greenglade Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 Thanks, guys.. well, I promised more photos today, this time there are 7 as I try to take various shots down the length of the model plus a couple closer up. I didn't manage to get the smokebox and boiler back on today as hoped but I have been busy nonetheless. Job's done are to finish off the cab side sheets where the draincock and gravity sander bolts go through, these have now all been filled, sanded, and primed. Unlike today there are very few bolts/rivets showing on the outside of the side sheets other than the row below the windows which hold the window runners on. Today, FS seems to be plastered with extra bolts/rivets all over the cab, she was much more a speed machine with little sticking out during the first 15 years of her career. I also painted the steam sander filler tubes which I'll fit tomorrow. I have now fitted most of the small hex 10BA bolts that hold the front running boards on, I haven't fitted all of the 10 BA CSK screws down the length of the running boards yet, I'll leave those until last in case I run out of time. The nameplates have been refitted and for the first time, the now painted/lined cylinder cladding sheets have been fitted. I have touched in some of the marked paintwork but still have more to go, most of the black is done in the various depths of satin shine, there are 3 different levels of satin on the model. I have included a close-up of the nameplate, not to show the plate so much but to point out the brass trim, here you can see how it's not wide enough to cover the splasher trim. My fault as briefed yesterday, all is in hand though and Ed (MEL) will get them sorted once he's back from hols, at least the photo gives an idea of how it will look when fitted with the correct sized trim. All being well I hope to have the boiler refitted tomorrow, we shall see... NB: It seems that I wasn't paying attention when fitting the nameplate, I'll straighten it up tomorrow. I'm afraid the photo's are upside down again..lol... also I can't post all as it goes over the limit.... 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 This one at least should be the right way up... 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 4, 2021 Author Share Posted August 4, 2021 Today's progress on reassembly ready for the weekend.. Pete 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 Reassembly continues.. only one photo worth showing today but it does mean another tick in a box. After having a great day at the club, after returning home I found a couple of hours tonight to do a little more. I had to remove the upper running boards as I had forgotten to screw the saddle down, it's a pretty tight fit anyway but playing safe I have fitted a couple of screws on either side for peace of mind. After replacing the boards I then fitted the main steam pipe covers, as with most of the other reassembled parts I have only used a few screws.. no point in a total screw down as it's all got to come off again. I also paid a little more attention to the cab, I thought it would be a nice touch to give the roof a coat of satin black, it will be redone properly when I finish the cab (lots of detail work to be done there still) but it adds a little definition to the cab rather than just grey all over. Things are looking promising for Saturday, the weather is a concern as although the motion has been oiled the model is far from protected from the elements. George the organiser for this year has kindly offered to find a place for the model up at the station where it will be under cover. The added bonus to this idea is that it won't get covered in ash like in previous years from sitting in the steam bay all day... with this, in mind I may take the display track to sit it on, we shall see. So jobs lefty to do tomorrow, fit the cab and connect the two cab levers to their various cables/rods, clean the tender (not touch for a few years and very dusty) touch in a few gloss black marks on the wheel centre's and lastly give the entire model a clean...I think that's everything... Photo for tonight is to show the main steam pipe cover fitted, I have, of course, chosen the R/H side with the ejector elbow for added interest. Pete 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 6, 2021 Author Share Posted August 6, 2021 Hi guys I have now got the model to where I can say she's ready for the event tomorrow, since it's a given that these photo's will all show upside down I won't post the actual photos, if like me it probably does your head in trying to look at them. However, all is not lost, I also filmed a short video shows the details with another walk around. I think it's safe to say the video link will be the right way up...:) pete 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) good day all A few photo's from yesterday's club event, managed to take these during the short breaks between the rain when the sun did show itself... Pete Edited August 8, 2021 by greenglade 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 a short video Just to show that gravity sanders do work in 5" even on a dreadfully wet and damp day...:) Pete 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 Evening all.. I've decided that my next task is to set the chassis up as well as I can at this stage in the build, there will be a fair bit more weight added but it shouldn't involve too much work in adjusting the springs to suit. Going by the current weighbridge results I have a fair amount of playing around to get the chassis balanced. Why do this now I hear? simple, during transit on Saturday I broke a top leaf spring on the left-hand side trailing axle. All my own fault, I had tightened the spring hangers to the max to bring the weight down at the rear for when fitting the pistons/rods so that I could roll the chassis without needing to push down hard on the rear to get the chassis level, what I forgot to do was loosen the springs when the boiler was fitted and thus putting them under a lot of stress, with zero movement left in the spring during transit it was inevitable that hitting the first pothole would not end well. Some may recall that I have slowly been replacing steel for Tufnol on the rear Cartazzi springs as the weight increased and I had a better idea of how much springing I need. Going back even further into the build when the springs were first made, it took over 100lb to get the springs to sit at their ride height, clearly, the springs were far too strong but I left for the reason above. So with all the weight greatly increased and suffering a broken spring ( only took an hour to make a new one and it could be fitted without removing anything else) it is time to get the chassis close to balanced and going by the results today, it has a long way to go. This picture is weighbridge MK2, nothing wrong with the first except for me leaving it outside in the rain resulting in the screen no longer working, I could still see the weight via Bluetooth but wanted the screen to be working too. I have made better use of the original casing this time around but the basic design is the same as before. I have made better rising plates which now have a machined recess so that they locate better on the weighing plate, as with before, with two plates fitted this weighs the axle, remove one plate to weigh the opposite wheel to it alone. I have the prototype's axle weights from one of my reference books which I then scaled against the model's total weight against the known axle % rates Prototype weights are engine 92 tons Front bogie 17 ton Leading driver 20 tons main driver 20 tons rear driver 20 tons trailing axle 15 tons percentage split, 18.5%, 21.7%, 21.7%, 21.7% and 16.3% respectively using the above percentage splits and a little maths I can get a ballpark figure for the model model weight (currently) is total of 231.4 lbs (more than I had thought, this makes the boiler alone over 90lbs empty, IIRC the volume is 9 Ltrs full, so nearly 20 lbs with perhaps 15-16 lbs running weight) Front bogie leading-axle 33.8 lbs Front bogie trailing axle 35.8 lbs leading driver 20.8 lbs main driver 27.8 lbs rear driver 69.4 lbs trailing axle 43.8 lbs What I need to find with the current total weight approx is front bogie (total weight) 42.8 lbs leading driver 46.28 lbs main driver 46.28 lbs rear driver 46.28 lbs Trailing axle 37.71 lbs So I have a bit of work ahead of me in adjusting the spring rates to get them closer to those above. At least when looking at the current axle weights and noting how tail heavy the loco currently is I can understand why the trailing axle spring failed when it had been left badly adjusted at full deflection, it's not surprising that the top leaf snapped on one side. I should also add that my son's van is lowered with large alloy wheels and the side nearest the loco's broken spring has its own suspension issues with a damaged spring resulting in it sitting lower that side. Something that I wasn't aware of at the time of loading and had secured the loco down on that side as it was the opposite side to the driver and thus trying to equal the weight and also following good practice and not sit with a heavy weight behind me. This info isn't on the blog, two reasons, one where the server is located is having some maintenance by Virgin and thus it's down and two I have been asked to do an article covering the weighbridge for the mag which will be in much more detail and will hopefully include the final measurements and pictures of the weighbridge construction. Hope this is of interest, it's very much early days and the final figures will change. The current weight shows that the model is certainly going to weigh a fair bit more than Don's design, at 231 lb now ( design weight with tender is listed at 230lb), and with still a lot more parts to be added she's not going to be light. All those extra details and the modified boiler will see to this for sure.. Pete 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 good day all, last time I posted I said that I was going to spend some time weighing the axles to get the model close to the prototype percentage-wise as a baseline. I haven't finished yet but am getting close with mainly the rear and main driving axles needing attention. Once those are closer I'll then measure each wheel independently to get the axles balanced on each side. I have filmed another video showing the weighbridge in action, if you compare the last readings with the targets given in my last post, I hope you can see that I'm going in the right direction. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 Today I have played around with balancing the chassis and have to say that I am very happy with how this has worked out. The model is now getting pretty close to the correct scaled percentage weights for each axle. I could take it further, perhaps even getting it spot on but see no need as the weight will continue to change and grow by a fair amount before the model is complete. I'll do the final tweaks when finished, the important thing is that the weighbridge and adjustments to the springs have proved themselves very able to hit the required targets when that time comes. I have given full details in the blog, hope it's of interest... http://4472flyingscotsman.co.uk/locomotive-weighbridge/ Pete 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 Evening chaps/chapesses Tonight I cover the making of the combination levers, I am beginning to run out of motion parts to make although those few parts that are left won't be a five-minute job to machine, however, I am getting closer to that all-important milestone of running on air, assuming she will actually run that is?...:) It will probably be the union link next plus all the required pins but I have some things to do first in preparation for making the ashpan which means the boiler needs to be removed. This is no bad thing as it needs to come off anyway so that I can remove the running boards to fit the now finished combination levers.... it seems that there is no end to how many times the model needs to be taken apart...:) http://4472flyingscotsman.co.uk/combination-lever/ 7 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 Evening all, tonight I have the union links, these have taken much longer than they should have, purely as I had to wait 10 days for a suitable woodruff cutter, the first company failed, sending me an email a few days after ordering to say they were out of stock and not expecting any new for 4 -6 weeks?? The next company I heard nothing from, contacted them yesterday, promised to call back, and didn't but did send a confirmation email of the order? The cutter arrived this morning so good on them for realising they had clearly forgotten my order and swallowing the cost to send it out next day delivery. So that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it... here's the link http://4472flyingscotsman.co.uk/union-links/ Pete 4 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerburnie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Not heard from you for a while, hope all is well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 19 hours ago, tigerburnie said: Not heard from you for a while, hope all is well. Hi Tiger I am ok thanks, had a set back with one of my eyes so been resting up a little. Having said that what do I do to help relax, go back to doing a little more work on my 1/200 model of Hood', the parts are tiny and really testing my eyesight, at least I have been sitting down in comfort while watching TV...:) Hope to get back to 4472 in the next few weeks, have an appointment with Moorefield's next Thursday, we shall see what they say.. Kind regards Pete 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 hours ago, greenglade said: Hi Tiger I am ok thanks, had a set back with one of my eyes so been resting up a little. Having said that what do I do to help relax, go back to doing a little more work on my 1/200 model of Hood', the parts are tiny and really testing my eyesight, at least I have been sitting down in comfort while watching TV...:) Hope to get back to 4472 in the next few weeks, have an appointment with Moorefield's next Thursday, we shall see what they say.. Kind regards Pete Glad to hear you are on the mend. Any chance of a picture of the hood you are building? richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 6 hours ago, richard i said: Glad to hear you are on the mend. Any chance of a picture of the hood you are building? richard Of course, Richard I'll show a few to give some idea of the work involved... As with everything that I build there will be an awful lot of extra detail, to help with this I have added the excellent PE kit by Pontos which has 1000's of small etched parts along with complete rebuilds of many major parts from the kit. This PE kit was made with close consultation with the HMS Hood Association for the latest info on the ship as sunk in 1941. On top of this I will be adding a lot of scratch built parts. Some of the extra work involved remodeling the hull plating to be more too scale, hawser pipes, portholes repositioned etc. .. the list of extra work is pretty extensive. Currently, I am making the PE bulwark (hull sides between main deck and shelter deck) which will box in the main deck under the shelter deck area. I hope that the photos give some idea of what the model will look like, I have ordered a large custom built case which should be delivered during the next few weeks. Once I have this and the model is screwed down to the base I can start adding the finer detail as it will be protected from dusk by the glass case. Kind regards Pete 5 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Thanks for sharing it. As expected you are not settling for out of the box build. I love the attention to detail. Richard 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Hi everyone, yes I know, it's been a while...my apologies for providing no updates since early October and being quiet about it. Some of you guys will know the reasons why, but without going into detail my health took a dive last October which meant I couldn't do any machining and nor could I drive. Things have improved and I now feel able to continue with 4472, I've even been for a drive too, things must be looking up... Ok, so to business, in the last update I said that the next part would be the radius rods and so they are. This is a reasonably short update for me as I ease myself back into the task at hand. It's a good start though and the critical parts have been worked out and machined. i also hope to in the near future cover the making of the ashpan which will be made from 1.5 mm stainless steel. considering how much swarf I'll be making for the next stage of the radius rods I'm very much looking forward to being able to do a little fabricating for a change. Thanks for looking in chaps... 4472flyingscotsman.co.uk/radius-rods/ Pete 2 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Sorry to hear you've been unwell, but pleased to hear your on the mend. I've followed this topic closely and look forward to further updates as they appear. Davey 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2022 On 20/11/2021 at 19:56, greenglade said: This PE kit was made with close consultation with the HMS Hood Association Hello Pete, Pleased to note that you are on the mend. I have been following your 5" gauge A3 for some time but had no idea you had an interest in maritime modelling too. Bravo, a good choice, what a fine looking ship HMS Hood was if rather vulnerable given that she was designed before all the lessons of Jutland were fully understood. It is interesting to note that whilst the Bismarck was a fine ship able to take much punishment her design was based on the WW1 Baden/Bayern class 15" battleships of the German Imperial Navy. This design had a vulnerablity around the steering gear which was only lightly protected. This probably contributed to the damage inflicted to her steering gear that finished the Bismarck's run for port making her a sitting duck. I am sure that you will receive much support and help from the HMS Hood Association, it might be useful to do some research at Greenwich and the IWM if you have not already done so. Wonderful work. Kind regards, Richard B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Hi Richard yes I have been into warships since a very young child, in fact my father built me the large Lindbergh working model of HMS Hood for IIRC my 8th birthday, I've had a love affair with RN ships from all era's ever since. back in the early 90's I was a founding member of a large model boat club which is still going strong today, I was its first Commodore, fun days. The HMS Hood Association is an excellent source for building a model of this wonderful warship, IMHO the most beautiful warship to ever sail the seas. The Association reviewed the Trumpeter 1/200 kit early on (as they have for most kits out there) and in tandem with Pontos created the fantastic photo etch kit by said company with corrected most of the kit issues. There were still a few omissions which were missed and that I have corrected as I build. One such is the area under the forward 0.5 quad MG's which should be open whereas the kit had it closed off with bulkheads. There are still some small areas which need tweaking although to be fair to Pontos, these are generally things that have only recently come to light in the association's continuing search for details of the ship as sunk. I have used both Greenwich ( a place I often visited many years ago before its makeover when it withdrew most of its models from display) and I also use the IWM photo collection along with others during my research. Luckily there is a chap scratch building a 1/350 model who has done some fantastic research finding many new images which he has logged in his blog, that blog is a fantastic resource for building the 'Mighty Hood' Thanks for your comments on my models, btw I'm building 4472 as she was in A1 guise, 1938 to be precise, with a little modelers license used with the tender for practical reason's in running a highly detailed working scale live steam model of a Gresley pacific. Kind regards Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I've been following this thread for a while but it's only just sunk in how big 5" gauge is. The loco and tender weigh considerably more than me. What's the calculated tractive effort at 85% of boiler pressure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) On 21/02/2022 at 21:52, rogerzilla said: I've been following this thread for a while but it's only just sunk in how big 5" gauge is. The loco and tender weigh considerably more than me. What's the calculated tractive effort at 85% of boiler pressure? Now there's a question... afraid I can't answer that just now even if I knew how to work it out..:) The design weight with tender is approx 230lbs but the engine alone so far comes in at 244lbs and there's still a lot more weight to go on. Also the designed working pressure is 90PSI, this boiler has been built to have a working pressure of 100PSI. I expect her to pull a pretty hefty load, we will have to wait a few years longer to discover how much that may be. Kind regards Pete Edited February 23, 2022 by greenglade 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenglade Posted March 2, 2022 Author Share Posted March 2, 2022 4472 made the front cover of ME last week, needless to say that I'm very proud to have the model on the front cover. This picture is about 6 years old so they still have a way to go before catching up with where I am today..:) Pete 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 On 23/02/2022 at 13:12, greenglade said: Now there's a question... afraid I can't answer that just now even if I knew how to work it out..:) The design weight with tender is approx 230lbs but the engine alone so far comes in at 244lbs and there's still a lot more weight to go on. Also the designed working pressure is 90PSI, this boiler has been built to have a working pressure of 100PSI. I expect her to pull a pretty hefty load, we will have to wait a few years longer to discover how much that may be. Kind regards Pete About 50 lbf, would be my educated guess- if anything, a bit less than that, but that depends on the weight on the trucks. Generally, models run out of grip before they run out of ummph to move. (or at least that's most of my experience on 3.5" gauge). Tmin=Pc*C^2* 0.785398 * S * D (For a _2_ cylindered engine...) Where Tmin= Minimum TE in cycle Pc= Cylinder Pressure (generally use .85 boiler pressure) C= cylinder bore 0.785398 (is a conversion factor) S= Stroke D= Diameter of wheels So, 76.5*1.66*2.16/6.6 =40.9 lbf (if 2 cylinders) So, sanity check says somewhere around 1/4th the weight on the drivers should sound about right. I can say that the math I did for the 5" I have to put together is a lot more than that...on a 0-4-0 0-4-0 (it's also a clearly inferior product, as Pete's loco is _astounding_ in its details). https://www.jghtech.com/assets/applets/LFLSRM-Tractive-Force-Article-current.pdf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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