3D Printing Support Structure ?

[rd84]

Hi,

 

I'm just preparing my first CAD file for 3D printing of a L&NWR platform seat in O Gauge - do I need to make up my own support structure to stop the bench collapsing while the plastic hardens or does the print company add this to my design themselves ? - even in O Gauge the seat is quite a fine and delicate structure - I have set a minimum thickness of 0.4mm which leaves some parts over scale. What is the best plastic for such a fine resolution ? FUD ? I was thinking of using Shapeways or iMaterialise - Any other suggestions ?

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

[rd84]

[thegavs]

If using shapeways they add a wax support automatically which is then removed before sending it out

[rd84]

If using shapeways they add a wax support automatically which is then removed before sending it out

Thanks for the information. I'll send the file 'as is' and see how I get on

 

Regards

Paul

[rd84]

Does anyone know if multiple objects can be put in one file for Shapeways ?

For example in my case seat bench,notice board and station sign

 

Thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

[Spitfire2865]

Does anyone know if multiple objects can be put in one file for Shapeways ?

For example in my case seat bench,notice board and station sign

 

Thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

yes *certain restrictions apply

read through shapeways material lists for info.

[Edge]

Does anyone know if multiple objects can be put in one file for Shapeways ?

For example in my case seat bench,notice board and station sign

 

Thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

 

Yes you can. However, if you are including more than two or three parts I find that its best to attach them to a 'sprue' of some kind. Material costs are largely determined by the volume of material used in the models, but each element will incur a seperate handling cost. Its often worth linking two or more parts with narrow pieces of plastic to ensure only a single model file is required. its a balancing act, because of the greater volume of machine space and materials used, but can be quite the money saver

Edited December 18, 2017 by Edge

[rd84]

Thanks for the info everyone - time to dive in at the deep end - I'll report back on how I get on.

 

Regards

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

Check minimum thicknesses for material. For the type of items you are doing I would still opt for WSF, but minimum unsupported  thickness is 0.7mm. I doubt if anyone would notice if yo increased thickness from 0.4 up to 0.7mm. 

Add a sprue to attach separate items, which may actually end up being bigger than the items themselves. Thickness often needs to be more than 1mm, as sprue can easily break and get rejected. This has happened to me. 

[Guy Rixon]

Does anyone know if multiple objects can be put in one file for Shapeways ?

For example in my case seat bench,notice board and station sign

 

Thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

 

 

Yes, but you will, IIUC, be charged extra for handling the separate parts. If printing in FUD, then they are happy for the bits to be sprued together and handled - and charged -  as a single part.

[rd84]

Check minimum thicknesses for material. For the type of items you are doing I would still opt for WSF, but minimum unsupported  thickness is 0.7mm. I doubt if anyone would notice if yo increased thickness from 0.4 up to 0.7mm. 

Add a sprue to attach separate items, which may actually end up being bigger than the items themselves. Thickness often needs to be more than 1mm, as sprue can easily break and get rejected. This has happened to me.

 

Thanks for the info. The scale thickness of the parts is about 0.2mm which I thought would be pushing my luck - so I doubled it to 0.4mm and made the bench slats 0.6mm - when I tried to go thicker than 0.4mm on the steel supports they looked terrible - perhaps it might not be so bad in reality ? - do you think I could get away with 0.4 and 0.6mm in FUD or FXD ? What are the benefits of WSF ?

 

Many thanks.

Regards

Paul

[cal.n]

Just put the file on shapeways and it will give you a heatmap 3d view of what areas are too thin for each given material, this can all be done without putting anything for sale or on a shop and is really helpful.

 

I will work out what is supporting and nut supporting itself.

[rue_d_etropal]

Any plastic printed thin will be susceptible to damage, whilst it is cooling, and when finished. If you are wanting something that thin,3D printing might not be best method. I assume the thin parts are the ends of the seats. I would suggest thinking about what you actually realistically want, and compromise if necessary. 

With respect to the 3D tools Shapeways use to check designs, they only go so far, and designs can still get rejected by the person setting up the machines . I have had designs being rejected, sometimes even after they have been printed before. Much can depend on the person setting up the machine. 

 

As for advantages of WSF, I have been using it for over 5 years and am happy with it. It does not require supports, so no chance of the wrong bit being removed. It is probably stronger than other plastic, and less likely to warp. It is also far far easier to ( any water based paint can be used). No need to clean first(unless you do feel the need to smooth it down with some non clogging sandpaper). It is also UV proof(so won't break down like other plastics), but might absorb liquid. I recommend a drop of cheap liquid superglue on any area which might fracture. It binds the granules of nylon. I find it relatively easy to glue to paper, card, wood. I have also been told it will glue to other  types of plastic using Mekpac. 

[Guy Rixon]

Thanks for the info. The scale thickness of the parts is about 0.2mm which I thought would be pushing my luck - so I doubled it to 0.4mm and made the bench slats 0.6mm - when I tried to go thicker than 0.4mm on the steel supports they looked terrible - perhaps it might not be so bad in reality ? - do you think I could get away with 0.4 and 0.6mm in FUD or FXD ? What are the benefits of WSF ?

 

Many thanks.

Regards

Paul

 

 

The limit on supported "walls" in FUD and FXD is 0.3mm. Below that, Shapeways don't want to print it. 0.4mm is OK for small features, but might be iffy for extensive "walls" or "wires".

 

As noted above, you can upload and let their robot check it for you, and this is very useful. I don't like their "heat map" view: it's inaccurate and conceals the problems. I think one gets a better idea of the weak points with the heat map turned off.

 

I suggest when checking that you don't let the robot fix any weak areas, as it tends to just stick on lumps of material where it feels like it. A quick way back to the "congealed snot" look. Just let it find the problems and fix them yourself.

 

I personally won't buy anything in WSF that has surface detail; i.e. I won't buy a WSF print unless it easy to sand smooth.

[rue_d_etropal]

Most of the negative comments about WSF are over reactionary. I have only been asked for a small number of my designs to be done in FUD. Most modellers are happy with WSF, they just don't tend to use online forums, so they are not heard. When I started one editor described 3D printing as an aid to scratch-building. at the time(due to my inexperience) , I did not agree, but now view 3D printing as that. It might be possible to produce dead accurate 3D prints in the future with none of the problems some get at the moment, but for the moment using it as an aid to modelling. 

Although I tend to leave off some detail(eg door handles), I have managed to get good results with drainpipes on my buildings. There is only so much you can actually see, and most people are not rivet counters and just want models of the trains they like. 

[rd84]

Thanks for your insights everyone - it's a complex subject for someone new to 3D printing - I'm going to use a combination of 3D print, laser cut and etched parts to do the whole station building and its details - I'll also be buying some ready made items as well. Hopefully I'll end up with something that I appreciate - I'll report back in 2018 with the results hopefully - I suspect it's going to take longer than I think !

 

Best Regards

Paul

[Guest info@3dprintnscan.co.uk]

Thanks for your insights everyone - it's a complex subject for someone new to 3D printing - I'm going to use a combination of 3D print, laser cut and etched parts to do the whole station building and its details - I'll also be buying some ready made items as well. Hopefully I'll end up with something that I appreciate - I'll report back in 2018 with the results hopefully - I suspect it's going to take longer than I think !

 

Best Regards

Paul

Hi rd84

If you still require the bench 3D Printing we can help you out!

We are a uk based 3D Printing company in Stockbridge, Hampshire UK.

We produce parts using PolyJet resin and have printed at 0.3mm wall thickness, so 0.4mm wont be an issue!

If you still require the part(s) please get in touch with us through our website https://www.3dprintnscan.co.uk or email us on info@3dprintnscan.co.uk

[rd84]

Hi rd84

If you still require the bench 3D Printing we can help you out!

We are a uk based 3D Printing company in Stockbridge, Hampshire UK.

We produce parts using PolyJet resin and have printed at 0.3mm wall thickness, so 0.4mm wont be an issue!

If you still require the part(s) please get in touch with us through our website https://www.3dprintnscan.co.uk or email us on info@3dprintnscan.co.uk

Hi,

 

I've just sent you an email and a STL of my CAD drawing.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

Paul

Edited January 4, 2018 by rd84

[rd84]

Hi,

 

I've just had the LNWR seat printed in the UK by 3D print 'N Scan at http://www.3dprintnscan.co.uk - they've done a very quick service and were very nice to deal with - I'll report back with some photo's once I receive them.

Can someone recommend the paints to use please - I want the seat in LNWR colours.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards
Paul