of the North - The Last Great Project


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Interesting...

 

Have you see the attached, Clive? Thought it was an interesting find whilst doing the usual internet trawling.

HI Grahame

 

I haven't seen it before. I have copies of other similar Freightliner information booklets, I think my copies are slightly later versions. I will dig them out tomorrow and scan them if people want copies. Thanks.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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Forgot to say, I was distracted by Lord Bullock Of Abbotswood request for Claytons, just as I was typing the same thing.

 

Hills of the North is going to be a winning layout.  :yes:  It is not complicated by shunting movements which slow big layouts down. :good:  It is prototypical. :good:  It has long trains. :dancer: It is a trainspotters train set. :yahoo:

Dare I say that it will become the LMR equivalent of Stoke Summit?

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Dare I say that it will become the LMR equivalent of Stoke Summit?

 

It had passed my mind. Provided there is a selection of stock running around then the punters should stay for hours.

Yikes - steady on! (thanks, all the same)

 

Interesting to reflect that there doesn't seem to be too many 'watch the trains go by' WCML layouts, least not in the steam era. Settle & Carlisle seems a more popular subject matter in that respect, LMR-wise. Arrowmouth was at Warley and had a nice collection of WCML steam/diesel stock.

 

I think Tony (Wright) quotes 40 trains in total on Stoke Summit. We had 23 at Warley, so some way to go! That having been said, we are - currently - making use of Grantham's fiddle yard for Shap, which is not ideal (but practical given self-imposed short timescale to put the layout together for Warley). With a purpose designed fiddle yard that makes better use of space and an easier flow of trains we could certainly get north of 30 trains in time.

 

The other idea I have is one of a rolling cycle of trains that repeats every hour (say). So, taking the figure of 30, that's 15 in each direction. So you'd have 5 1950's steam (set A), 5 early 1960's transition (Set B) and 5 late 1960's end-of-steam (Set C) in each direction and you'd make your way successively through each batch.

 

In fact, a little subtlety is that you don't need QUITE so many trains in the 'Up' (confusingly, downhill!) direction. The banker dropping back down the hill (in the 'Up' direction!) is a movement in its own right. So, if we bank every third train (which is about what we were aiming for at Warley) then we actually 'need' 6 uphill trains and 4 downhill trains for each timeslot.

 

What d'yer think?

Edited by LNER4479
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I think Tom almost certainly supplied the sheep (Graham?), in which case they will be correct. He takes his sheep seriously.

Indeed he did and indeed he does. They'll be spot on - and they have, indeed, got (flock identification) spots on them.

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Whilst it would take a hell of a lot of stock, fiddleyards the size of an aircraft carrier and enormous expense, I would like to see all periods and eras represented, sort of telling the history of the line through the ages, LNWR onwards.

Now, as this is totally impractical in so many ways, maybe a potted "rolling" history might be achievable?, and I can turn a blind eye to incorrect lineside features.

 

Mike.

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Actually, that's a good cue for a straw poll. What would folks actually like to see at an exhibition?

 

a) 1950's pure steam, mix of blood & custard and maroon. Stanier fleet in full cry; Fowler 4MT bankers

b) early 1960's transition, virtually all maroon. Diesels on some express workings; Fairburn 4MT bankers taking over

c) late 1960's end of steam - as per Warley

 

Personally I'm clearly in camp A, but happy to display the layout in whatever era folks like. We have the stock for any of those eras (give or take)

 

To whet your appetite, couldn't help setting up the following train, at around the time that the full circuit was first up and running. A rough approximation at the Midday Scot. Through WR coach needed at the head of the formation (since acquired) and loco would need an early emblem for a full B&C rake.

Apologies...all three; sorry and all that but I was never 'there' so need the experience(s).

Phil 

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Yikes - steady on! (thanks, all the same)

 

Interesting to reflect that there doesn't seem to be too many 'watch the trains go by' WCML layouts, least not in the steam era. Settle & Carlisle seems a more popular subject matter in that respect, LMR-wise. Arrowmouth was at Warley and had a nice collection of WCML steam/diesel stock.

 

I think Tony (Wright) quotes 40 trains in total on Stoke Summit. We had 23 at Warley, so some way to go! That having been said, we are - currently - making use of Grantham's fiddle yard for Shap, which is not ideal (but practical given self-imposed short timescale to put the layout together for Warley). With a purpose designed fiddle yard that makes better use of space and an easier flow of trains we could certainly get north of 30 trains in time.

 

The other idea I have is one of a rolling cycle of trains that repeats every hour (say). So, taking the figure of 30, that's 15 in each direction. So you'd have 5 1950's steam (set A), 5 early 1960's transition (Set B) and 5 late 1960's end-of-steam (Set C) in each direction and you'd make your way successively through each batch.

 

In fact, a little subtlety is that you don't need QUITE so many trains in the 'Up' (confusingly, downhill!) direction. The banker dropping back down the hill (in the 'Up' direction!) is a movement in its own right. So, if we bank every third train (which is about what we were aiming for at Warley) then we actually 'need' 6 uphill trains and 4 downhill trains for each timeslot.

 

What d'yer think?

Thus, all three eras are your way forward. 3 X 23 = more than Stoke Summit. Who needs a huge fiddle when a Chello of Cassettes will be your friends? Many locos would just need a different tender OR different crests on either side of tender and then run them down or up depending on era. All sorts of tricks could be used. Be Theatrical, but beware which camp (see what I did there?) you favour.

O.V. Bulleid.

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Yikes - steady on! (thanks, all the same)

 

Interesting to reflect that there doesn't seem to be too many 'watch the trains go by' WCML layouts, least not in the steam era. Settle & Carlisle seems a more popular subject matter in that respect, LMR-wise. Arrowmouth was at Warley and had a nice collection of WCML steam/diesel stock.

 

I think Tony (Wright) quotes 40 trains in total on Stoke Summit. We had 23 at Warley, so some way to go! That having been said, we are - currently - making use of Grantham's fiddle yard for Shap, which is not ideal (but practical given self-imposed short timescale to put the layout together for Warley). With a purpose designed fiddle yard that makes better use of space and an easier flow of trains we could certainly get north of 30 trains in time.

 

The other idea I have is one of a rolling cycle of trains that repeats every hour (say). So, taking the figure of 30, that's 15 in each direction. So you'd have 5 1950's steam (set A), 5 early 1960's transition (Set B) and 5 late 1960's end-of-steam (Set C) in each direction and you'd make your way successively through each batch.

 

In fact, a little subtlety is that you don't need QUITE so many trains in the 'Up' (confusingly, downhill!) direction. The banker dropping back down the hill (in the 'Up' direction!) is a movement in its own right. So, if we bank every third train (which is about what we were aiming for at Warley) then we actually 'need' 6 uphill trains and 4 downhill trains for each timeslot.

 

What d'yer think?

Innovation begins...........................

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From an earlier thread, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/6933-br-london-midland-region-1950s-80s/page-2?&&p=69456&&do=findComment&comment=69456

 

I understand these were provided for the guard before the sit in rear cab" was agreed with the unions, they were (nearly) always right behind the locomotive & not on the rear of the train. The brake van container was disliked as it threw the guard around too much.

 

post-6751-12640013547864_thumb.jpg

 

1967 Springs Branch Wigan - you can run brand new 100 ton bogie tank wagons behind a non air braked 9F, provided you have a "fitted head" of a few vacuum braked wagons.

 

post-6884-0-45723300-1357665027.jpg

 

Lots of variety was this era - old & new together !!

 

Brit15

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Last 9F I saw working on the real railway was somewhere near that Wigan photo AFAICR, on tanks, going south. I was on the M1 going north, in a truck cab, during a hitch hike trip, Plymouth to Newcastle (via Carlise as it happens) in the summer of 1966.

Why the 'authorities' did not create a situation where perfectly serviceable 9Fs were converted to oil firing and used alongside diesels around here and the Thornaby area for several more years (say, early 70s?) I just can not understand. Thornaby had that 1958 build Roundhouse and there must have been suitable servicing facilities to accommodate both the 9Fs and diesels in other places? Complete bo##ocks by Marylebone pen pushers; I don't know?

Wasteof Resources MBE 

Edited by Mallard60022
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I'd vote for C.  Something a bit different.  Ideally I'd vote for E (banger blue sparklers).

 

The only real problem I have with this kind of layout is that 2/3rds of the spectacle is missing, and are impossible to replicate.

Agreed. 1/3rd could possibly be created as 'ambiant' sound but the steam loco exhausts and various other 'leaks' are impossible and that is sad. 

Phil

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So you were never a Area Rolling Stock Engineer then? (this job title really did exist!)

 

 

 

The best acronym I ever came across was the pension scheme for the Atomic Energy Authority who I worked for in the mid/late 80s

 

Personal National Insurance and Superannuation Scheme

 

:) :) :)

 

Somebody obviously had a sense of humour that was never noticed !!!!

Edited by D1059
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Yikes - steady on! (thanks, all the same)

 

Interesting to reflect that there doesn't seem to be too many 'watch the trains go by' WCML layouts, least not in the steam era. Settle & Carlisle seems a more popular subject matter in that respect, LMR-wise. Arrowmouth was at Warley and had a nice collection of WCML steam/diesel stock.

 

I think Tony (Wright) quotes 40 trains in total on Stoke Summit. We had 23 at Warley, so some way to go! That having been said, we are - currently - making use of Grantham's fiddle yard for Shap, which is not ideal (but practical given self-imposed short timescale to put the layout together for Warley). With a purpose designed fiddle yard that makes better use of space and an easier flow of trains we could certainly get north of 30 trains in time.

 

The other idea I have is one of a rolling cycle of trains that repeats every hour (say). So, taking the figure of 30, that's 15 in each direction. So you'd have 5 1950's steam (set A), 5 early 1960's transition (Set B) and 5 late 1960's end-of-steam (Set C) in each direction and you'd make your way successively through each batch.

 

In fact, a little subtlety is that you don't need QUITE so many trains in the 'Up' (confusingly, downhill!) direction. The banker dropping back down the hill (in the 'Up' direction!) is a movement in its own right. So, if we bank every third train (which is about what we were aiming for at Warley) then we actually 'need' 6 uphill trains and 4 downhill trains for each timeslot.

 

What d'yer think?

 

Graham,

 

If you want to do this sort of rolling cycle, it maybe best if you made the time spans more than an hour, say one third of the day for each time cycle. The main changes would be motive power and coaching stock and that should be achievable.

 

Tom

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Indeed he did and indeed he does. They'll be spot on - and they have, indeed, got (flock identification) spots on them.

 

I used the same sources of photographic evidence that the team used when designing the scenery and organising the rolling stock.

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I saw 46100 this evening at sunny 36E. It is quite small but very neat. The brave souls gathered were hoping for a run past as it was a bit late, but no it was sidelined in platform one for two minutes. So we then expected a vigorous start away towards Gamston Bank. Nope, it crept away with a couple of short hoots (love those LMS hooters) and we couldn't hear it working at all. Bit disappointing  really as I've still not seen this loco doing its' stuff on the main.

post-2326-0-29260000-1512681351_thumb.jpg

Phil

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Hi

I presume that there's a reason why either 1930s or 40s wouldn't work (putting aside the constraint of assembling the stock)? Sets of crimson lake plus the other type of streamliners would be quite something to watch.

 

David

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  • LNER4479 changed the title to Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

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