OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[melmerby]

There was also variation in smokebox length, mentioned in RCTS vol 9

[Hal Nail]

25 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

On the other hand one could always trust that Dapol did their research!

True but the last two pages of meandering started with someone asking which pre 1936 locos had steampipes

 

[Cofga]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Dates they got the outside steam pipes here. I think the cylinders were slightly enlarged but it wouldn't be noticeable. Some were withdrawn before getting them.

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=126002&type=S&page=mods

 

Don't forget that 100 of the Moguls were rebuilt as Manor and Grange 4-6-0s in the 1930s. 

 

Gilt for all roundels apart from those on the brown Non Passenger Coaching Stock (horseboxes, parcels vans, Siphons, etc) which were yellow.

 

Manufacturers do make mistakes when it comes to liveries. Such as the Hornby SR Brake Vans and Dapol Class 73s (where at least one was painted in a strange version of blue).

 

 

 

Jason

Thanks for the database link, very useful. If Dapol goes ahead with the yellow roundel I guess I can either replace it with the gilt decals I already have or use that as an excuse to backdate it with the Great Western lettering on the tender. My Hornby king has the yellow roundel so at least they will match!

[Marshall5]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

True but the last two pages of meandering started with someone asking which pre 1936 locos had steampipes

 

Apologies if I contributed to the "meandering" - it won't happen again.  BTW they all had steampipes but I know what you meant.

Ray.

[KGV]

Personally, I find such "meanderings" very interesting and informative and wish those knowledgeable people to continue to share their experience.

[Hal Nail]

It wasnt meant in a bad way!

[tomparryharry]

Whilst remaining safe,  I hope that Dapol are able to continue with the Prairie & Mogul projects.  Something to look forward to in these trying times. 

 

Just to clarify:- Whilst remaining safe.

 

Keep safe, everybody. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Whilst remaining safe,  I hope that Dapol are able to continue with the Prairie & Mogul projects...

Somewhat depends on their business process, just how much can happen. You would hope that everything communicated electronically could continue largely unchanged. But if people visiting Chinese factories is essential...

 

(If you think about the emphasis Jason Shron of Rapido puts on maintaining personal contact and relationships with the Chinese operation they use: there's THE problem.)

[mdvle]

Even Rapido only ends up in China a couple or so times a year.

 

It all depends on how the product development works.  For example, Rapido just sent out a newsletter where they state that their product development team has been working on overdrive.

 

For the most part model train stuff in China is back to normal (they aren't located in the most Covid area of Wuhan), and for most manufacturers the day to day interaction with China (email/video conferencing) can be done at home just as easily as at the office.

 

Those that do the CAD outside of China may have more of a problem if their designers don't have an appropriate computer at home, but there are ways around that.

 

So for the short term this will have little impact on product development, but the possibility for problems increases the longer a trip to China has to be postponed.

[Neal Ball]

On 25/04/2020 at 17:22, mdvle said:

Even Rapido only ends up in China a couple or so times a year.

 

It all depends on how the product development works.  For example, Rapido just sent out a newsletter where they state that their product development team has been working on overdrive.

 

For the most part model train stuff in China is back to normal (they aren't located in the most Covid area of Wuhan), and for most manufacturers the day to day interaction with China (email/video conferencing) can be done at home just as easily as at the office.

 

Those that do the CAD outside of China may have more of a problem if their designers don't have an appropriate computer at home, but there are ways around that.

 

So for the short term this will have little impact on product development, but the possibility for problems increases the longer a trip to China has to be postponed.

The real issue now becomes one if spending power.... the economic climate will look very different when these locos arrive.

 

Will anything sell in the same quantities? Will unemployment rise? Will a lot of businesses close for good?

 

Sadly the reality is that all three questions are likely to hold true, which could affect future plans.....

 

We are living through very strange and unprecedented times...

 

Stay safe folks.

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

The real issue now becomes one if spending power.... the economic climate will look very different when these locos arrive.

 

Will anything sell in the same quantities? Will unemployment rise? Will a lot of businesses close for good?

 

Sadly the reality is that all three questions are likely to hold true, which could affect future plans.....

 

We are living through very strange and unprecedented times...

 

Absolutely, with a but.

 

Making model trains is capital intensive - all the costs are paid up front, often into double digit months ahead, and that makes them the proverbial super tanker.  They can't just change things immediately.

 

While they may cut back on quantities of re-runs, unless they have an extremely healthy bank account anything that has started tooling (and hence the tooling costs are paid) will likely be going ahead as the need to recover at least some of the money that has already been spent as soon as possible.

 

So we may not see anything noticeable immediately as the reactions to conditions will take 6 to 12 months to be visible to us consumers.

 

 

 

(over in the US several of the manufacturers have started doing live Q&A sessions on Facebook. ScaleTrains gave this data.  One of their models, SD40-2 - extremely popular prototype in the 70/80s and service well into 90s and later, think Class 47 - has already had $250k in tooling since announced/released a couple of years ago with another $100k in tooling upgrades/changes for different variations currently happening - having just spent $100k it is doubtful they could delay the production run that tooling is meant for.  In the meantime another manufacturer, Athearn, indicated they have another 3 announcements to make this year on top of 3 already done - again, likely tooling has started so the hand has been forced)

[Neal Ball]

Agreed, @mdvle

 

At this stage it remains to be seen how quickly the economy bounces back.

 

We have holidays planned for June, August and September. I’ve just had a call cancelling the June one this afternoon. It’s going to take a while for things to get to a new normal :-(

[Steamport Southport]

I think this is definitely going to be a wait and see what we get.

 

The all singing and dancing "pedigree" Terrier looks like it's a dogs breakfast....

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think this is definitely going to be a wait and see what we get.

 

The all singing and dancing "pedigree" Terrier looks like it's a dogs breakfast....

 

 

 

Jason

 

Sorry Jason, I'm a bit confused. What-which terrier?

[phil-b259]

12 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Sorry Jason, I'm a bit confused. What-which terrier?

 

The One from Rails of Sheffield that has also been made by Dapol, though I wouldn't describe the end result in quite those terms.

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Sorry Jason, I'm a bit confused. What-which terrier?

 

The Dapol one seeing as we are in the Dapol part of the forum....

 

it seems to have a few issues as does the B4 (look at the cabs).

 

I was hoping they had stopped making simple errors and these were going to be outstanding models.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

Like you, I've had a quick look, and the Boxhill model appears at first glance to have a flat roof, although I'd be inclined to suggest that is a photo of a white roof, on a white background. 

 

That said, I've always used the old adage:- Caveat Emptor:- Let the buyer beware. If it's good, and it's what you want, then fine. Anyhow, this is a bit of the forum where we talk about prairies & moguls. How did we get onto terriers? 

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Like you, I've had a quick look, and the Boxhill model appears at first glance to have a flat roof, although I'd be inclined to suggest that is a photo of a white roof, on a white background. 

 

That said, I've always used the old adage:- Caveat Emptor:- Let the buyer beware. If it's good, and it's what you want, then fine. Anyhow, this is a bit of the forum where we talk about prairies & moguls. How did we get onto terriers? 

 

I was pointing out that Dapol are still making avoidable errors on their models especially one which was slated as being better than another manufacturers model which beat it to the shops by a very long time. Which is the same manufacturer that is making a rival Prairie model.

 

I wasn't discussing Terriers, just Dapol and how it may affect their models.

 

 

 

Jason

[MonsalDan]

Don't think that's quite fair.  There was believed to be an issue with the coal rails which was mostly likely the lighting.  There was an issue reported with the backsheet about the colour which is also most likely the lighting.  I think some have been a bit quick to judge without actually getting the model.

[The Johnster]

The large prairie is a difficult shape to get subjectively right, and I have never seen an RTR model that quite nails it, though the Wills kit, still available from SE Finecast, is pretty good.  The Airfix/Hornby version had the front handrail too far from the boiler which made the boiler look too small, and I fancied the smokebox door was too small as well as the impression remained on one that I replaced the handrail with shorter knobs on.  

 

Both the new Hornby and the Dapol look fine, but I've yet to see either in the flesh/plastic.  I'm impressed with the photos of the Hornby, which has some very fine detail and 'looks the part'. but the Dap is still an unknown quantity with a ? over it.  It has apparently been delayed by correcting issues highlighted here by Ms Prism, who seems happy enough with it for now, and that should be good enough for me, but I have had issues with Dap's models before and am not absolutely 100% confident of them in the way that I am with red or blue box stuff.  I may prove to be unjustifiably worried.  There is also the point that Dap are hitting the shelves £30 below H, and some differences (perhaps no sliding roof vent, or a plastic moulded whistle shield) might be forgivable.  

 

Especially against the background of a Johnster happy to accept a Limbach 94xx for now, and a worked up but still fundamentally wrong Hornby 2721.  And against frequent posts here about rejuvenating ex Mainline/early Bachmann Manors and 43xx which have a horribly wrong firebox that nobody seems to mind much.  Perfection is desirable but only for Allah, and current RTR is pretty good considering that the wheels are too close together, and I agree that it is annoying when manufacturers who could easily have got it right have got it wrong.  In this light, I find the Oxford DG acceptable, but then, I don't need one on my layout so I can pontificate to my heart's content about it; as long as my readers are aware of this they can make their own judgement on any such pontification.  

 

TPH is right, as he often is, when he tells us Caveat Empor; for example, I will not touch with a shunting pole any Hornby or Dapol 16ton steel or 7-plank mineral wagons as they have been deliberately incorrectly made wrong to fit a generic chassis of incorrect length.  But I know this; the problem is that newbies (I don't like that word, but newcomers is a PITA to type) don't and happily buy them.  Dapol's are even worse with moulded handbrakes dating to the HD period.  I would think it would be more honest if these were not marketed as 'scale models' so people could make informed decisions about buying them; Hornby's Railroad branding goes some way towards this.  I'd like to see a similar concept applied to generic wagons in PO liveries, and fanciful nice looking PO liveries for that matter.  I would be happier to trust less mendacious marketing more.

[Miss Prism]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It has apparently been delayed by correcting issues highlighted here by Ms Prism, who seems happy enough with it for now,

 

Subject to a major questionmark over the conn rod length, I am happy enough with the Dapol Mogul. At least it has been seen in the flesh.

 

For the Dapol Prairie, it is obvious considerable progress has been made since the initial CAD disaster, but it has not yet been seen in the flesh, and exists only in CAD form (and in black, which is about the worst possible possible choice for revealing things), so I reserve judgement until we get some better graphics.

 

Dapol seems to have given up on its Digest as a means of giving views and news.

 

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Dapol seems to have given up on its Digest as a means of giving views and news.

 

 

A bit of a catch-22 situation, I fear. The fear being that continued talk on a model (any model) will possibly raise expectations about things like forthcoming release and availability. If you care to look back a few years, Hornby were under intense pressure to speed up the 42-72 models release, and we didn't gain by that. With these uncertain times, it's probably grind our teeth, and sweat it out. Dapol Digest isn't much help here. If you're expecting weekly updates, it'll become counter-productive very quickly. ... "Wednesday the 10th, 11:00 hours. finished off a steam lance valve on a Prairie". "Thursday, 11th, 15:00 hours. Managed to blank off Mickey Mouse voice on new water tank".  Not very good, is it? 

 

No, let 'em get on with it. It'll be here, when it's here. 

 

Happy modelling,

Ian.  

[The Johnster]

On 12/05/2020 at 19:44, Steamport Southport said:

On 12/05/2020 at 19:28, tomparryharry said:

How did we get onto terriers? 

 

Prairie dogs?

[David Stannard]

Looks like Hattons has let the cat out of the bag again with the release date now being listed for between September and October, no one else has changed the release date yet. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/333460/dapol_4s_043_001_class_43xx_mogul_2_6_0_6336_in_gwr_green_with_great_western_lettering/stockdetail.aspx

[The Johnster]

That’s a pretty good price, and I’d expect the model to sell consistently well. I’ll be interested to see how well it performs, particularly in regard to smooth slow running, as the mech is presumably identical to the upcoming large prairie.  I will have a large prairie, next in the queue after a Baccy 94xx, and price and slow running will ‘inform’ my choice of Hornby or Dapol.