RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2020 10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: And even - then depending on what it is - small changes to the tooling remain feasible right up to final sign-off of the tooling for series production. At risk of going off topic (tho relevant) how do they actually do this? Is it only possible to remove further material from the tool once cut or can they "fill in" or even change details as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Hal Nail said: At risk of going off topic (tho relevant) how do they actually do this? Is it only possible to remove further material from the tool once cut or can they "fill in" or even change details as well? Easy enough to add additional surface detail of course because it is a 'simple' further cut into the tool. The difficult bit is removing detail, e.g a rivet head, after it has been cut into the tool but recently talking to somebody in the business he said that making such a change 'wasn't impossible'. So I do wonder if it might be feasible, or economic (which might be the more important factor), to - say - alter a rivet pattern after a tool is finished up to first shot standard or would it mean a new tool or part of a tool But overall of course the aim has to be to get it right first time - which isn't always as simple as it might sound. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Let us not forget that the 14XX was an Airfix model, via Dapol, and the Large Prairie was also an Airfix model. So, I wouldn't be sympathetic to any repetition of the tosh-talking of the "it's always been in our range" variety! I'm not sure that a large Metro is naturally anybody's in RTR format. It would just be nice to see one available in either kit or RTR format. A number ended up at Newton Abbot in the '30s. There are certainly less mainstream choices for a manufacturer to consider. i don't suppose it's ever flicked the wish-list dial, however. As I may have mentioned, i'd love to see a RTR 517 class, with a long life span. Given that the Hattons 14XX cannot legitimately represent a pre-1939 4800, so far as I can tell, it is the natural choice for '30s modellers as well as those going earlier. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted February 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, Edwardian said: I'm not sure that a large Metro is naturally anybody's in RTR format. It would just be nice to see one available in either kit or RTR format. A number ended up at Newton Abbot in the '30s. There are certainly less mainstream choices for a manufacturer to consider. i don't suppose it's ever flicked the wish-list dial, however. Hello Edwardian You will no doubt be pleasantly surprised to hear that in The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 the Metro Tank was High Polling. It was 8th out of the 28 GWR locos listed. Overall, it came it at equal position 61st - much higher than it was in 2018. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 05/02/2020 at 13:50, Denbridge said: My bad as well. Just remembered the Roxey kit is for a medium Metro. The only 'kit' for a large Metro, I came across was a set of etchings from Rod Neep. Mike Wiltshire 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, BMacdermott said: Hello Edwardian You will no doubt be pleasantly surprised to hear that in The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 the Metro Tank was High Polling. It was 8th out of the 28 GWR locos listed. Overall, it came it at equal position 61st - much higher than it was in 2018. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team) A genuine and pleasant surprise, Brian, thank you, whereas I think the 517 has sunk out of site in the last couple of polls. So much more character than a 14XX! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted February 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hello Edwardian The 517 was just 10 votes behind in 2019. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Coach bogie said: The only 'kit' for a large Metro, I came across was a set of etchings from Rod Neep. Mike Wiltshire Very nice, how did you do the volute springs for the front wheels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said: Very nice, how did you do the volute springs for the front wheels? 1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said: Very nice, how did you do the volute springs for the front wheels? I made mine by winding 5 thou sheet round a central rod, soldering the beginning end and wrapping tightly. Solder the 2nd end then trim to length, assembling into banks of 3 with ns end pieces. I'll try and find some pics. The late Guy Williams simply turned them, forming steps. Looks just as good and I'll copy his method in future. Edited February 10, 2020 by Denbridge Missed a bit 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said: Very nice, how did you do the volute springs for the front wheels? they are small threaded bolts. Mike Wilthire 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 11:47, Edwardian said: Given that the Hattons 14XX cannot legitimately represent a pre-1939 4800,so far as I can tell, It "only" requires the bunker steps and roof handrail removing to get the as-built condition AFAIK. Having said that, I've not been brave enough to attempt this yet. Got some very sharp new blades of a suitable size but still think I'll be wrecking some rivet detail in the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2020 10 hours ago, 57xx said: It "only" requires the bunker steps and roof handrail removing to get the as-built condition AFAIK. Having said that, I've not been brave enough to attempt this yet. Got some very sharp new blades of a suitable size but still think I'll be wrecking some rivet detail in the process. Mine is on my work bench for exactly this work, I made sure to have a sheet of Archers rivets to hand to fix any mistakes.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2020 I'm a little surprised at the apparent drop in popularity of the 517, as I'd have thought Fair Rosamund would sell just on the lovely name. It'd appeal to history buffs as well; Rosamund Clifford was a mistress of Henry II and considered a great beauty in her day. There is no evidence that she was poisoned by Henry's wife, Elanor of Aquitaine, but it's a popular yarn... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Gave one of my aged (and second hand) Bachmann 43xx a spin yesterday, after some time in a box. Clearly needs running in - and lubricating - but was a bit like a bucking bronco. More than prototypically so, but much as I remember it, even when run in. So I am looking forward to a good, modern mechanism as much as anything else. Fortunately (for me) the body style of 43xx that Dapol are starting with suits my 'final steam' period of interest (i.e. 63xx). But if they come up with a really good mechanism then I think that they will be able to cash in by building on the initial investment with other variants of 43xx, and other classes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 Not to mention the Manor. The same combination of cylinders, motion, and wheel spacings is common to all the large prairie variants, the moguls, Manors, Granges, Halls, and Saints, and it strikes me as not beyond the wit of man to design a common chassis for all those classes. The only differences is in the wheel diameter and this could be managed by having spacer pieces in the axle channels to cope with the different driving wheels. 5'3", 5'6", 5'8", 6', and 6'8". The frame length is different between large prairies/moguls/Manors and Grange/Hall/Saint, but if the standard chassis was to the shorter length an extension piece would suffice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 hours ago, Pteremy said: Gave one of my aged (and second hand) Bachmann 43xx a spin yesterday, after some time in a box. Clearly needs running in - and lubricating - but was a bit like a bucking bronco. More than prototypically so, but much as I remember it, even when run in. So I am looking forward to a good, modern mechanism as much as anything else. Fortunately (for me) the body style of 43xx that Dapol are starting with suits my 'final steam' period of interest (i.e. 63xx). But if they come up with a really good mechanism then I think that they will be able to cash in by building on the initial investment with other variants of 43xx, and other classes. You should count yourself lucky that you have one of the Bachmann versions, the mechs on them are far better than the pod motor setups on the old Mainline Models version and were heralded as a great leap in performance over the former chassis, I have a 30+ year old Mainline 43xx that I have nursed back into good health after giving it a good service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 10 hours ago, The Johnster said: Not to mention the Manor. The same combination of cylinders, motion, and wheel spacings is common to all the large prairie variants, the moguls, Manors, Granges, Halls, and Saints, and it strikes me as not beyond the wit of man to design a common chassis for all those classes. The only differences is in the wheel diameter and this could be managed by having spacer pieces in the axle channels to cope with the different driving wheels. 5'3", 5'6", 5'8", 6', and 6'8". The frame length is different between large prairies/moguls/Manors and Grange/Hall/Saint, but if the standard chassis was to the shorter length an extension piece would suffice. Depends how accurate and extensive you want the detail and if you get down to that level there are quite a lot of differences. The closest relatives are probably, and not surprisingly, the 'Saint' and the 'Hall' and the large prairie and the 43XX mogul which was developed from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 16/02/2020 at 03:15, The Johnster said: I'm a little surprised at the apparent drop in popularity of the 517, as I'd have thought Fair Rosamund would sell just on the lovely name. It'd appeal to history buffs as well; Rosamund Clifford was a mistress of Henry II and considered a great beauty in her day. There is no evidence that she was poisoned by Henry's wife, Elanor of Aquitaine, but it's a popular yarn... Hello Johnster At the risk of 'going off topic', I thought you might like to see that the 517 isn't actually dropping... 2016 - 12th of 25 GWR Locos 2017 - Poll didn't run 2018 - 10th of 26 2019 - 9th of 28 Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 We may see Fair Rosamund yet, then! Veering gently back in the direction of the topic, I have a vague intention to one day have a go at Tondu's Collett large prairie 3100, used on the daily Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter service because it's small wheels and big boiler gave it the ability to get away from stations on the SWML between Bridgend and Cardiff quickly and keep out of the way of the main line traffic. The Collett 31xx were the ultimate development of the large prairie format, utter thugs with 5'3" wheels and no.4 boilers, but only 5 were built, Collett did a lot of 'messing around' with large prairies in order to get more out of them, with the higher boiler pressure of the 61xx, the addition of smaller driving wheels of the 81xx, and the completion of this evolutionary line his 31xx. WW2 effectively put a stop to all this and further orders were for 5101s, the last being built in 1950. My putative plan for a Collett 31xx is the reason for my canvassing for a 'variable wheel diameter' one size fits all chassis block, but of course it probably isn't as easy as I make out. The different ride heights have to accommodate the motor and gears, and there is no 'relief' in terms of body height with the smaller wheeled locos, as the boilers of such locos were pitched lower in order to maintain the standard Churchward dimensions between the smokebox and the saddle/half cylinder block. GW locos are not all the same because the boilers are nearly set at different heights, an issue for modellers when it comes to accommodating the mechs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 13 hours ago, The Johnster said: Not to mention the Manor. The same combination of cylinders, motion, and wheel spacings is common to all the large prairie variants, the moguls, Manors, Granges, Halls, and Saints, and it strikes me as not beyond the wit of man to design a common chassis for all those classes. The only differences is in the wheel diameter and this could be managed by having spacer pieces in the axle channels to cope with the different driving wheels. 5'3", 5'6", 5'8", 6', and 6'8". The frame length is different between large prairies/moguls/Manors and Grange/Hall/Saint, but if the standard chassis was to the shorter length an extension piece would suffice. The Wills/SEF Finecast chassis for the Prairie & Hall can be suitably adapted for use under the Taff Vale O, O1, and U1 locomotive. You can't have it under the U2, because Bono & the Edge want royalties...... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 But I still haven't found what I'm looking for No I still haven't... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 I think the thread drift in this case, has run its course. In many cases, it might prove counter-productive to start wish-listing without the outstanding in-coming products to hand. It's a short hop. skip & jump from saying:- "Ooh, that mogul looks good", to some Clever Dickie demanding "Where the D*^$*()g ' 'e%=: is my ( note the word MY, in here) Manor? I certainly wouldn't want to diminish any enthusiasm, far from it, and I fully accept the blame from me & my big mouth. But, we still need to pursue a path of detente & interaction with a manufacturer to bring these sorts of model to market. One step at a time, perchance? Cheers, Ian. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Johnster said: But I still haven't found what I'm looking for No I still haven't... Down on Penarth Road (Cardiff), there is a huuuuge pallet of cardboard boxes, all addressed to a location on the other side of Cardiff. The pallet is located in a secure area called 'Quarantine' with the instructions to 'Withhold Delivery' Of course, I could be making all of this up, but you never know........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 I think this is a) entirely probable, and b) entirely off topic; should entirely probably be relocated to 94xx thread... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 On 17/02/2020 at 05:01, David Stannard said: You should count yourself lucky that you have one of the Bachmann versions, the mechs on them are far better than the pod motor setups on the old Mainline Models version and were heralded as a great leap in performance over the former chassis, I have a 30+ year old Mainline 43xx that I have nursed back into good health after giving it a good service. Mine doesn't like keeping the pony truck on the track. And that's dispite lots of alteration to fix it. Actual chassis is fine and converted to dcc. I keep hovering over the pre-order button of a Great Western lettered version.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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