OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Harlequin]

49 minutes ago, Gopher said:

The next exciting instalment on my faulty Mogul

 

After more comprehensive testing otherwise known as frigging about I have made a discovery.

 

The instructions state that function F1 operates the firebox flicker.  As mentioned by Harlequin and Neal - Function F0 needs to be operated.  I have discovered that when I turn on Function F0 as well as getting a periodic dim firebox glow, the loco also starts the celebrated twitching, even when the throttle is returned to zero.  If I turn off Function F0 the Loco behaves itself.  So it looks as if there is some kind of circuitry/decoder fault.  The Zimo sound decoder I hope to install operates the firebox flicker off a different function to coincide with coal shovelling sounds.  I am still reluctant to install a sound decoder, when clearly there is some kind of fault.

 

I am not sure whether the F0 conundrum accounts for the other behavioural problems the loco has i.e. when put in reverse carrying on running even when throttle is returned to zero.   The only way to stop the loco being to cut power to the track.  This was happening every time I ran the loco this morning (and before I discovered the power of Function 0).  I have not been able to replicate this in my running session this afternoon (although I did remove the PCB and chip to examine them under a magnifier - possibly re-inserting both cured this problem).  Also in my session this afternoon cutting power to the track stopped the loco from twitching (unlike yesterday when it seemed to have a life of its own).

 

I guess the bottom line is whilst I can live without a firebox flicker, I do not fully trust the loco not to possibly screw up another more expensive decoder.  Also having paid good dosh the thing should run to spec, and I should not have to compromise.                  

Ah, interesting...

Sounds like you have some crossover between the firebox light circuit and the motor circuit. Maybe there are some trapped wires somewhere with their insulation stripped away and making unwanted contact? Or bad soldering around the carrier board socket?

 

[Gopher]

43 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Ah, interesting...

Sounds like you have some crossover between the firebox light circuit and the motor circuit. Maybe there are some trapped wires somewhere with their insulation stripped away and making unwanted contact? Or bad soldering around the carrier board socket?

 

Thanks Harlequin.  If this is the problem do you think the fault would occur when running on DC? Having said that I have never noticed the LED being lit on DC. I assume it should flicker periodically

[toboldlygo]

Okay, I'm currently working on one of the 43xx's for a certain Mr S on the forum.

 

It's lovely, but it is built to a budget and it certainly shows when you start looking round it on the flesh. 

 

Most of the criticisms have been already noted on the thread, the two that really grate on me are the ski-jump chamfers on the on the internal surfaces of the cab (to try and make cab & roof edges look thinner) and the use of plastic parts where other manufacturers would use metal.

 

The good news is it's very easy to remove the printed on branding, a few minutes of soaking with Micro-Sol and they come off with very little effort.

 

The flip side of that, is I would be very careful with you use to weather it.

 

Anything water based or powders are fine, but unless you've put sealing coat on, I would be very wary using enamel based washes by hand, as you could remove the factory applied branding. 

 

 

[melmerby]

9 minutes ago, Gopher said:

Thanks Harlequin.  If this is the problem do you think the fault would occur when running on DC? Having said that I have never noticed the LED being lit on DC. I assume it should flicker periodically

Can't see that happening unless it already a flickering LED.

 

I assumed it was a steady one that should be controlled by the firebox flicker function on the decoder

[Cofga]

I have installed a sound decoder from a manufacturer I cannot name as this is a prototype and the loco runs fine with it. As of now I have not reprogrammed any of the functions but I will test F1 and F0 to see if either control the flicker and if there are any associated issues. Mine runs great as of now without any oil or break in running. When I  asked Dapol about disassembly instructions all they would say is it would violate my warranty and they ignored my followup questions. Right now I would rate them very low on customer service. If I do run into any problems I likely will remove the boiler, pull their board, and hardwire in a conventional decoder. I see no need for an 18 pin decoder when most UK steam locos only need 6-8 wires. However it was nice to be able to just pop a sugar cube in the little black box, insert the decoder, and slide the board back into the slot. 

 

Larry Puckett

YouTube “The DCC Guy”

Model Railroader Contributing Editor

[Harlequin]

45 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Can't see that happening unless it already a flickering LED.

 

I assumed it was a steady one that should be controlled by the firebox flicker function on the decoder

No, the firebox “flicker” is run by electronics on the loco and is just a regular cycle between the two LEDs. This is one of the model’s flaws. I guess it’s done that way so that it “flickers” under DC control too.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

No, the firebox “flicker” is run by electronics on the loco and is just a regular cycle between the two LEDs. This is one of the model’s flaws. I guess it’s done that way so that it “flickers” under DC control too.

That's disappointing. I hoped it was just a red-orange LED that could be controlled with on chip flicker function.

 

IMHO A better bet would be a red random flicker & an orange random flicker which would not be in sync at all.

Maybe when/if I get my loco* I'll have to investigate.

 

* Looks like Royal Mail have lost mine, as it is 13 days since Derails posted it. The tracking stopped 8 days ago.

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Cofga said:

I have installed a sound decoder from a manufacturer I cannot name as this is a prototype and the loco runs fine with it. As of now I have not reprogrammed any of the functions but I will test F1 and F0 to see if either control the flicker and if there are any associated issues. Mine runs great as of now without any oil or break in running. When I  asked Dapol about disassembly instructions all they would say is it would violate my warranty and they ignored my followup questions. Right now I would rate them very low on customer service. If I do run into any problems I likely will remove the boiler, pull their board, and hardwire in a conventional decoder. I see no need for an 18 pin decoder when most UK steam locos only need 6-8 wires. However it was nice to be able to just pop a sugar cube in the little black box, insert the decoder, and slide the board back into the slot. 

 

Larry Puckett

YouTube “The DCC Guy”

Model Railroader Contributing Editor

It's called "standardisation"

A Next18 will fit almost any loco and can accommodated sound and many functions if required.

 

[Chuffer Davies]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

That's disappointing. I hoped it was just a red-orange LED that could be controlled with on chip flicker function.

 

IMHO A better bet would be a red random flicker & an orange random flicker which would not be in sync at all.

Maybe when/if I get my loco* I'll have to investigate.

 

* Looks like Royal Mail have lost mine, as it is 13 days since Derails posted it. The tracking stopped 8 days ago.

 

According to an item on the BBC the other day you need to contact Derails to request they fulfil your order.

 

Best of luck,

Frank

 

[melmerby]

46 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

According to an item on the BBC the other day you need to contact Derails to request they fulfil your order.

 

Best of luck,

Frank

 

Little Dan is already on it.

You have to give RM 14 days to fulfil the order before you can do anything.

Then a claim against RM for "lost in post" can start and we can proceed from there.

 

This is not the first item of mine that RM have lost somewhere in their system in the last few years.

There have been at least 3, including another earlier this year.

In one case the retailer just sent another to replace the missing item and another gave a full refund so that I could re-order

Edited December 10, 2020 by melmerby

[rembrow]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Little Dan is already on it.

You have to give RM 14 days to fulfil the order before you can do anything.

Then a claim against RM for "lost in post" can start and we can proceed from there.

 

This is not the first item of mine that RM have lost somewhere in their system in the last few years.

There have been at least 3, including another earlier this year.

In one case the retailer just sent another to replace the missing item and another gave a full refund so that I could re-order

Sorry to hear about this delay. I had something similar within the last two weeks, involving a loco. My tracking info stopped progressing and after 3 days I contacted the retailer, who advised that they had outgoing tracked orders over about 10 days, that were stuck at RM Leeds Mail Centre. RM were not updating the tracking and in my case it indicated the item was still with the retailer. The retailer advised that RM, to get through the problem, were prioritising new mail and only tackling the backlog slowly. I did get my order, but the retailer told me that some of the items caught up, were ebay orders and in some cases the customers had claimed for delay through ebay and had a refund, yet will probably get the item when RM sorts itself out. RM were not updating the location of the mail on the tracking and therefore not showing that there was a delay with them.

[melmerby]

5 minutes ago, rembrow said:

 RM were not updating the location of the mail on the tracking and therefore not showing that there was a delay with them.

Mine was showing in the local District Office and to be delivered on the 1st December.

 

"Your Item was received by Moseley DO on 01-12-2020 and is now due for delivery today."

 

It wasn't delivered and the tracking hasn't changed, since then.

[Pteremy]

13 hours ago, Harlequin said:

No, the firebox “flicker” is run by electronics on the loco and is just a regular cycle between the two LEDs. This is one of the model’s flaws. I guess it’s done that way so that it “flickers” under DC control too.

I confess that I had assumed that it was a DCC only effect - neither of mine show any sign of it!

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Mine was showing in the local District Office and to be delivered on the 1st December.

 

"Your Item was received by Moseley DO on 01-12-2020 and is now due for delivery today."

 

It wasn't delivered and the tracking hasn't changed, since then.

I think all are hit and miss at the moment. I had a consignment ordered early last week which was to be delivered by DHL next day service. There was still no sign of it in tracking over the weekend  although the firm said it had been dispatched and I had received a DHL message saying we've got you parcel. Then had a DHL message on Monday to say it was out for delivery followed by another three hours later saying it was delayed. It was shown as delivered at 0859 on Tuesday, it was in the porch when I got home, although I later had another message giving me a delivery slot due in the afternoon. Have they given a job to Failing Grayling or is he just working for the Felixstowe crowd?

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Cofga said:

When I  asked Dapol about disassembly instructions all they would say is it would violate my warranty and they ignored my followup questions. Right now I would rate them very low on customer service. 

 

Larry Puckett

YouTube “The DCC Guy”

Model Railroader Contributing Editor

Same reaction I had on asking about the GWR Railcar I had with issues, they said it was a very complicated model with a lot of fine wiring and I should not attempt to disassemble it myself, after they failed to repair it twice I had a go and it was one of the easiest Locos I have ever disassembled.........and they too ignored all my emails after that, I’d rate them lower 

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, Pteremy said:

I confess that I had assumed that it was a DCC only effect - neither of mine show any sign of it!

Reviewed in this months RM and they noted that the firebox effects didnt appear to operate on their sample under DC control. 

[Gopher]

Just picked up another replacement DCC fitted loco - this one runs like a dream and even the fire box flicker works without causing the loco to have a fit.  This time I opted for the early BR Green version as opposed to the late BR green version for the faulty locos.  What is interesting is the previous locos (even when behaving themselves), never ran as smoothly as this one e.g. I could not get them to operate (crawl) at low speed.  The motor control is so much better in this one, or the Dapol chip is doing it's job properly.   

 

My issues with this model have been electrical.  The first two did have a displaced front buffer (loose in the box), but easily pushed back into place .   The latest replacement was all in one piece.   All the models I have tried have been free from the mechanical running problems mentioned earlier in this thread, very sure footed, and quiet motors .  Lets hope it stays that way. 

 

I guess my experience with the Mogul may say something about Dapol quality control or I have just  been lucky with my Bachmann, Hornby, Heljan models and the Dapol class 122 diesel rail car - where I have never encountered any issues (apart from checking back to backs).    

 

I may be brave and remove the loco body to add some silver paint to the back of the motor housing to improve the firebox flicker. On the other hand maybe I will leave well alone.   

 

I will add a sound decoder, crew, coal, lamps  and weather it.  

 

Thanks again to all who gave suggestions and advice in my quest to identify the problems.  

 

P.S I could never see the firebox flicker on any of the locos when I operated them on DC

Edited December 10, 2020 by Gopher

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I think all are hit and miss at the moment. I had a consignment ordered early last week which was to be delivered by DHL next day service. There was still no sign of it in tracking over the weekend  although the firm said it had been dispatched and I had received a DHL message saying we've got you parcel. Then had a DHL message on Monday to say it was out for delivery followed by another three hours later saying it was delayed. It was shown as delivered at 0859 on Tuesday, it was in the porch when I got home, although I later had another message giving me a delivery slot due in the afternoon. Have they given a job to Failing Grayling or is he just working for the Felixstowe crowd?

This is familiar.I have recently had three less than perfect experiences with DHL parcels ordered from two retailers in Germany ,all supposedly “tracked”. After negotiating the labyrinthine website I discovered the latest....delivered yesterday.... was “on hold”at East Midlands after arrival from Düsseldorf on Monday. It was left propped against the wall at the side of the porch door.No attempt was made to alert me it had arrived.....I just happened to be on the lookout and saw it immediately. Last month the first parcel was left outside the porch....again no attempt to attract attention.The second parcel’s arrival was announced by a card in the letterbox. I was upstairs at the time.No consignment or tracking number on it just a couple of telephone numbers for redelivery.Fortunately the gent at the DHL end was constructively helpful and I was emailed the following morning announcing it was on its way.It arrived and was put where I asked ....inside the porch door. Other carriers deliveries have not been similarly troublesome.Well not as yet so I mustn’t tempt fate.
 

[Adrock]

2 hours ago, Gopher said:

Just picked up another replacement DCC fitted loco - this one runs like a dream and even the fire box flicker works without causing the loco to have a fit.  This time I opted for the early BR Green version as opposed to the late BR green version for the faulty locos.  What is interesting is the previous locos (even when behaving themselves), never ran as smoothly as this one e.g. I could not get them to operate (crawl) at low speed.  The motor control is so much better in this one, or the Dapol chip is doing it's job properly.   

 

My issues with this model have been electrical.  The first two did have a displaced front buffer (loose in the box), but easily pushed back into place .   The latest replacement was all in one piece.   All the models I have tried have been free from the mechanical running problems mentioned earlier in this thread, very sure footed, and quiet motors .  Lets hope it stays that way. 

 

I guess my experience with the Mogul may say something about Dapol quality control or I have just  been lucky with my Bachmann, Hornby, Heljan models and the Dapol class 122 diesel rail car - where I have never encountered any issues (apart from checking back to backs).    

 

I may be brave and remove the loco body to add some silver paint to the back of the motor housing to improve the firebox flicker. On the other hand maybe I will leave well alone.   

 

I will add a sound decoder, crew, coal, lamps  and weather it.  

 

Thanks again to all who gave suggestions and advice in my quest to identify the problems.  

 

P.S I could never see the firebox flicker on any of the locos when I operated them on DC

I was just coming on to ask about what the consensus is then on the running qualities, as it seems that a few people have definitely reported having good runners. I think, from memory, the DCC-fitted ones seem to be performing better. I cant recall a DC owner posting that they had a perfect runner, but happy to be corrected. I am debating what to do, whether to return and see if I get a good 'un, or just stick.

[Gopher]

2 hours ago, Adrock said:

I was just coming on to ask about what the consensus is then on the running qualities, as it seems that a few people have definitely reported having good runners. I think, from memory, the DCC-fitted ones seem to be performing better. I cant recall a DC owner posting that they had a perfect runner, but happy to be corrected. I am debating what to do, whether to return and see if I get a good 'un, or just stick.

I think it is a tough call Adrock.  There are definitely some faulty locos out there (in my case electrical faults), the three I have tried have all been mechanically sound and ran beautifully (mechanically) on DC (albeit with the usual buzz you get from running a non chipped loco on a DCC layout).  No adjustments necessary not even back to backs.  I'd go as far as to say that this is the best runner I have with a front bogie.  I tested it by taking it through some of my more complex point work at speed (forward and reverse).  This included three way points, double slips, and cross overs.  Not a hint of derailing.  Some of my other locos have to be driven carefully to avoid potential derailments.  So I am not sure that DCC fitted ones do perform better mechanically .   In my case my problem was with the DCC/PCB circuitry on the two faulty locos I had.  

 

Looking at the posts on this forum there seem to be more examples of poor runners with mechanical issues.   I have no idea what percentage of locos sold have some kind of fault.   My local model shop has been brilliant in replacing my faulty loco- but they tell me I am the only person they have sold these locos to who has encountered  electrical issues, so I am in the minority.   I also got the impression from talking to them they have had very few returns (possibly only mine).  

 

   

[melmerby]

3 minutes ago, Gopher said:

   I have no idea what percentage of locos sold have some kind of fault.   My local model shop has been brilliant in replacing my faulty loco- but they tell me I am the only person they have sold these locos to who has encountered  electrical issues, so I am in the minority.

 

 

They'll be putting a black mark against you for being a difficult customer

[Gopher]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

They'll be putting a black mark against you for being a difficult customer

I must admit I felt a bit like that, even though they know me well and I have been a customer of theirs for many years.  They have been brilliant, but still did not stop me apologising for being a pain.  Hopefully they will forgive me.     

[Mallard60022]

Just a note here that I am aware that many RM Sorting Offices are having a torrid time at the moment due to the CV 19 working protocols, Staff having to isolate and Staff sickness. A few of the larger Depots are two weeks behind with non First Class/ not Next Day Specials. Just sayin'

Phil

[boxbrownie]

16 hours ago, melmerby said:

They'll be putting a black mark against you for being a difficult customer

As if they cared......

[adb968008]

On 10/12/2020 at 09:12, melmerby said:

Mine was showing in the local District Office and to be delivered on the 1st December.

 

"Your Item was received by Moseley DO on 01-12-2020 and is now due for delivery today."

 

It wasn't delivered and the tracking hasn't changed, since then.

 

maybe worth bringing to RMs attention if your having so many issues.

ive had a record amount of stuff delivered this year (lockdown and all), one day RM sent their own man and van as we had 17 boxes !- just dont ask, not all trains !

 

But so far this year theyve been spot on, only at the start of lockdown, and the last 7 days have I seen a marked slow down..

RM has been excellant for me (ive also sold best part of 200 items in my clearout and not yet dropped the ball on any either).

 

but that said, the slow to arrive boxes (7-10 days +) are all from the same retailer in Sheffield... everyone elses stuff is currently with 6 days or less in nov/dec vice 3-4 days usual for 2nd class, so ive enough anecdotal evidence to say that I think they are having shipping issues... ive 5 items from them “in the mail”, the most recent being 4 days ago off ebay, has only just got a despatch tracking number, but has not yet been despatched, yet the components needed for said model, bought same time/day, are already sitting next to me... so its not all RM delays.

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008