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greenglade

4472 Flying Scotsman 5"

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Given the weighshaft will be static most of the time perhaps there is no problem with the steel shaft is running in steel bushes. It's also a huge bearing area. I can't see you'll have a problem!

 

Really great work, it looks excellent.

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Given the weighshaft will be static most of the time perhaps there is no problem with the steel shaft is running in steel bushes. It's also a huge bearing area. I can't see you'll have a problem!

 

Really great work, it looks excellent.

 

Thanks dajt....as you say there's not so much movement on the weighshaft in comparison to other cylindrical applications...i was thinking more along the lines of corrosion getting in hence why I'm going to add the oil cup. It's probably not needed but the prototype has it so I'll do the same.

 

cheers

 

Pete 

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Pete, what a fabulous build thread, am following with great interest.

 

PS all I have to do now is read your thread on ME Clearing house all 121 pages WOW, I'm no engineer but i love the subject so i registered today user name johnf, although i doubt i will post anything hense my username on here :)

 

Best Regards and look forward to your updates.

 

Grasshopper John.

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Thank's John...hope you enjoy the read...I need to update the index for the last few months but it's not too out of date...that particilar forum is very good with many published members involved...

 

Regards

 

Pete

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Continuing with the weighshaft bearings....

Next job was to profile the bearing to match the expansion link bracket, I did this by bolting the two together, secured in a vice, filed and finished off with a sanding drum on the Dremel..

Here's the before picture...

2V547Aol.jpg

And after....

NgVQ9Nil.jpg

That's it to drawings but the prototype has a prominent oil cap sitting on each bearing collar so this has to go on. After giving this a little thought and looking at the small size I decided to make these as 'dummies'. The have them practical wouldn't achieve much due to where they sit on such a long bearing, therefore I'll use something more suitable for lubrication, as to what will have to wait until much later, there are a lot of modern options these days that would do the job much better. 
So having made the decision to include these oil cups I first needed to drill their mounting holes. To keep both sides the same I bolted the bearings together 'back to back' with a length of 5/16 steel through them to keep things aligned. Picture shows the first side being center drilled, this was followed with a 1.4mm drill and tapped 10BA.

wRUyjltl.jpg 

My apologies for the quality of the next picture, this is the oil cup that I need to represent, I have no drawings so going by eye. You may notice that this picture does not look like the bearing that I'm making, it's not. This is 4472 as she is today fitted with the later A4 designed expansion link bracket which incorporates the bearing in it's design, it's a stronger design which all A3's were later changed too, as I'm building an A1 in '39' I need to stick with the original design. For those interested in building an A4, Don includes accurate drawings for both designs with 'Doncaster'


pXtGpKdl.jpg


This is probably about the smallest thing that it's practical to make on my lathe, I should use the 'Unimat' for these type of jobs but gave it a go anyway. Picture shows the cup profiled and the thread cut with a die. I did this by hand as my first attempt using the tail stock holder was too much for such a small thread in brass, it snapped...lol I surprised myself by how easily I got the die square to the part with no porblems, who needs a tail stock holder....smiley.png

V0Qq7CYl.jpg

I halved a couple of 10BA brass nuts and drilled through them so that they slipped all the way up to the collar, looking at this picture now I can see that this nut has rounded during me failing to hold it properly while drilling, the other side is fine, I'll replace this nut later, I have a lot of fettling jobs to do later as they get fitted to the painted frames..smiley.png

HgUYSRMl.jpg

Lastly a picture to show both sides...

UQzgQ7ml.jpg

I need to try and source drawings for the expansion link bearing oil cups now, these will be practical, I don't recall seeing them on Don's drawings but will have another look to check. In the mean time I'll prep the frames ready for primer and just go over everything one more time in case I've missed something that should be done to the frames first.

Thanks for looking in guys...

regards

Pete


 

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Evening chaps

I have two photo's for this evening and they show that I am taking a different direction over the next few weeks for the build. I am going to add paint.. yipee, about time...anyway this decision has been made for me in a way as yesterday I was kindly asked to attend this years Bob Todd LNER memorial day, some of you probably know of this and may attend. This will be my third consecutive year for which I feel most privileged. I actually use this meet as a bar to measure how much I've progressed during the past year. This year the event is a month early so I best get a move on if I want to get some paint on and get her presentable for the day.

As i said i have two pictures, the first is of 1470 Great Northern iirc 1922 having her frames erected, for thos who don't know LNER metal she was the first of Gresley's famous pacific's. This picture isn't of very good quality , I have seen much better but can't find it now but it's good enough to set the scene. Except for the saddle and expansion link brackets this is where my frames are today, stripped down ready for paint.

Mvayy0Wl.jpg

and here's my model, I have tried to take this picture from a similar position. This shows why I love Don's design so much, except for the boiler internals which are governed by physics his design is basically a miniature of the full size in every sense of the word and that's what makes me tick. Of course he doesn't go into super fine detail but that leaves plenty of scope for the builder to make their own mark, using Don's 'Doncaster' as a starting point along with works drawings where needed can get you very close to a true miniature of this most beautiful of locomotive designs, IMHO of course...I like all steam loco's

6DbwV3hl.jpg

Hopefully by this time next month I'll have a lot of her in paint and back together, I'll paint the wheels but not sure if I'll have time to line them, we shall see. Most of what's got to go back on needs the final 'finishing' touch so it will take time, I for one can't wait...smiley.png

More soon chaps..

Pete

 

Edited by greenglade
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thanks John.. I had to go back and check what stage that was...more than 4 years ago... 'front bogie' and just before the start of the marathon drilling session of the main frames...glad you've enjoying it.. not sure about it being the end though.. I would say more like the half way point... :)

 

Pete

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continuing with the strip down, for tonight this involved the trailing frame assembly and the front bogie. It's only when you start to take things apart after being together for a few years that you begin to remember the copious amount of component parts this involved. I must be mad...smiley.png

Here's the trailing frame assembly, it's great that I discovered early on that I can remove this as a single unit but of course it all needs to come apart for painting.

SQpVLuJl.jpg

Then it's the front bogie's turn and this was a lot of work, I had to literally split the frames to remove the sideways spring control system incorporated in this part and everything that needed to be removed first. I had an issue here, one of the spring hangers refused to come undone, I tried everything including soaking it, I didn't want to use heat as the shock absorber is too close with it's rubber internals so I bit the bullet and cut it off. I'll make a new one later, it's a simple turning job. I guess this was a result of having 4472 out on track last year when it rained, as she's not painted yet nothing has been oiled, I will be able to address this soon once she's in paint, including all of the axle oil pads which are still dry.

DDbNa2Rl.jpg

Lastly, the 'sum of the parts' ....as can be seen the trailing frames and bogie are now in primer. Also the frame yoke for the bogie which I had forgotten to refit back to the frames before applying the primer. I think all of the parts are in this picture except for the trailing wheels.

ZHF59WLl.jpg

The thinners arrived today although it may not be until Monday when I can apply some paint...we shall see...

Thanks for looking in guys..

Pete

Read more: http://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/5733/building-don-youngs-doncaster?page=122#ixzz5GRv0IWjW

Edited by greenglade
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This project is a tour de force, it looks like you have captured both the spirit of the Scotsman and the engineering involved even to build the real train. I hope it can go somewhere where it will be looked at and admired.

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This project is a tour de force, it looks like you have captured both the spirit of the Scotsman and the engineering involved even to build the real train. I hope it can go somewhere where it will be looked at and admired.

 

 

She will be exhibited at some point in the future and will visit tracks around the country although most of the time she'll be hauling passengers at my local model engineering club, North London Society Model Engineers......she'll certainly get seen...:)

 

cheers

 

Pete

 

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Good evening everyone..
just a couple of pictures tonight to finish off this weeks progress, first up was to remake the bogie spring hanger that I had to sacrifice yesterday, this only took a few minutes this morning so no big deal, this was done the same as the others some years back. 

RhI2Ntbl.jpg

And this is how far I have got in preparing parts for painting. I'm not going to take anything else apart until some of this has been put back together, I'm already into a few hundred parts,bolts,nuts which I need to remember how to put back so will be cautious and leave it at that for now. So there is now primer on 3 wheel sets, that's a first, most other parts of been primed except for the trailing suspension, I'll leave that until later. The length of steel in the foreground is the part machined weighshaft. There's a story to this, I couldn't find and 5/16 silver steel in my stock so asked my son if he had any at work. He had silver steel but not imperial, they only work in metric so he suggested that he could grind some 8mm down for me. i had an idea and asked could he CnC the whole shaft for me which would save me time on setting up for machining the square ends. I sent my son a drawing with metric dimensions and after a discussion I decided to leave the threaded ends and just ask for the square sections to be extended so that I can machine/cut the required 3/16x40 threads later, That was two days ago and this afternoon this turned up, it fits the bearings perfectly and the distance between square ends is spot on so I'm happy, I'll probably finish this off next week.

wnJ46iLl.jpg

So that's it for this week, next week I hope to get some colour onto the frames, my eldest son is dropping off some mixing cups,paper roll, masking tape and a polythene roll to create a dust free area. I'll start with the red, let that cure and then do the black. The paint will need some time to cure between colours...4 days or so for the colours and some weeks before attempting any lining, in the mean time I have plenty of other bits to do..

Should have more to show next week guys...cheers

Pete

Read more: http://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/5733/building-don-youngs-doncaster?page=122#ixzz5GXLX01Bv

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Evening all

Well tonight see's 4472 with the first bit of colour, yes I managed to get paint on the inner frames. It's a little warm for enamel's really but I left it till late afternoon and got the paint on.
Before that I needed to make a temporary spray booth. I made this up from a roll of poly sheet, some timber, use of the garden apple tree and BBQ housing....took about half an hour to arrive at this contraption....I have to say it worked well keeping the wind out.

YWlXyrFl.jpg

Here's the underside which I did first, I masked up general areas to keep any overspray down, I also masked up the lightning holes and the front roughly where the red/black divide is. The brake trunnions and spring brackets which will be black I left unmasked, these will be over painted once the red is fully cured. A gave this about 3 coats and left to dry for a few minutes...

lqIureql.jpg

I then turned the chassis over and did the top....I actually repeated the process twice..

bvQtl2Ml.jpg

Once the paint was semi dry, I took the chassis back into the workshop and removed all of the tape, not too much overspray which makes life a little easier for prepping before adding the black. I'm very happy with the result, no runs and good coverage all over. You can't do the usual practice of spray before reaching the job and stop after making the pass, there's a lot of quick blasts involved due to all the parts and their difficult to get at crevices...of course the buffer beam was simple spraying..smiley.png The brass strip in the foreground is a test piece, I'll use this to test for when the paint has hardened enough for masking and painting the black. I'll take a closer picture to show the finish later, it's not easy fitting frames this long into the lens...

qHxIYEWl.jpg

And I also got the bogie and trailing axles in red too, once these are fully cured I'll add the green....

UF1vVuml.jpg

So some exciting times ahead, we have warm weather for the next two weeks so once cured I'll be able to get on with the black...I'm looking forward to it...smiley.png

regards

Pete



 

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I posted this picture on my FB timeline earlier so best post here as promised before I forget. Here's a close up of the red, looks even better in the morning light so I'm happy. While this cures I'll make a start on the copious amount of parts that need painting in satin black. If I find time I'll do this late afternoon.

MmSRKGRl.jpg

I have to say that I'm very impressed with the professional synthetic thinners that I've used,(lucky buy on eBay from a car paint specialist) the paint is not only dry but takes masking tape too?...don't worry, I won't attempt any masking of the actual chassis until the paint's had a few more days to cure. Better still a 5 ltr can is cheaper than a 1ltr tin from Phoenix paints and it was post free too......smiley.png

Pete

 

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Post free? I didn't think you could/should send solvents through the post.

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Post by greenglade on 3 minutes ago
Continuing with painting the frames I have spent this afternoon painting most of the smaller parts..i didn't manage to paint anything yesterday due to the torrential rain that we had here in London. It totally destroyed my makeshift spray booth, no surprise there considering how heavy the rain was. Whilst looking at the damage and cursing the weather my wife said why don't you just use the BBQ hut? Women are so clever aren't they.. well in my defence I hadn't suggested this before as I thought that she wouldn't have approved.. Anyway, it took little time today to move some gear out (the BBQ itself is away on lone) and wrap some new ploy around the hut, no storm is goinmg to move this hut..smiley.png Here's the end result..

9heDtVMl.jpg

And the parts that have now been sprayed in semi-black.. bogie, trailing frames and expansion link brackets...

VTZ4kpzl.jpg

Bogie: guard irons, front and rear stays, front and rear spring control shields, front shield protectors. Cartazzix: axle boxes, oil trays, front covers, horn stays and cab steps. The bogie shield protectors have been re-profiled to match the type for the late 30's,(details found after i'd made them)basically the inner bottom corners were rounded off. 

FCl2FlLl.jpg

With the next picture I had a small error, well error of judgement really, I thought that I would hold these in the small spray booth seen in the last picture and paint them there. Bad idea as I had no room to move and couldn't get enough space between gun and part without covering everything on the outside with paint. This resulted in a run and so I stopped after one light coat. I'll go back to these tomorrow if dry enough and paint them outside as I should have in the first place.

RTMcHdCl.jpg


Talking of paint drying I took another look at the test piece in red, I added another tape which is extremely sticky...I then peeled both tapes back half way which is what's shown in the last picture for this evening, as you can see the tape has had no effect on the paint. I then tried a piece on the chassis itself in an unseen spot, still no mark so I'm taking that as it's dry enough for the next stage. I'm leaving it anyway for another full night and tomorrow I'll begin taping over the red and hopefully get the black on by late afternnon, assuming that is that the rain stays away..I think there's another thunderstorm forecast so we shall see..

AFIxDSql.jpg

There are a few small blemishes on the black but I'm not really worried about this, it's the chassis and it's a dull black anyway, they may well disappear once the paint drys and looses it's sheen. All being well I'll give one more update end of the week with chassis in both black and red...Next week I should be able to put a few bits back together but not anything that needs lining, this will have to wait a number of weeks to ensure the pain isn't effected by white spirit when tidying up any of the lines if needed.

more soon guys

Pete


 

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Evening guys...last update for this week....painting is progressing well..first job was to sort out the runs on the wheels from when trying to do the first coat in far too small an area. This paint/thinner mix dries pretty quickly ( note that the semi-gloss paint takes longer) which meant I could rub down the offending parts using 1500 grit and plenty of water. I had kept a latex glove over the mixed paint from the first coat which I now put to good use. I first gave each wheel set a few coats and then left then to dry for five minutes to give the paint time to grab. I then took each in turn and gave the front face a heavy coat of paint immediately holding the axle upright to let said coat flow and flatten. I happy to say that this resulted in all six wheels having nice flat high gloss faces. There's a couple of dust particles but nothing that will really show, most probably hidden when the lining is done. When it comes to painting the boiler/cab, tender etc I'll ask my son if I can do the painting at his car spray booth with it's full filtration gear, I don't want any dust on these very prominent surfaces. I'll leave the lining for a while, I need to make a jig for this first anyway

HEGXpAGl.jpg

I then began to reassemble the bogie, the suspension was stripped/cleaned and reassembled, learning from the 'spring hanger' saga I used a clear grease this time around. Suspension is now back on the frames, sideways spring control is fitted too..I need to paint up the various bolts before I can refit the other parts. I forgot to say on the wheels that the axle boxes are back in place and that the oil pads have now been primed with oil. The oil cups that I added to the bogie suspension which feed oil to the axle boxes will be left dry until the bogie is finished.

bHADtryl.jpg

The frames are progressing well, here's an overall view to show how they look, the unpainted area between frames is where the middle cylinder sits.

4yIyJMql.jpg

The last picture for this session shows a closer view between the frames...I hand painted the various hangers and liked how easy this paint flows from the brush, it blends in with that from the spray gun very nicely. nothing has been put back on the frames yet, I'll leave it a few more days to dry, I was tempted to put the expansion link brackets back on but thought better of it as this would probably make taking them apart again in the future very difficult as the paint will act as a glue.

kQL5YX6l.jpg

That's it for this week, next week I'll finish reassembling the bogie, I need to make a new pivot bolt to replace the temporary brass one made a few years back and prime and paint the remaining small parts for the trailing axle..

thanks for looking guys..

Pete



 

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This is very impressive Pete - thoroughly enjoying following this. Where did you get all the plans from? I'm probably living in a fantasy land, but this would be a cracking little project for me (probably a good 20 years down the line somewhere though!)

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 Just found this excellent build thread, I'm a retired engineer myself and have to say your quality and attention to detail is of the highest order. Many years ago I began work on an 0-6-0 but gave up and passed it on to someone else after the chassis was built and built a 00 V2 from a kit intstead. Looking forward to seeing this come together.

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Thanks chaps....

 

jdb82.......The model is based around the late Don Young's 'Doncaster' 5" design, a well known name in model engineering circles, probably the best from any era. I am using his drawings along with works drawings/photo reference for the extra details. Don's drawings are superb and follow the prototype very closely, this isn't surprising considering he was a qualified draftsman and served his railway apprenticeship at Doncaster works were he worked directly on these beautiful locomotive's. It's not  little though, tender and loco together are approx 81" long and weigh in at 230lb, she's already too heavy for me to lift alone. 20 years is probably close to the time that it will take me to build from start to finish though.

 

thanks again for the kind words guys... ;)

 

Pete 

Edited by greenglade
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Evening all...todays update is a mixture of painting, putting things back together and a little machining

First picture shows most of what's left to go back on now painted, some have had a recoat as I wasn't happy with the finish, for these smaller parts I used a Badger 150 instead of the HVLP gun that I had used for the larger items. I have now painted the cartazzi springs and all of the various bolts ready for putting everything back together.

qJX2AUvl.jpg

The front bogie is going back together nicely.....trailing frame will need lining before any of that goes back together...

DKehZtRl.jpg

Expansion link brackets and their related weighshaft bearings are now bolted to the frames..

4YLGzESl.jpg

Lastly for tonight the machining part... I have removed the temporary 5/16 support between the expansion link bearings, turned up suitable 5/16 bearings to fit from 8mm bronze bar, drilled and reamed them 7/32 for the link pins when fabricated. I couldn't find a drawing for these bearings in Don's sheets, nor any mention of them in his notes? I thoughte that I had read about them before but certainly couldn't find anything today or for that matter over the weekend either? No problem, the link pins are drawn as 7/32 dia and as they are only plain bushes I turned them up making them slightly proud of the width of the bearing housings. Some may remember the oil pot holes in these which are tapped 8BA (still hoping to find info for the pots themselves) I have taken advantage of these and rather than risking damage to the bracket with drift fitted bearings I have made them a sliding fit, no play, just a nice fit within the hole so that I don't damage them trying to drift close fitting bushes. To ensure that these can not move in operation I have continued the tapped 8BA hole through them so that the oil cups when fitted will keep everything as it should be. For now I have fitted 8BA bolts securing a short length of 7/32 silver steel to protect the bracket from being knocked and putting the bearings out of line.

FqqQv1al.jpg

thanks for reading chaps

Pete
Building 5" g

 

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Excellent work Pete - enjoying following this!

 

Regards,

 

IanT

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Are you then going to cover this in muck and weather it when you've finished?(only joking).

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Yes...although it will be real muck from steaming...exactly the same as full size...I'll polish/clean it often though....:)

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