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jools1959

Class 28 workings late in their lives

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On 14/05/2020 at 21:42, russ p said:

Never noticed the odd placement of numbers on the blue one, one under the drivers window and the other on the bodyside

I think the numbering position is because of the odd door placement and window configuration. There probably wasn't room for the number under the second man's window

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Posted (edited)
On 14/05/2020 at 21:26, Pandora said:

The only occasion I saw a CoBo at work was at Carnforth in July 1968, the CoBo was hauling a train of  2 axle oil tankers

 

This image from Flick  is a similar working

 

5701 at Grange over Sands with an oil train

 

 

And another also July 1968 - 16.10 Corkickle - Heysham tanks.

 

p1645620539-4.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by stovepipe
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22 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 

And another also July 1968 - 16.10 Corkickle - Heysham tanks.

 

p1645620539-4.jpg

 

 

 

 

Didn't realise derby lightweight had blinds on saloon windows 

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27 minutes ago, Baby Deltic said:

I think the numbering position is because of the odd door placement and window configuration. There probably wasn't room for the number under the second man's window

 

Even when in green livery they had numbers at one end only (the end with the driver's door set back behind a large air intake grille). At the other end the driver's door was so close to the front there was no room for numbers, but the British Railways symbol was placed on the bodyside towards the door at that end. D5701 only differed in terms of number/ logo placement by having numbers at both ends (one end on the cab, one end on the side behind the cab door) and the double arrow centrally on the body side. 

 

I must say it's extraordinary to see these photos of D5701 on oil tank trains - the only ones I'd seen before were on shed or at Crewe works. And the sides don't seem to be liberally sprayed with fuel oil as some of the shed shots of CoBos seem to show. 

 

In terms of allocation of other diesel locomotives into the area, this is somewhat confused by the rundown of steam in the same period. However some of the most notable were the allocation to Upperby of almost new D7671-7677 in 7/67 - there are photos on Flickr of these in the background of photos of CoBos. I had always viewed these, rightly or wrongly, as CoBo replacements. They moved to Kingmoor in early 1968 and like most if not all other types 1 and 2 diesel power allocated to Kingmoor, except the CoBos, moved to the Preston Division (or Longsight in some cases) in mid 1968. Quite a number of class 25s transferred to Kingmoor in late 67/ early 68 but moved away to other sheds in the north west in mid 1968 also. 

 

Of the Claytons, D8500-8534 (35) moved from the ScR to Kingmoor in consecutive batches from late 1967 until the last handful (the highest numbered) in May 1968 - as has been stated they moved to Preston Division in 6/68 and withdrawn within a month or so. These seem to been used on diverse duties but I've seen photos of them working in pairs hauling freight over Beattock. 

 

The other mystery for me about CoBos is the re-engining programme - in which, from captions in photos, a batch was taken to Crewe in the mid 60s and had their engines removed, presumably in readiness for fitting the new ones (which were diverted to the Brush type 2s, emerging engine problems in which, at 263 class members presumably was a potentially much bigger headache to BR than the CoBos) - however these, again from captions in photos, appear to have been towed back to Upperby and parked out of use until taken away for scrap. From BR database, this period out of use does not seem to be recorded (similarities with the ScR NBL Type 2s) until official withdrawal in December 1967. 

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There used to be a Co-Bo parked up in a shed at Swindon in he early 80s, on the other side of the Gloucester line from the Works.  It eventually moved to the East Lancs Railway and is being restored, although I couldn't find any news after 2018.  Hopefully it will run again one day.

 

The only other Co-Bo I have come across was a Canadian type which I think was built for use in Newfoundland but some or all were later sold on to Cuba, which is where I saw one (on my only visit there).  There are also three types of C-B loco in Japan, which are diesel hydraulics. 

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15 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

 

The other mystery for me about CoBos is the re-engining programme - in which, from captions in photos, a batch was taken to Crewe in the mid 60s and had their engines removed, presumably in readiness for fitting the new ones (which were diverted to the Brush type 2s, emerging engine problems in which, at 263 class members presumably was a potentially much bigger headache to BR than the CoBos) - however these, again from captions in photos, appear to have been towed back to Upperby and parked out of use until taken away for scrap. From BR database, this period out of use does not seem to be recorded (similarities with the ScR NBL Type 2s) until official withdrawal in December 1967. 

 

Yes D5704/9/10/13 were returned from Crewe unserviceable in Spring 1967.

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10 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 

Yes D5704/9/10/13 were returned from Crewe unserviceable in Spring 1967.

 

Interesting they weren't officially withdrawn until 12/67 - presumably a BR edict? 

 

A further pair were withdrawn early in 1968 and the remainder in 9/68. The pattern of withdrawals does seem to suggest D7671-7 may have been replacements. 

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Not sure, probably a year end accounting thing - they weren't the only class to have that withdrawal date, and the national traction plan was beginning to be implemented too.

 

I understand the author of the recent NBL type 2 book is working on a similar volume for the Co-Bos, so we may discover more details in time.

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1 hour ago, MidlandRed said:

 

Even when in green livery they had numbers at one end only (the end with the driver's door set back behind a large air intake grille). At the other end the driver's door was so close to the front there was no room for numbers, but the British Railways symbol was placed on the bodyside towards the door at that end. D5701 only differed in terms of number/ logo placement by having numbers at both ends (one end on the cab, one end on the side behind the cab door) and the double arrow centrally on the body side. 

 

I must say it's extraordinary to see these photos of D5701 on oil tank trains - the only ones I'd seen before were on shed or at Crewe works. And the sides don't seem to be liberally sprayed with fuel oil as some of the shed shots of CoBos seem to show. 

 

In terms of allocation of other diesel locomotives into the area, this is somewhat confused by the rundown of steam in the same period. However some of the most notable were the allocation to Upperby of almost new D7671-7677 in 7/67 - there are photos on Flickr of these in the background of photos of CoBos. I had always viewed these, rightly or wrongly, as CoBo replacements. They moved to Kingmoor in early 1968 and like most if not all other types 1 and 2 diesel power allocated to Kingmoor, except the CoBos, moved to the Preston Division (or Longsight in some cases) in mid 1968. Quite a number of class 25s transferred to Kingmoor in late 67/ early 68 but moved away to other sheds in the north west in mid 1968 also. 

 

Of the Claytons, D8500-8534 (35) moved from the ScR to Kingmoor in consecutive batches from late 1967 until the last handful (the highest numbered) in May 1968 - as has been stated they moved to Preston Division in 6/68 and withdrawn within a month or so. These seem to been used on diverse duties but I've seen photos of them working in pairs hauling freight over Beattock. 

 

The other mystery for me about CoBos is the re-engining programme - in which, from captions in photos, a batch was taken to Crewe in the mid 60s and had their engines removed, presumably in readiness for fitting the new ones (which were diverted to the Brush type 2s, emerging engine problems in which, at 263 class members presumably was a potentially much bigger headache to BR than the CoBos) - however these, again from captions in photos, appear to have been towed back to Upperby and parked out of use until taken away for scrap. From BR database, this period out of use does not seem to be recorded (similarities with the ScR NBL Type 2s) until official withdrawal in December 1967. 

 

I thought the proposed engine for the re engine project was the English electric 8CSVT ? Not the 12SVT in the 31

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, russ p said:

 

I thought the proposed engine for the re engine project was the English electric 8CSVT ? Not the 12SVT in the 31

 

Ive seen both stories suggested - I guess we will have to wait until the full story has been uncovered in the archives - in this context, and if his NBL Type 2 book is anything to go by, a CoBo book by Anthony P Sayer as indicated by Stovepipe might be very interesting and bring forward more information. 

 

My own guess is the scheme was abandoned as a result of the National Traction Plan, the first version of which appeared in 1965, at which point and subsequently it was realised that there would be a surfeit of motive power in some categories - hence giving up on some of the more spectacular failures and non standard types. 

 

The CoBos spent periods in store during their lives (some examples more than others) so understanding the full picture would be very interesting (as it has been with classes 21/29). Class 84 was another which disappeared into storage in 1967 - however I recall various members, if not the whole class being parked in Witton coal yard, Birmingham for a period in the early 60s, reportedly for rectification/ modification work performed by people from the nearby GEC works.  

 

In the context of why four members of the CoBo class, despite having been out of operation for a considerable period were not officially withdrawn until 12/67, I have a vague recollection that BR, still operating steam locos, was not keen to draw attention to the fact it had u/s modern traction on it's hands until the final knockings of steam. The removal of D prefixes after steam may have also been rooted in a PR (we have now fully modernised and got rid of steam) rather than operational ethos also (electric locos still had E until tops renumbering - 81-86 did overlap with class 08, and 71 with 24, but class 76 did not) . 

Edited by MidlandRed
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Posted (edited)

I have been following the Cobo loco history for several years,  I recall reading a story from the shedmaster at Barrow,  who considered the locos to be as reliable as other BR classes around.

I find this believable as  with the right duties for the locos, shed fitters and drivers would get to grips with the locos and how best to work them.

The early withdrawals of 12/67 were  (I think) those which had been sitting at Crewe Works for months, possibly 18 months or more.

Edited by Pandora

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I'm sure I read somewhere that the Co-Bo's were trialled on Peak Forest-Tunstead workings with the infamous ICI Hoppers. That would certainly have put them nearer to Crewe works where they seemed to be every time I visited, at least six usually.

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In the mid 90s I was learning the cumbrian coast and some of the old boys had worked on them , they reckoned they were well built,  warm and rode well but reliability of the engine was terrible virtually every shift you would have to do something with it even if it wasn't a total failure 

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1 hour ago, BrushVeteran said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Co-Bo's were trialled on Peak Forest-Tunstead workings with the infamous ICI Hoppers. That would certainly have put them nearer to Crewe works where they seemed to be every time I visited, at least six usually.

 

Yes I think there were two periods of trials, circa 1964, but it was very short lived and only involved one pair of locos each time.

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