Taigatrommel Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hi all, Yesterday I bought a Lionel train set in a local charity shop, and having sourced a UK->US transformer/adaptor at Maplin I've had it running round our Christmas tree, having fun sounding the whistle in the tender. I noticed that the headlight wasn't working, and examining the loco I found that a connecion was loose. I found a manual online, connected the loose wire where it should go (screwed onto the stamped metal valve motion slides), and put it back on the track. Well, the light lit up, but after only a couple of circuits the controller cut out. Now comes a possible cause, though I'd welcome expertise. As well as a lamp there's a smoke unit, and in the set was a large bottle of smoke fluid (MTH branded, but I've seen the same bottles with other brands on such as LGB). On giving the bottle a gentle squeeze to let a couple of drips out, instead a real squirt came out and went down the chimney. Could having too much smoke fluid in the unit be causing the overload? There's a little bit of smoke showing, but only the faintest wisp. Is there any easy way of getting the excess fluid out, should this be the cause of the issue? Such toy trains are new to me, I would expect such a schoolboy error not to cause a loss of operation! Thanks in advance, Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Just to be clear, it's pretty much this set except the loco is numbered 8644. The manual is dated 1996, the part number is the same (6-11900). Edited December 15, 2017 by Taigatrommel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) The smoke fluid shouldn't cause an overload. It's heated by a little element, and unless that is somehow short-circuited, the load it presents will be constant, and if they go faulty, it is usually open circuit, not short circuit. There is probably a "smoke off" switch somewhere, so try turning it off, ditto the lights if you can, both of which should reduce the load. But, if the loco is working freely, the load should be very low, probably somewhere a little either side of 1 amp. If it is overloading a 3 amp transformer, that suggests that something it sticking or binding, friction creating drag. My gut feeling is that you have either fixed the loose wire in the wrong place, creating a short-circuit or mechanical fouling (I can't see why a wire would be needed to the valvegear, unless it has a "chuff" sound that is synchronised with the valvegear), or your loco isn't running freely for some other reason, and needs a careful mechanical check-over. Tennents Trains in Halesowen are the UK suppliers of modern Lionel, so if you can't fix it yourself, I'd pop over and ask them to have a look at it for you. Very good find in a charity shop; you are a lucky chap! Edited December 15, 2017 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hi Nearholmer, https://www.lionelsupport.com/media/servicedocuments/71-1900-250.pdf Page 14 shows where the wire lug attaches. Everything seems in good condition, all parts move freely - until I reconnected the smoke unit/headlamp it was working fine! There's no switch for the smoke unit, only for disabling the reversing unit. Later variants have the smoke unit switch from what I can tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Our charity shops never have anything like that! The best they could manage was a Hornby 0-4-0T and I didn't need yet another one.... I would disconnect the smoke unit and replace the bulb with a LED fed through a recifier and a resistor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Hmm ...... I see what you mean about where the smoke unit wire goes, but it isn't easy to see from that diagram the precise location. I think I'd just disconnect the lug again, because if everything works fine without it, that does suggest a short circuit in the smoke unit. Maybe a child rammed a pencil down the chimney, or similar, at some point in the past. Personally, I can't abide the smoke units anyway. The 'smoke' is actually a fine mist of oil, which deposits itself all over the place. Grifone's idea around the lamp is a very good one, but whether you want to tackle it will depend on your confidence with those sorts of jobs. Edited December 15, 2017 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 The smoke effect is rather pathetic anyway. Nothing like the full blooded exhaust of a steam engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muir Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Tip loco upside down to remove excess smoke fluid, then a few drops added again and life is good. It's interesting that you've said the controller overloads after a small amount of running: sounds possibly long enough for the smoke generator element to warm up and then short out. is it one of the plastic bodied heating elements? By the the sounds of things, some people do have issues with that period smoke unit and often deactivate them: Is it really smart to put a heating element into an all PLASTIC housing? I think not. My dad had to cut the wires to the smoke unit and hard-wired the headlight to the former smoke unit leads I have the same type of engine with the same type of smoke unit. Plastic and heat really don't mix..... Mine melted (I was young at the time, didn't really know to keep it full of fluid) and burned out. My dad bypassed the smoke unit resistor so I could at least run the engine and have the headlight in operation. It isn't exactly one you can work on like the newer units or the postwar ones, so replacing the whole unit would be best. Just thinking it may be pragmatic to just try and bypass the smoke unit Muir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 hi Muir, Yes, it;'s a plastic bodied smoke unit. I think I'll follow the concensus here and bypass it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2017 The other possibility is that there is a short circuit type fault in the controller causing it to trip out (controllers do not need hallucinatory drugs for this). This might explain why an otherwise perfectly good train set ended up in a charity shop! If this is the case, Tennent's should be able to provide a replacement; not such a bargain but still worth the effort! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Had one of those from new - a present to my son from America. The horn never worked, the smoke unit did though. Quality control probably. We get it out to run round the Christmas tree, about all it's good for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 The other possibility is that there is a short circuit type fault in the controller causing it to trip out (controllers do not need hallucinatory drugs for this). This might explain why an otherwise perfectly good train set ended up in a charity shop! If this is the case, Tennent's should be able to provide a replacement; not such a bargain but still worth the effort! I don't think so, with the smoke unit disconnected it's perfectly happy again, delivering enough juice for the lit caboose as well as the whistle in the loco while it's running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2017 I think a 40W transformer is pretty small (is that what came with the set?) Tim V: The horn/whistle and bell units can be sensitive to polarity (yes, even in an AC train set). They operate by sticking a diode into the circuit inside the transformer and the sound unit sees this. The bell/horn functions can be reversed by changing the 2 wires to the track. This wasn't always the case. My 1953 set would take the DC in either direction for the whistle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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