OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[The Stationmaster]

The big problem with 'steam sound' is taht it would need to be very sophisticated (aka expensive?) to replicate the real thing.  Synching with driving wheel revolutions is one thing but how can you reasonably reproduce the opening/closing of the regulator, turning on/off the blower, and notching up?   To get it right you've got to have those abilities in the system before you even stand a chance of getting it right.   Then you've got to 'drive' your engines accordingly.

[The Johnster]

What he said, with the addition of a sonsor to detect when the model is actually slipping and react accordingly.  All of which costs money and takes up space, which may be available in big tender locos but would be of  no use to me (in some imagined situation where I could afford DCC) unless it can be shoehorned into my W4.  And sound, for me, is one of those 'if you can't do it properly, don't bother because you are actually detracting from the realism, however well intentioned your efforts' things.  Steam locomotives, real ones, give a lot of audible information as to how hard they are working, their overall mechanical position, and the regulator and reverser settings, which can be presumably incorporated on a DCC sound model by monitoring the load on the motor, but this won't be enough to do the job properly as the model loco will not necessarily perform in the same way as the prototype in any given situation.

[boxbrownie]

Of course you’ll be missing the cinders dropping on the track also.......

[tomparryharry]

3 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Of course you’ll be missing the cinders dropping on the track also.......

If you're working in the  larger scales, don't forget the fag ends.....

[boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

If you're working in the  larger scales, don't forget the fag ends.....

That’s one form of pollution we can easily live without......but never give up Anthacite and Steam Oil 

[MatthewCarty]

Thank you for everyone's replies, it has really given plenty of information and lots to think about before I decide whether to try it or not! Hearing all the opinions really is an unbeatable resource when it comes to these sort of decisions!

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

What he said, with the addition of a sonsor to detect when the model is actually slipping and react accordingly.

Some of the better decoders have a "cam" input to synchronise the sound to the wheel revolutions.

[boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Some of the better decoders have a "cam" input to synchronise the sound to the wheel revolutions.

And a lot of the US and European Locos have the cam facility for that very reason, once again our models lag behind a few decades, we’ll catch up.........eventually.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

And a lot of the US and European Locos have the cam facility for that very reason, once again our models lag behind a few decades, we’ll catch up.........eventually.

The Tri-ang B12 had it decades ago...

[No Decorum]

20 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The big problem with 'steam sound' is taht it would need to be very sophisticated (aka expensive?) to replicate the real thing.  Synching with driving wheel revolutions is one thing but how can you reasonably reproduce the opening/closing of the regulator, turning on/off the blower, and notching up?   To get it right you've got to have those abilities in the system before you even stand a chance of getting it right.   Then you've got to 'drive' your engines accordingly.

One of the good things about a good steam project is that you do have to drive it. Many have a “coast” button, which allows the locomotive to clank along without chuffing. With others, reduce the controller by one step and the chuffing dies away. There is usually a function for turning the blower on and off and notching up can be programmed in automatically. There is a choice between light engine sounds and an engine under load. Sometimes, there is also the choice of a run-down locomotive with a leaky gland and clattering motion. Before TTS came along, I was doubtful about Hornby’s steam sound. I have come to the conclusion that they were tuned to decelerate quickly, with loud chuffing resuming very quickly once a lower speed was reached, in order to operate on a small, round layout. Current projects are better than that and, of course, it is possible to programme the decoder to change acceleration and deceleration rates.

 

There is no getting away from it, decent steam sound is expensive. TTS diesel, on the other hand, is much more acceptable and a lot cheaper, especially if not bought separately.

 

The lack of synchronised sound in steam TTS is one thing frequently mentioned. Less frequently mentioned is that the chuff rates seems to notch up in sudden steps. It isn’t the way a steam locomotive works at all.

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The Tri-ang B12 had it decades ago...

So did the Flying Scotsman I had.....albeit in the tender 

 

[Tim Hall]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The Tri-ang B12 had it decades ago...

Frankly, it sounded more realistic than some DCC sound locos I've heard, and a lot cheaper!

[The Johnster]

On 12/01/2021 at 16:47, The Johnster said:

sonsor

Or perhaps sensor.  A sonsor would not work well at all in this situation.

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Or perhaps sensor.  A sonsor would not work well at all in this situation.

 

It could be censor. but you can't go to the railway room on your own!

[The Johnster]

Or senser, which is the thing they swing in Catholic churches with the incense. 
 

But it’s sensor.

[melmerby]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Or senser, which is the thing they swing in Catholic churches with the incense. 
 

But it’s sensor.

No. That's a censer.

It would provide authentic, if unusual smelling smoke to your layout.

[No Decorum]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Or senser, which is the thing they swing in Catholic churches with the incense. 
 

But it’s sensor.

An unOrthodox spelling?

Edited January 14, 2021 by No Decorum

[Oldddudders]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Or senser, which is the thing they swing in Catholic churches with the incense. 
 

But it’s sensor.

And High-Church CofE. Not every atheist knows that. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 11/01/2021 at 13:32, TheSignalEngineer said:

The only problem I have is the pony truck occasionally derailing on the straight side of the first set of points on the main line after leaving one end of the fiddle yard. Investigation to follow when I have cleared out all of the junk stacked in front of the layout over Christmas.

Investigatio completed. I checked the BtoB but that was OK. The closed switch of the point for the straight road was slightly curved so the toe was standing slightly off causing the wheel flange to ride up and then fall outside the rail. Slight bending and job cured so not loco fault, although it is the only one of my stud which did it.

[Miss Prism]

 

There can't be many places with wooded slopes so steep, and the milk tank or two on the rear might help spot the location.
 

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

 

There can't be many places with wooded slopes so steep, and the milk tank or two on the rear might help spot the location.
 

Also sharply curved. Not often you see a check rail one side immediately followed by the other so probably alternating sub-10 chain curves.

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Also sharply curved. Not often you see a check rail one side immediately followed by the other so probably alternating sub-10 chain curves.

Which implies a river or estuarial location. The Cambrian seems a possibility. 

[melmerby]

Dee valley near Llangollen?

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

There can't be many places with wooded slopes so steep, and the milk tank or two on the rear might help spot the location.
 

 

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Also sharply curved. Not often you see a check rail one side immediately followed by the other so probably alternating sub-10 chain curves.

 

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Which implies a river or estuarial location. The Cambrian seems a possibility. 

 

Fair old hill or mountainside there and twisty.  I know it really isn't but that is Conwy valley (Blaenau FF) twisty !!.

Not sure whether it could be the Cambrian because of the milk tanks. My money would probably be on Devon or Cornwall.  Has anyone checked the allocation history of the loco - was it 6375 ?

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

There can't be many places with wooded slopes so steep, and the milk tank or two on the rear might help spot the location.
 

It reasonably well matches the curve past Mugglewort Wood not far from Longhope on the Hereford - Gloucester line and the gradient also matches that location but the second checkrail doesn't.  However that doesn't readily fit the engine allocation on BR Database although it was at Worcester from 1960 to 1962 before going to Oxley then Croes Newydd then Salop and finally Carmarthen for a short while (possibly a paper transfer as it was only there for 3 months prior to withdrawal).

 

I can't find a real good match for it on the Barnstaple branch - one comes near but the gradient is wrong and the engine had been at Taunton for 4 years prior to going to Worcester in 1960. 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by The Stationmaster