OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[boxbrownie]

5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Elderly transfers benefit from a spray of varnish before being used - would Letraset respond similarly? Not worth not trying?

No it wouldn’t help, Letraset is an ink film which is transferred to a surface by “dry rubbing” on the transfer sheet, if the ink was sprayed it wouldn’t stick to the surface.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I still have sheets of Letraset of varying sizes and typeface

 

I should still have some but haven't seen the folder they were in for years.

Probably went out in a move

[melmerby]

You used to be able to get model railway lettering & lining that was the same principle as Letraset, I might still have some.

You pressed it on and varnished over. Never seemed to quite good enough with little flecks missing after application.

 

[The Johnster]

On 30/11/2021 at 16:38, Hymek17 said:

Got mine this afternoon. It's a bit heavier than the Hornby model, but the driving wheels are around 1mm too small. Quite noticeable when next to Hornby's model. Not had a chance to run it yet though!

Suitable for renumbering as an 81xx, then.

[97xx]

Like many, I watched the Sam's Trains review.

 

It was looking very positive until I spotted the buffer glued in an an upwards angle and the things really went Pete Tong when he tried to run it, and it was frankly useless. Plus he did very fairly run it in each way for 30 mins which one might hope would ease any acceptable newness/tightness.

 

But it still did not work in any way acceptably.

 

Why didn't I hear him saying "it's going back".

 

Am I missing something, or is there just a general acceptance of such grossly sub-standard products?  If everyone accepts this low standard, then that is what we will get.

 

I anticipate some won't like my use of the word 'grossly' ahead of substandard. But a loco that basically won't run seems to fail in the same way as a roof with a huge hole in it.

 

However, if the balance of opinion here from those who have bought one is that it's excellent, then fair enough and I'd have to accept that QA allows the odd duff one through.

[The Johnster]

I don't like sending stuff back, and prefer to sort things out myself if I can.  Often the problem is a minor tweak, such as tightening or loosening keeper plate screws a quarter turn or checking tha all the pickup wipers are bearing correctly on the wheel backs across the entire range of the sideplay.  But there is no doubt that if the problem is any more serious than that level of fettling, then the model should go back if it's under warranty, or if the owner does not feel comfortably confident with doing the fettling.

 

Sam is Sam, he am wot he am, and he's like Marmite.  The Squeeze think's he's hilarious, and I find him a bit gushy for my taste, but one can glean useful information from his vids; by observing what is going on rather than paying any attention to his inane prattling, but useful information nonentheless.  Compared to SDJR88's vids, which show the models in action in a scenic setting, he does show the locos' slow running and response to the controller, and gives you an idea of haulage.  But I can only take him in short doses.

 

His diatribe against the 'rip off' Hornby large prairie is frankly ridiculous.  I wonder how much the Dap is going to cost nearly a year after it's release; the release prices of the models were pretty close, and that is a fairer comparison.  Comparing the two locos shows roundabouts and swings; credit to Dap for including three features I've been banging on about for ages, separate smokebox number plate, removable coal with detailed bunker interior underneath, and removable cab roof, but the Hornby scores with better whistle detail, and I cannot agree with Sam about the safety valve bonnet, it looks hopelessly wrong and cheaply gold-plated to me.  I've had my Hornby in service for 11 months now and am very happy with it, but it is improved by extra ballast.

 

 

[Jenks465]

2 hours ago, 97xx said:

Like many, I watched the Sam's Trains review.

 

It was looking very positive until I spotted the buffer glued in an an upwards angle and the things really went Pete Tong when he tried to run it, and it was frankly useless. Plus he did very fairly run it in each way for 30 mins which one might hope would ease any acceptable newness/tightness.

 

But it still did not work in any way acceptably.

 

Why didn't I hear him saying "it's going back".

 

Am I missing something, or is there just a general acceptance of such grossly sub-standard products?  If everyone accepts this low standard, then that is what we will get.

 

I anticipate some won't like my use of the word 'grossly' ahead of substandard. But a loco that basically won't run seems to fail in the same way as a roof with a huge hole in it.

 

However, if the balance of opinion here from those who have bought one is that it's excellent, then fair enough and I'd have to accept that QA allows the odd duff one through.

 

This was my one that arrived on Tuesday.....

 

 

Went back on Wednesday morning!

[Harlequin]

The thing with the polished safety valve bonnet is that you can take it down fairly easily but if they gave you a dull one you'd have a hell of time trying to make it look more shiny.

 

A few other points:

The Hornby firebox top is too domed. The Dapol gets that right.

The Hornby front steps splay out. The Dapol front steps are vertical, as they should be.

The driving wheels on the Dapol are under size, as someone pointed out above - 21.97mm which equates to 5ft 5 and 9/10 inches. (Should be 22.66mm for 5ft 8in.)

 

Both mine have now been chipped and are running perfectly fine. I've had 5109 hauling 12 coaches round my test track easily. Videos to follow.

 

The only issue I really have with them are the gaps between tanks and running plate and the next thing on my list is to try to unclip the body from the footplate and see what the problem really is. I imagine there's a burr or a moulding pip somewhere preventing them coming together properly.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Harlequin

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Jenks465 said:

 

This was my one that arrived on Tuesday.....

 

 

Went back on Wednesday morning!

A shame. The issue seems widespread..

[tomparryharry]

This discussion about Hornby & Dapol having different wheel diameters is based within historic fact. The diameter of a driving wheel tyre will lose several inches during successive visits to factory, until the tyre goes down to its scrapping size. In more recent times, either KE1 or KE2 had new tyres, and were then turned down to almost scrapping size on purpose. The locomotive had to fit under the loading gauge. 

 

1mm?  Don't sweat it, folks.... 

[E100]

On 02/12/2021 at 03:47, lofty1966 said:

I really can't take him seriously what with that most appalling "layout" on the carpet and then onto one of the crappiest decorated "scenery" sections I've ever seen!

TBF to Sam he's always maintained that he doesn't see himself in the loft long term so will do a proper layout when he moves. I assume the scenery was from when he was younger. I also like that the track work is rubbish in many ways as it means if it runs on his then it gives me confidence it should run fine on mine and probably 95% of the layouts out there. The thing I do like about him is that he will criticise when it's called for (granted he sometimes goes too far / down a rabbit hole / economics isn't his strong suit but at least he speaks his mind). Far too much of the railway modelling media seem to give the manufactures a nearly free pass when they really shouldn't with the prices the way they are.

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The only issue I really have with them are the gaps between tanks and running plate and the next thing on my list is to try to unclip the body from the footplate and see what the problem really is. I imagine there's a burr or a moulding pip somewhere preventing them coming together properly.

 

 

Very commendable @Harlequin but if we keep fixing their errors or trying to ,how will Dapol's QC ever improve. If they get a lot of returned models they might do something about it. I'm still on the fence with this model and this flaw doesn't convince me to part with my folding.

[Ian Hargrave]

Much as I’d like to reply to this ,discussion on Sam’s Trains has been brought to a halt on by Mods on the thread dealing with the Hornby TV programme as being off topic.So please to avoid this happening here,can we remain on discussing the subject of Dapol’s new prairie .Thanks.

[Harlequin]

Here are my two running:

 

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Much as I’d like to reply to this ,discussion on Sam’s Trains has been brought to a halt on by Mods on the thread dealing with the Hornby TV programme as being off topic.So please to avoid this happening here,can we remain on discussing the subject of Dapol’s new prairie .Thanks.

I would have thought a review by whoever it was pointing out a fault with the Dapol model he bought was very much on topic.

Hey Ho……here we go……

[Harlequin]

9 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Very commendable @Harlequin but if we keep fixing their errors or trying to ,how will Dapol's QC ever improve. If they get a lot of returned models they might do something about it. I'm still on the fence with this model and this flaw doesn't convince me to part with my folding.

 

I'm just curious to understand the problem and I need to hack the body anyway to fit a bigger speaker.

 

I'm not suggesting anyone else tries to disconnect the body from the running plate casting because it's not going to be easy - I'm not even sure where all the clipping points are yet.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I would have thought a review by whoever it was pointing out a fault with the Dapol model he bought was very much on topic.

Hey Ho……here we go……

Apparently not it seems and I was one in the thick of it when the whistle was blown. Don’t shoot the messenger 

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks Phil for a revealing and informative video. Your model is chipped.All the other examples of the Prairie viewed appear as DC only and they all have issues with pointwork.Yours has none of these difficulties. The question is why ? If a reason for this is found,we’re on the way to a solution.

[Michael Hodgson]

22 hours ago, melmerby said:

You used to be able to get model railway lettering & lining that was the same principle as Letraset, I might still have some.

You pressed it on and varnished over. Never seemed to quite good enough with little flecks missing after application.

 

You still can.  

HMRS market it as Pressfix, they also do them as Methfix 

https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/faq

 

[john dew]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Here are my two running:

 

Thann

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by john dew
Fat thumb

[john dew]

Thank you so much for posting that video. It has given me great encouragement as I anxiously wait for mine to cross the Atlantic and then North America.

 

I think Ian’s post which pointed that all (? ) of the negative reports where analogue whereas your locos were DCC fitted and not with any old chip but Zimo. 
 

In the last year or so I have received Hornby Prairies, Dapol Moguls, Bachmann 94xx and the Heljan Railcar. Both the Prairies and 94xx performed abysmally out of the box. While waiting for Zimo chips to arrive I tested all of the above with spare decoders ( usually Lenz) …….there was a marked improvement in performance……..and when the Zimos were fitted an even greater improvement……they are all ultra reliable over some quite indifferent track. (The prairies of course also had to have weight and stay alive added. The 94xx also had SA added.)

 

Did you have to clean the wheels and or adjust the pickups? I notice this wasnt mentioned in Sam’s review but I almost always find the wheels of new locos need cleaning.

 

Wil let you know how I get on with the Dapol when it eventually arrives in Vancouver

 

Best wishesl

 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Thanks Phil for a revealing and informative video. Your model is chipped.All the other examples of the Prairie viewed appear as DC only and they all have issues with pointwork.Yours has none of these difficulties. The question is why ? If a reason for this is found,we’re on the way to a solution.

Do you not mean “If a reason for this is found Dapol’s on the way to a solution.” 

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, john dew said:

Thank you so much for posting that video. It has given me great encouragement as I anxiously wait for mine to cross the Atlantic and then North America.

 

I think Ian’s post which pointed that all (? ) of the negative reports where analogue whereas your locos were DCC fitted and not with any old chip but Zimo. 
 

In the last year or so I have received Hornby Prairies, Dapol Moguls, Bachmann 94xx and the Heljan Railcar. Both the Prairies and 94xx performed abysmally out of the box. While waiting for Zimo chips to arrive I tested all of the above with spare decoders ( usually Lenz) …….there was a marked improvement in performance……..and when the Zimos were fitted an even greater improvement……they are all ultra reliable over some quite indifferent track. (The prairies of course also had to have weight and stay alive added. The 94xx also had SA added.)

 

Did you have to clean the wheels and or adjust the pickups? I notice this wasnt mentioned in Sam’s review but I almost always find the wheels of new locos need cleaning.

 

Wil let you know how I get on with the Dapol when it eventually arrives in Vancouver

 

Best wishesl

 

 

Thanks John.

 

No, I did nothing to the mechanisms at all, just cleaned the track - and in fact I only cleaned the main lines, not the crossover.

 

I looked at the pickups on 5108 and I could see that one wasn't making contact when the axle was at the extreme of it's travel. But that's not unusual for any loco, in my experience.

 

The Zimo decoders could be making a difference because they are the best, IMHO, but I wonder if SetTrack vs. Streamline might also be part of the answer.

 

BTW: I should add that they aren't perfect - they do stop occasionally. But so does every other loco I've got apart from those with huge Stay-Alive capacity in them...

 

I hope your Dapol Prairie runs smoothly when you get it!

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Harlequin

[JST]

3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Here are my two running:

 

 This cheers me up no end. Very smooth. Can't wait for my factory sound version to arrive!

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Do you not mean “If a reason for this is found Dapol’s on the way to a solution.” 

In a perfect world..I would hope that by now they’d be getting the message that all is not well.