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OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie


Paul.Uni
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15 minutes ago, Br50_Kab said:

So in other words: if I want to be sure about a prototypical appearance it would be better to either go for BR green with late crest or BR black with a lot of weathering that one would have to apply with all possible risks of connectivity problems afterwards:biggrin_mini:?

 

I think everyone has different priorities concerning 'prototypical appearance'. Personally, I'd chose something with the right safety valve cover and the right firebox and correct inside/outside pipes and the right tender, i.e. the mechanicals, and worry about body colour cosmetics later.

 

15 minutes ago, Br50_Kab said:

Apart from that: you write that ~186 survived past 1959 and also, that many engines were withdrawn after the introduction of the late crest. A quick search for the Mogul on Wikipedia and other websites gives me a total production of 342 engines. If we don't count the 100 rebuilds into Granges and Manors that means that 242 should have made it into BR (maybe a few less due to age, war damage etc.). Then, 186 sounds still like a very substantial number to me. Although I have to admit that I don't know the numbers of other classes to be honest.....

 

The post-1956 demise of the Moguls can be plotted from the BRdatabase info.

 

Here's 6341 at Horton Road in dark grey, orange rust, dark brown and white livery:

 

6341-horton-road-cropped.jpg.30a700cd14b72661fb6959192ad79762.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

I've noticed a lot of the rare variations, such as BRITISH RAILWAYS on tank sides, early unlined green, lined green early crest etc etc feature on Cornish and Devon locos and I suspect whichever depot down that way did the painting (Newton Abbot?) liked to push a few through the paintshops as soon as a new set of rules came out. 

Not quite; Newton Abbott (in BR days) was a divisional main shed, but not a main works, and the painting was done at main works, for new locos and locos that had just had full overhauls.  The works (Swindon, Caerphilly, and Wolverhampton) painted according to the instruction that was in force at the time, so it is fairly safe to say that a loco painted on 31/5/48 was painted in GW style livery and lettered BRITISH RAILWAYS in GW style Egyptian serif, but an identical loco painted on 1/6/48 was in the appropriate BR standard livery and lettered BRITISH RAILWAYS in Gill Sans.  Locos were not 'pushed through the paintshops as soon as a new set of rules came out', they took their turn in the usual way. 

 

Swindon in fact did not have a proper paintshop, and locos were painted in their erecting shop bay.  For this reason, Caerphilly, which did have a proper paintshop, had a reputation for much better quality of it's finishes than Swindon; at Swindon the erecting shop bays needed to be cleared as quickly as possible for the next loco and painting was not done to the Caerphilly standard, where a loco could be released from it's erecting shop bay to the paintshop, rubbed down to bare metal, fully primed and undercoated, and several top coats put on.

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5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Locos were not 'pushed through the paintshops as soon as a new set of rules came out', they took their turn in the usual way. 

Thanks all interesting stuff.

 

As Miss Prism commented, I pick loco configuration first but usually have a preferred livery and, sods law, often find it's a less common combination than I had thought, if there is also a shed in mind! Trawling through photos usually pays off though 

 

I should stress in case anyone takes anything I said as gospel, in researching 45xx and moguls in particular, I've come across a relatively high number of locos from that area in the "rare" liveries. As to why, I was merely guessing.

 

It may well be if you look hard enough examples appear everywhere - afterall all its slightly pot luck what got photographed or which of those photos were deemed worth publishing.

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6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Not quite; Newton Abbott (in BR days) was a divisional main shed, but not a main works, and the painting was done at main works, for new locos and locos that had just had full overhauls.  The works (Swindon, Caerphilly, and Wolverhampton) painted according to the instruction that was in force at the time, so it is fairly safe to say that a loco painted on 31/5/48 was painted in GW style livery and lettered BRITISH RAILWAYS in GW style Egyptian serif, but an identical loco painted on 1/6/48 was in the appropriate BR standard livery and lettered BRITISH RAILWAYS in Gill Sans.  Locos were not 'pushed through the paintshops as soon as a new set of rules came out', they took their turn in the usual way. 

 

Swindon in fact did not have a proper paintshop, and locos were painted in their erecting shop bay.  For this reason, Caerphilly, which did have a proper paintshop, had a reputation for much better quality of it's finishes than Swindon; at Swindon the erecting shop bays needed to be cleared as quickly as possible for the next loco and painting was not done to the Caerphilly standard, where a loco could be released from it's erecting shop bay to the paintshop, rubbed down to bare metal, fully primed and undercoated, and several top coats put on.

 

I think it does in fact depend on the classification of overhaul, which dictated the level of repaint  applied to the locomotive.  Levels were from 'light casual', to 'heavy general' . Then there was 'unclassified',  which could cover a vast array of different works. Swindon & Caerphilly differed by having painting staff onsite.  At Caerphilly, the distance from the painters to the  erecting shop is-was only 150 yards.....  

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2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 

I think it does in fact depend on the classification of overhaul, which dictated the level of repaint  applied to the locomotive.  Levels were from 'light casual', to 'heavy general' . Then there was 'unclassified',  which could cover a vast array of different works. Swindon & Caerphilly differed by having painting staff onsite.  At Caerphilly, the distance from the painters to the  erecting shop is-was only 150 yards.....  

Agree.  The GWR had main works at two levels.  The top tier was Swindon, Stafford Road and (post 1925) Caerphilly.  There was then a slightly lower category of works which originally were Newton Abbot and Worcester but later additions to this tier were Oswestry and Barry.  Then the next tier below that were the Divisional main shed repair shops.

 

Newton Abbot was also far better equipped than a Divisional repair shop and even had a separate boiler shop plus better cranage capacity.  And of course it was not just a Divisional facility as engines from sheds in other Divisions were sent there for classified overhauls .e.g 1502 from Southall to quote an unusual example.  And there was also a quite large C&W works at Newton Abbot

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I have purchased a Dapol 43xx 4S-043-004S and it runs very well. The sound work well with the two speakers and I have no complaints apart from the fact that three of the buffers were lose in the box! after an initial exclamation I managed to fit all three back as they are just a push fit. I would like to know who produced the sound file as I would like to use it for a none sound fitted 43xx that I have. Any ideas would be appreciated

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19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Agree.  The GWR had main works at two levels.  The top tier was Swindon, Stafford Road and (post 1925) Caerphilly.  There was then a slightly lower category of works which originally were Newton Abbot and Worcester but later additions to this tier were Oswestry and Barry.  Then the next tier below that were the Divisional main shed repair shops.

 

Newton Abbot was also far better equipped than a Divisional repair shop and even had a separate boiler shop plus better cranage capacity.  And of course it was not just a Divisional facility as engines from sheds in other Divisions were sent there for classified overhauls .e.g 1502 from Southall to quote an unusual example.  And there was also a quite large C&W works at Newton Abbot

Yes indeed. With the rundown of south Wales steam, Caerphilly was slated for closure. With a  much reduced fleet, Barry supplanted Caerphilly in this respect, and took over the HG work.  Well, all of the work, actually. 

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1 hour ago, Chuff34006 said:

I have purchased a Dapol 43xx 4S-043-004S and it runs very well. The sound work well with the two speakers and I have no complaints apart from the fact that three of the buffers were lose in the box! after an initial exclamation I managed to fit all three back as they are just a push fit. I would like to know who produced the sound file as I would like to use it for a none sound fitted 43xx that I have. Any ideas would be appreciated

I believe the sound project is by Mr Sound Guy also known as Keith the Sound guy.  He has a website which is not always up to date with his projects.  I have not seen the Mogul on there but might be worth contacting him. 

 

P.S. I think this may be an exclusive sound project just for Dapol so may not available to purchase separately.  

Edited by Gopher
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  • 2 weeks later...

My sound fitted 6336 4S-043-001DS arrived last week and on Friday evening I had the chance to try it out on my local club's layout "Tulong" (named after the time it took to build!). It ran faultlessly, the sound quality was excellent and I could not fault the locomotive. Delighted with the purchase!

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Am I right in assuming that all of these sound fitted models are being fitted by retailers instead of the Dapol factory fitted models. I saw the other day that rails have some sound fitted moguls for over £300 on their website and can only guess the associated price was due to Rails fitting DC models themselves? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

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1 hour ago, PeteN92 said:

Am I right in assuming that all of these sound fitted models are being fitted by retailers instead of the Dapol factory fitted models. I saw the other day that rails have some sound fitted moguls for over £300 on their website and can only guess the associated price was due to Rails fitting DC models themselves? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

No I think they are all factory fitted sound, but could not swear to it.  No idea why Rails are charging so much for a sound fitted model.   I have seen them cheaper at other retailers (circa £263)   

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Those of you who were following this topic late last year may remember I mentioned my intention to design and build a replacement chassis for my Mogul in order to convert it to EM.  I have now progressed it as far as I can until the weather improves and I can paint the chassis.  I am also awaiting delivery of the motor which is on back order from High Level Kits.

 

For anyone interested please follow this link to read more about my project and to see pictures of the near completed model. 

 

Regards,

Frank   

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Hi All,

Apologies in advance, but I am going to push this discussion along two associated byways:-

 

1) I understand from my local store that the factory sound fitted versions of the upcoming  4mm Prairie and Manor are only going to be available to order direct on Dapol and that stockists are only able to order the DC and non sound DCC versions?  

2) If this is the case, why are the sound fitted Prairies not show on the Dapol web site, while the Manors are? Have Dapol closed the order books on the Prairies already?

 

Many thanks for any information (not guesses)!

 

Also, as the Manors are closely associated (in model form!) with the Moguls and Prairies, could the title of this thread be widened out to include them?

 

Best regards

Paul

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If you peruse the Dapol heading on here, then all 3 models are fairly close to each other, and normally on the same page. 

 

As a non-sound modeller (pardon? )  I'd surmise that Dapol are experiencing returns from modellers who aren't quite au fait  with the sound facility. To counteract the returns situation, I'd  (once again ) surmise that Dapol have brought the sound facilities in house, to  keep a tight rein on the issue. If so, it's an entirely pragmatic solution to the problem;  The 'right first time' approach is laudable, until you introduce the human element, and, at a distance.....

 

I should reiterate that being a DC luddite, I don't 'do' sound, or Double Curry & Chips. Therefore, I could be wrong.  But, bringing work inside is nothing new.  If there is/was a problem, and Dapol are addressing it, what's not to like?

 

Cheers,

Ian. 

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Thanks for the guesses, Ian,

 

Anyone got any evidence to back Ian's theory?

 

While I don't disagree with Ian's point about other threads on the Dapol pages, it just seemed odd to me to have a thread discussing two out of three of the current/future steam models!

 

Cheers All,

Paul

 

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42 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Thanks for the guesses, Ian,

 

Anyone got any evidence to back Ian's theory?

 

While I don't disagree with Ian's point about other threads on the Dapol pages, it just seemed odd to me to have a thread discussing two out of three of the current/future steam models!

 

Cheers All,

Paul

 

Hello Paul. It is just a theory, because I'm not party to Dapols' business decisions. However, I've been in quality meetings where situations like this crops up. Dapol might be bringing work in- house for any number of things. Quality, cost, availability, or another vendor supplies a better product in relation to the model (s ) in question.  I can only relate to my own personal background, and what I would do, and what I have done in the past.  I have taken work away from sub-contractors if they can't, or won't  deliver what's needed. 

 

As far as not having all of the pages on RMWeb in nice lines, I suggest that you raise it with Messrs York &  Parker, who could tell you why.  Remember that  topic pages appear here in chronological order, so perhaps  the Mogul & Prairie pages arrived first, followed by the Manor, which if I recall, happened that way. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tallpaul69 said:

 

While I don't disagree with Ian's point about other threads on the Dapol pages, it just seemed odd to me to have a thread discussing two out of three of the current/future steam models!

 

Cheers All,

Paul

 

Because Dapol originally announced just the Prairie & Mogul, it was sometime later the Manor was added to the mix, so at the time the post was started there wasn't a Manor.

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https://www.Dapol.co.uk/New-OO-Gauge-43xx-2-6-0-Mogul

 

4S-043-008     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5322 Khaki

4S-043-009     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 4321 Lined & Lettered Great Crest Western

4S-043-010     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5350 Great Western

4S-043-011     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 4377 GWR Shirt Button

4S-043-012     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5320 GWR

4S-043-013     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5370 BR Lined Black Early Crest

4S-043-014     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5377 BR Black Early Crest

4S-043-015     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 4358 BR Lined Green Early Crest

4S-043-016     GWR 43xx 2-6-0 Mogul 5330 BR Lined Green Late Crest

 

The recomended retail price of these models is As Follows:

DCC Ready – £167.95 DCC Fitted – £197.95 DCC Sound Fitted: £277.95

 

I can see myself getting 5322

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There's a nice photo of 5370 at Weymouth on RCTS: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-gwr/4300/ha88914a8#ha88914a8

 

Although it may well have come via the GWR line in this case, a number of these were used on WR-SR inter-regionals and thus ran over SR metals in Hampshire. So I think I shall put myself down for 5370 -- looks lovely and I was sorry not to get one of these the first time around.

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40 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

It appears as if the GWR version has the smokebox number fitted again.:banghead:

How can you tell which is the GW model?  On a plus note it looks like they’ve upgraded the slide bars and crosshead, but there is no way of telling from the video whether the gearing has been upgraded.

Frank

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6 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

How can you tell which is the GW model?  On a plus note it looks like they’ve upgraded the slide bars and crosshead, but there is no way of telling from the video whether the gearing has been upgraded.

Frank

 

All mentioned in the link in the post above.

 

 

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