BR Mk 1 BG generator cars

[BR37414]

Hey folks,

 

Yet another thread from me. I was speaking with one of the senior members here in private and it came up in the million of questions I was asking him

that BR converted a bunch of Mk 1 BGs into generator cars for the use on HST trains as barrier cars and ETH equipped Inverness sleeper trains and no 37/4s where kicking around.

 

Where these renumbered from the standard BG numbering?

 

How many were done?

 

Does anyone have pictures, diagrams, etc.

 

I would like to make a pair of these in BR B&G and a pair in BR Intercity for use with my non ETH equpped class 37s.

 

I tried a search, but keep gettings ones either in todays settings or very limited and not very clear photos

 

There is one photo I discovered here on Rmweb, via another thread but I'm in need of more.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Alex

[royaloak]

I thought there was just the one converted to work with HST trailers because of the slow delivery and unreliability of Power Cars during the early years of HST operation.

 

It was subsequently altered to provide conventional 1000V DC ETS and is now in use with one of the charter operators.

 

Edit-

This is the one-

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=4122

Edited December 15, 2017 by royaloak

[mjkerr]

HST Generator van :

As far as I am aware there was only one

ADB 975325

In 1989 it was renumbered 6310

It was rarely used in passenger use, when Power Cars were low on reliability

As above, it was firstly used during the first few years of the delivery process (mainly on the Western Region)

It's next main use was on the East Coast, where it remained

After renumbering it spent most of its time at Craigentinny, but rarely used

With the introduction of the IC225 it was reallocated back to the Western Region

 

Sleeper Generator vans :

Three were converted, numbered 6311 6312 and 6313

I wrote a topic about these and their use

Two were used on weekdays (Sunday evening to Saturday morning) between Edinburgh - Aberdeen / Inverness with two Class 37 locomotives

The spare could then be used at weekends

One of them was unreliable, so the use of the spare was limited

Six months later one of them "blew up" and sat at Inverness awaiting decision

It was repaired, but lasted just a few days and spent the remainder dumped at Craigentinny

The third one then suffered a fault at the same time, leaving just one working (a Class 47 was quickly found but the ETH cables were accidently not detached from the faulty generator van so there was still not ETH)

This resulted in it being used solely between Edinburgh and Inverness

For a few days the Aberdeen sleeper operated without any ETH, and resulting in a Class 47 being used whilst it was repaired

Edited December 15, 2017 by mjkerr

[BR37414]

I'm going to assume that 6310 was the one painted in B&G and the others were painted in Intercity?

 

The question arrose when I saw a picture of 37283 and 37285 on the sleeper to Inverness.

 

Where the four of them similar in there conversion?

 

Thanks!

[Simon Bendall]

ADB975325, later 6310, was converted when in blue/grey, later repainted in Intercity. It was noticeably different than the other three, the exhaust pipes on the roof for example. It was purely for HSTs in your period so can be ignored. 6311-13 were in Intercity when converted.

[eastwestdivide]

Generator coach 975325 also mentioned here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70655-class-91s-with-mk3s/page-2

and with formations here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124278-western-region-carriage-formationsworkings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/?p=2781631

and

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124278-western-region-carriage-formationsworkings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/?p=2783774 et seq

and a photo or two here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83483-br-ic125-barrier-coach-formations/?p=1383131

Edited December 15, 2017 by eastwestdivide

[tamperman36]

 Have you tried looking on Google images. I looked earlier and found several photos including a photo of both sides of ADB975325 in blue grey livery.

[45125]

HST Generator van :

As far as I am aware there was only one

ADB 975325

In 1989 it was renumbered 6310

It was rarely used in passenger use, when Power Cars were low on reliability

As above, it was firstly used during the first few years of the delivery process (mainly on the Western Region)

It's next main use was on the East Coast, where it remained

After renumbering it spent most of its time at Craigentinny, but rarely used

With the introduction of the IC225 it was reallocated back to the Western Region

 

Sleeper Generator vans :

Three were converted, numbered 6311 6312 and 6313

I wrote a topic about these and their use

Two were used on weekdays (Sunday evening to Saturday morning) between Edinburgh - Aberdeen / Inverness with two Class 37 locomotives

The spare could then be used at weekends

One of them was unreliable, so the use of the spare was limited

Six months later one of them "blew up" and sat at Inverness awaiting decision

It was repaired, but lasted just a few days and spent the remainder dumped at Craigentinny

The third one then suffered a fault at the same time, leaving just one working (a Class 47 was quickly found but the ETH cables were accidently not detached from the faulty generator van so there was still not ETH)

This resulted in it being used solely between Edinburgh and Inverness

For a few days the Aberdeen sleeper operated without any ETH, and resulting in a Class 47 being used whilst it was repaired

 

Was there not a BG converted in the mid 60s along with a BFK for providing ETH on Eastern Mk2s?.

[BR37414]

The only pictures I have found are the ones mentioned from the other forum post.

What did you use for search?

 

As for 6310, if it was exclusively for the HST then no need for me to model it. I'm mostly interested in 6311-6313.

 

I'm not trying to be annoying with my questions but being new to modelling British Rail, I'm trying to be as thorough as I can. I still don't have a knack for the coach types etc, prefer to ask.

 

I do appricate all the provided info.

 

Thanks!

[newbryford]

Pretty certain that 6311-13 are still around.

6311 at LSL at Crewe,

6312 with WCRC and makes odd forays out from Carnforth

6313 is part of the VSOE Pullman fleet.

 

I've made 6312 in its current guise from a Bachmann BG 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited December 16, 2017 by newbryford

[Spannerman]

I'm not sure how much help this is but Railway Modeller had an article in the early 90s (possibly even late 80s).

The reason I remember is it was my first go at model bashing turning a Grahman Farish BG into one.

 

Nik

[JDW]

The only pictures I have found are the ones mentioned from the other forum post.

What did you use for search?

 

As for 6310, if it was exclusively for the HST then no need for me to model it. I'm mostly interested in 6311-6313.

 

I'm not trying to be annoying with my questions but being new to modelling British Rail, I'm trying to be as thorough as I can. I still don't have a knack for the coach types etc, prefer to ask.

 

I do appricate all the provided info.

 

Thanks!

 

So long as you're asking reasonable questions (rather than a re-hash of the same old question that's been asked 10 times already!), and so long as you've paid your membership fees in full and ticked the "I want to ask questions" box (there's an extra charge) I don't think anyone will find it annoying.  

 

Seriously though, I often find random questions lead to diverse discussions and interesting topics, often like this where it isn't something I'd have asked about but enjoyed reading the answers and learning something new, which often leads to looking at or for something else related too.  I suspect many find the same.  And often, even if no one else has asked that question, it will be helpful to someone else at some point anyway.  And I'd echo your thanks to those with a knowledge of obscure subjects who take the time to answer and help/entertain us all.  So ask away!

[Ken.W]

As for 6310, if it was exclusively for the HST then no need for me to model it. I'm mostly interested in 6311-6313.

If 6310 was for working with HST stock, that means it would be incompatible with loco hauled stock, they're different electrical systems

[Dava]

There were also the BR conversions for CIE, 3 of which were repatriated to the GCR

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99474-great-central-railway-news/page-5

 

Dava

[russ p]

There were also the BR conversions for CIE, 3 of which were repatriated to the GCR

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99474-great-central-railway-news/page-5

 

 

Dava

 

Aren't those Irish ones steam heat and train lighting generators?

[mjkerr]

If 6310 was for working with HST stock, that means it would be incompatible with loco hauled stock, they're different electrical systems

6310 also doubled up as a HST barrier vehicle

I once saw it at the back of charter set, for movement from Bounds Green to Craigentinny (it had obviously been used southbound and this was an ideal method for returning north)

[tamperman36]

If you go onto Google images then put "British rail mk1 generator coach" into the search box and you should find several useful pictures which may be helpful

[D6775]

Just found these of 6311 on Flickr which should be useful:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151257534@N04/37336955364/in/album-72157665650258679/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151257534@N04/37336948364/in/album-72157665650258679/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151257534@N04/37336942754/in/album-72157665650258679/

 

Some other useful stuff on that site too.

 

Cheers,

 

Al.

[108]

Aren't those Irish ones steam heat and train lighting generators?

The Mk 1 BCK and BSK conversions were indeed steam heat and lighting genny vans.

 

There were later Mk 2 and Mk 3 ETH and electrical services genny vans built new for CIE / Irish Rail

Edited December 16, 2017 by 108

[royaloak]

If 6310 was for working with HST stock, that means it would be incompatible with loco hauled stock, they're different electrical systems

6310 (or ADB975325 as it was at the time) was exclusively for HSTs because it was converted for that very reason, it was only later in its life when the HSTs were all in service (and more reliable) that it was converted to supply the standard 1000V DC train supply of 'normal' coaches, that also meant that it could no longer supply HST trailers with their 415V 3 phase AC system.

 

There is always rule 1 and in my books something like this would definitely qualify.

 

As for asking for more detail, please do, as it gets the old grey matter going and also includes other peoples knowledge, a good example is I had completely forgotten about 6311-6313 and have now researched them, something I wouldnt have done without this thread.

Edited December 16, 2017 by royaloak

[HillsideDepot]

Nice little video here of the shunting at Inverness

We're on board for the first section but at 1:50 the Inverness pilot shunts off the Motorail GUVs, then returns for the coaching stock, before the 37s reverse out with the Generator. Then the cameraman goes up onto the bridge and we see the Generator being refuelled as the 37s stand outside the fuelling shed, and right at the very end the 08 takes the Generator away as the first 37 is fuelled (and the one we saw moving about light engine has joined the queue).

 

Edit to add: not my video, but came up as a suggested video on YouTube

Edited December 16, 2017 by HillsideDepot

[BR37414]

I swear, you guys have better luck with Google and Flickr than I do.

 

I ran several searches using "mk 1 bg generator" and all I got was a handful of pictures of how they look today and that one picture of 6310.

 

That said, my intial questions have been answered. But more remain.

 

That video is awesome and gives me several more ideas for modelling and even for my layout.

 

The Motorail GUVs are something new to me. I've seen them mentioned before and even seen models of them but I know little about them. I will attempt a search now lol.

 

I always liked how forums bring together people from all over, all ages. I'm from Canada and have no access to the real British Rail and I was 8-10 yeats old at this point in history.

 

Its fascinating to me to learn and I do appricate everyones contributions.

[hmrspaul]

That video is awesome and gives me several more ideas for modelling and even for my layout.

 

The Motorail GUVs are something new to me. I've seen them mentioned before and even seen models of them but I know little about them. I will attempt a search now lol.

 

 

 

Motorail GUV in Scotland 1989 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/eeb3bccb

 

Paul

[mjkerr]

Just found these of 6311 on Flickr

Thanks, that confirms that it was indeed 6311 that blew up (I had my suspicions when writing the original post) between Edinburgh and Inverness, resulting in it sitting in Inverness for a few weeks

[John M Upton]

Are there any pictures of the roof of ADB975325 anywhere?  I fancy having a go at as it fuels my enthusiasm for oddball Mk1's...