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Paul.Uni

OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

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I can't wait to see a new rtr manor with 21 century detailing I'm desperate for about 5 of them. 

 

Regards Neil 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, melmerby said:

I suggested this but it's been pointed out that the mech is already a very tight fit in the Grange body, so would be impossibly to fit into the smaller Manor body moulding.  And as Kieth's just said, the Manor is shorter (look at the rear splasher), because the no.14 boiler is both smaller in diameter and shorter than the Grange's no.1.  This could have implications for the backhead detail clearing the rear of the motor; my suggested Airfix prairie scheme would be easier than this, and I only ever claimed that that was cheap and immediate, not that it was easy... 

 

So it's back to the waiting game, a kit chassis, or adapting a Dapol Mogul/Prairie mech.  The Manor has to be about the biggest open goal on the market at the moment, with the Swindon 3 car Cross Country dmu running it a close second.  Somebody must be working on one somewhere, surely, but with the Bachmann 94xx having been in the pipeline for 4 years it could still be a while!  A thought occurs that a Manor is very similar in several of it's important dimensions to a BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0, and it might be possible to adapt this for an old Mainline loco, retaining the Mainline bogie, cylinders, and running gear and replacing the driving wheels with the Grange's.  Haven't really worked out the implications of this, just thinking aloud, only with a keyboard...

 

It probably all falls down on the pitch of the boiler, though.

Edited by The Johnster

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The Bachmann Manor body has been shoehorned onto a Hornby Grange chassis before on RMWeb.......and rather nice it looked too!

 

The modeller in question ended his post by saying "I'm now holding my breath to see if Bachmann upgrade their Manor in 2010 and make all this work a waste of time!".

 

I sincerely hope he WASN'T holding his breath!!!!!

 

 

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38 minutes ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

The Bachmann Manor body has been shoehorned onto a Hornby Grange chassis before on RMWeb.......and rather nice it looked too!

 

 

 

Unfortunately no internal piccys were forthcoming!

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I have hacked an Airfix 61xx chassis to fit inside a spare Bachmann mogul body.

IMG_20190609_2227081_rewind.jpg.09b45192cb613f64528ea26809cca28d.jpgIMG_20190609_2227355_rewind.jpg.ddbdba19b49122b524e83985553447eb.jpg

It should also fit inside a Manor body if required.

IMG_20190609_2229130_rewind.jpg.026a764b7badb5921f4addf8e30e77f4.jpg

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Or you could do this (mogul):

mogul.jpg.b6da8751d5529c17b19e68e6d33cc8db.jpg

 

Comet chassis, original Mainline boiler underside.

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This thread is like a spinning racing car: If you're lucky, after a lot of smoke, with metal and plastic flying everywhere, it eventually ends up on the track again pointing in the right direction...

:smile_mini:

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2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

This thread is like a spinning racing car: If you're lucky, after a lot of smoke, with metal and plastic flying everywhere, it eventually ends up on the track again pointing in the right direction...

:smile_mini:

It's half right. It's a GWR Mogul, just not Dapol!

That's good going for RMWeb:jester:

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15 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

This is exactly the sort of thing I meant, Nick, and as you say if it can be fitted into a Mogul bodyshell there should be no difficulty in fitting it inside a Manor.  And it looks as if the motor is clear of the cab as well.

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22 hours ago, melmerby said:

Unfortunately no internal piccys were forthcoming!

I've re-linked to the 2009 article describing how a Mainline/Bachmann Manor body was adapted to fit a Hornby Grange chassis.....and vice-versa.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5712-Bachmann-manor-modification-with-Hornby-grange-chassis/&do=findComment&comment=46632

 

In case the link still doesn't work I've also attached the relevant images. A very nice piece of modelling IMO.

 

image.png

image.png

image.png

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Posted (edited)

Interesting to read that some posters reckoned an updated Bachmann Manor was on the cards a decade ago...

Edited by The Johnster

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Well, that may just have been because then Bachmann MD Graham Hubbard gave a published interview in 2007, in which the Manor and 43xx were listed among their split chassis models planned for update to conventional DCC ready mechanisms. (The explanation for the paucity of Southern steam in their range was also given: our dealers tell us there isn't the demand for what is currently available.)

 

It was unusually blunt for the model railway press of the time: on EMU's it was (my paraphrase from memory) 'Right, we are trying out the market with the 4-CEP, because it's a long lived, multi livery subject practical for us to do (on the back of their mk1 tooling) to assess whether a good model will sell. If you really want EMU's, put up the cash. Because if you don't, there won't be any more...'

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No news recently on the Prairie. Perhaps they have had second thoughts? Or are redesigning for a different variant? 

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On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 23:23, Hilux5972 said:

No news recently on the Prairie. Perhaps they have had second thoughts? ...

The manifest elephant in the room is Hornby's new model. Wouldn't you have second thoughts? Between a great heap of second hand legacy models, and a new model that will probably be out of Hornby's top drawer and on sale for at least two years before your competing product emerges, is likely to be very unrewarding.

 

And there's no reason in the world to come in a long way second to the dominant RTR OO provider, when there are still plenty of attractive subjects that have never had even a poor RTR OO model. Staying close to home, there has never been a RTR model of any of the Welsh locos that were absorbed by the GWR.

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Quite agree. Whilst there is a danger of wishlisting, but an Aberdare is a big gap in the Churchward stable and a few lasted into BR days. As you say there are some very long lived Welsh classes but the problem will be the GWR liked to standardise the better classes.

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28 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Staying close to home, there has never been a RTR model of any of the Welsh locos that were absorbed by the GWR.

 

Some Welsh locos do feature in the last RMweb wishlist poll, which ran Oct-Nov 2018. The votes and the GWR list was:

 

421 GWR Manor 4-6-0 (7800-7829)
292 GWR Hawksworth 15xx 0-6-0PT (1500-1509)
258 GWR Saint 29xx 4-6-0 (2902-2989 with gaps)
236 GWR Hawksworth County 4-6-0 (1000-1029)
232 GWR Bulldog 33xx 4-4-0 (3341-3455)
222 GWR Great Bear 4-6-2
202 GWR Aberdare 2-6-0 (2612-2680 with gaps)
165 GWR Duke 4-4-0 (9054-9091, originally 3252-3291, 3312-3331)
163 GWR 'Metro' Tank 2-4-0T (GWR various but mainly in range 1401-1500 & 3561-3599, both with gaps)
148 GWR 517 Class 0-4-2T (GWR between 517 & 1488 with gaps)
143 Port Talbot No.26 0-6-0ST (GWR 813)
142 GWR Collett 54xx/74xx 0-6-0PT (5400-5424, 7400-7449)
136 GWR Collett 57xx/8750 0-6-0PT (3600-9799 with many gaps)
132 GWR Collett 2251 0-6-0 (2200-2299, 3200-3219)
120 GWR Avonside 1101 0-4-0T (1101-1106)
104 SHT/P&M Peckett E Class 0-4-0ST (as in GWR/BR livery) (1141, 1143, 1145, 1150-1152)
102 GWR Collett 57xx Condensing 0-6-0PT (9700-9710)
97 Cardiff Railway Kitson 0-4-0ST (1338)
96 TVR A 0-6-2T (303-399 with gaps)
92 GWR Dean 2021/2181 0-6-0PT (2021-2160, 2181-2190)
87 Cambrian 89 Jones Goods 0-6-0 (844, 849, 855, 864, 873, 887, 892-896)
79 MSWJR Dubs 2-4-0 (1334-1336)
77 Rhymney Railway R 0-6-2T (30-32, 34-44, 46)
72 BPGVR Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T (2162, 2165, 2167, 2168, 2198)
72 Barry Railway Class B1 0-6-2T (198-277 with many gaps)
71 GWR Dean 1901 (850) 0-6-0PT (992, 1903-2019 with many gaps)
 

(Models already announced by the time of the poll being run are not included in any results, iirc. Hence no Prairie - the Dapol announcement was Dec 2017, although the Hornby announcement came after the poll, in late 2018.)

 

I think the 'Welsh problem' is that the best of the Welsh locos (the 0-6-2Ts) look so similar to the Collett 56xx (not surprising, Collett copied them!), and the 94xx replaced them in the last decade and a half of steam. And note the absence of the 56xx in the above list.

 

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Posted (edited)

Has there been any recent progress updates at all regarding the mogul? It's all gone very quite since earlier this year. 

 

I'm somewhat surprised that Dapol have not* dropped the Prairie in favour of a Manor; there must quite a few synergies - drive train and tender - with the Mogul?

 

CoY

 

*missing from my original post! 

Edited by County of Yorkshire
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11 minutes ago, County of Yorkshire said:

I'm somewhat surprised that Dapol have dropped the Prairie in favour of a Manor; there must quite a few synergies - drive train and tender - with the Mogul?

 

It's true that Dapol has gone very quiet over the Mogul development, the last public activity being 12 months ago.

 

I am not aware Dapol has said anything about dropping its Prairie, let alone announcing a Manor.

 

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57 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

A 3150 would provide a useful addition to the prairie stud.

 

A perusal of the Hornby thread indicates the vanilla 41/51/61xx is not the only variant Hornby is considering and making allowance for in its tool design. Whether they jump in and actually do another variant is another matter, of course, and it would be a brave move to do a No 4 boiler 3150.

 

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Hello Miss Prism

 

May I make a small clarification to your statement above? 

 

You said: Some Welsh locos do feature in the last RMweb wishlist poll, which ran Oct-Nov 2018. 

 

The annual Wishlist Poll is totally independent but is hosted by RMweb - not 'owned' or 'run' by it. Andy York kindly prepares the 'computerised aspects' for us in a voluntary role; neither he nor Warners etc has any 'influence' on the content.

 

Not wishing 'to be pedantic' - just clear.:)

 

(The Poll will be running in October and those locos plus a couple more will be available to vote on. The 56xx is going back in as we have moved the cut-off date to 1 January 2005. I don't really want to answer any questions yet - there will be an 'Advance Notice' in ample time.)

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

The annual Wishlist Poll is totally independent but is hosted by RMweb - not 'owned' or 'run' by it.

 

Thanks, Brian. I am corrected.

 

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Hello Miss Prism

 

Thanks for the understanding. We always try to make it clear - for Andy York's benefit. If we get 'negative comment', then Andy is not part of it.

 

(Negative comment? The Poll?...perish the thought!)

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

A perusal of the Hornby thread indicates the vanilla 41/51/61xx is not the only variant Hornby is considering and making allowance for in its tool design. Whether they jump in and actually do another variant is another matter, of course, and it would be a brave move to do a No 4 boiler 3150.

 

 

Apologies Miss, I left out ‘not’ - see amended post above. Although you could say that my slip-up was somewhat Freudian in a way... 

 

Hornby have never struck me as a model manufacturer who makes a divergent tooling suite to produce similar - but quite different - locos, and so if we ever saw a 3150 it would a pleasant, but big, surprise in my view. 

 

Talking of Dapol and GWR stock, I am also struggling to understand their neglecting of the open goal which is shrinking their O Gauge Autocoach and B-Set down 4mm... Their K41/42 should be scaled up from N gauge too. 

 

CoY

 

Edited by County of Yorkshire
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