GWR W4 Peckett 'Hercules'

[Staffordshire]

    Hello, 

 

      I believe the following is all correct, GWR inherited a W4 Peckett loco that was  Numbered as '1'   and named Hercules.   I believe 

this loco was sheded at either Danygraig or East Swansea ?

 

     What I am searching for are any photos of this loco in the years 1945 - 1959 ?

 

      There must be some available ?

 

       Cheers, Ian

[chris45lsw]

the RCTS GWR loco book part 10 and in Casserley & Asher's g

    Hello, 

 

      I believe the following is all correct, GWR inherited a W4 Peckett loco that was  Numbered as '1'   and named Hercules.   I believe 

this loco was sheded at either Danygraig or East Swansea ?

 

     What I am searching for are any photos of this loco in the years 1945 - 1959 ?

 

      There must be some available ?

 

       Cheers, Ian

It was never a GWR loco.  It was acquired by BR(WR) in 1948 from the Ystalyfera Tin Works which was in liquidation.  It was Peckett works No. 810 (was this definitely a W4, by the way?).  It was overhauled at Danygraig in 1948 when it received a GWR safety valve.  From July 1948 to withdrawal in Jan 1954 it was shedded at Gurnos, a sub-shed of Swansea (Victoria) (87K).  There's a pic in the RCTS GWR loco history Part 10 and in Locos of BR by Casserley & Asher and no doubt others. 

 

Chris KT

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Dunsignalling]

In the description of their kit for Hercules, CSP Models state "this was, in fact, a pretty standard W4 Peckett", then going on to mention the GWR fittings added by BR when they overhauled it.

 

John

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Poor Old Bruce]

the RCTS GWR loco book part 10 and in Casserley & Asher's g

It was never a GWR loco.  It was acquired by BR(WR) in 1948 from the Ystalyfera Tin Works which was in liquidation.  It was Peckett works No. 810 (was this definitely a W4, by the way?).  It was overhauled at Danygraig in 1948 when it received a GWR safety valve.  From July 1948 to withdrawal in Jan 1954 it was shedded at Gurnos, a sub-shed of Swansea (Victoria) (87K).  There's a pic in the RCTS GWR loco history Part 10 and in Locos of BR by Casserley & Asher and no doubt others. 

 

According to the IRS Peckett Works List, 810 definitely was a W4. It was built in 1900 and originally named JERSEY, going to Wright Butler & Co., Cwmavon, Glamorganshire.

[The Johnster]

There were certainly Pecketts at Danygraig, and some Avonsides, for shunting work on Swansea Docks.  They were fitted with bells for roadside working, but Hercules was not one of these.  They were numbered in the 11xx series, and had been either inherited from the Swansea Harbour Trust (originally the Swansea Harbour Investment Trust, until somebody realised the acronym) or their contractor's, local firm Powlesland and Mason, or, in the case of the Avonside side tanks which came complete with outside Walchearts valve gear, ordered by the GW post grouping IIRC.

[Staffordshire]

   First the good news, the kit for Hercules turned up today from CSP Models,   now the work begins.

 

   Jumping the gun  a bit but does anyone know what colour Hercules  (under BR, 1950-54)  was painted ?

 

    I seem to think it was GWR green, which naturally became very very dirty.

 

   Many thanks, Ian

[tomparryharry]

Too many Ian 's on this forum.....

 

Oh, hello Ian!

 

Cheers,

 

The other (no, not that one, the other one)

 

Ian.

[br2975]

I believe it had painted numbers, and only one nameplate, but may be wrong.

[Steamport Southport]

I've just had a look in the RCTS book and whilst you can't really tell the colour it looks the same all over. It's reasonably clean and well looked after.

 

I would guess at slightly faded black.

 

Yes. The nameplate was fitted to the left hand cab only.

 

 

 

Jason

[Staffordshire]

  Thanks for all the information, please keep it coming and any photos would be a bonus !

 

     Devil is in the detail ...

 

    Cheers, Ian 

[The Johnster]

Livery would, at least in theory, be dependent on when in 1948 Danygraig released it to traffic after if's overhaul; the WR was painting locos in unlined green livery with GWR 1920s Egyptian serif style 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering until the end of May, and then changed to black with sans serif lettering and red backed number plates, but we have a question about 810's plates as well. The first type of BR totem, the 'unicycling lion', was not available until late in the year.  

 

810 might of course not have carried any indication of ownership at all and just been in plain green or black.  Painted numbers, at least as applied a few years later at Caerphilly Works and, I believe, during the wartime austerity period, were painted representations of the number plates in yellow paint, including the surrounds.  I have never heard of any red backed ones, but I don't know everything; in fact sometimes I don't know anything...

 

But my feeling is that black livery would be most probable; the loco would have had to have been purchased, delivered, and the overhaul and paint job finished before the end of May 1948.  She is very small for 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering, so I'd suggest plain black if in traffic before the first totem was available at the end of October, but a totem might have been applied afterwards.  

 

Gurnos is well up the valley from Swansea, and I doubt the loco ever worked on Swansea Docks.

[Steamport Southport]

Livery would, at least in theory, be dependent on when in 1948 Danygraig released it to traffic after if's overhaul; the WR was painting locos in unlined green livery with GWR 1920s Egyptian serif style 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering until the end of May, and then changed to black with sans serif lettering and red backed number plates, but we have a question about 810's plates as well. The first type of BR totem, the 'unicycling lion', was not available until late in the year.  

 

810 might of course not have carried any indication of ownership at all and just been in plain green or black.  Painted numbers, at least as applied a few years later at Caerphilly Works and, I believe, during the wartime austerity period, were painted representations of the number plates in yellow paint, including the surrounds.  I have never heard of any red backed ones, but I don't know everything; in fact sometimes I don't know anything...

 

But my feeling is that black livery would be most probable; the loco would have had to have been purchased, delivered, and the overhaul and paint job finished before the end of May 1948.  She is very small for 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering, so I'd suggest plain black if in traffic before the first totem was available at the end of October, but a totem might have been applied afterwards.  

 

Gurnos is well up the valley from Swansea, and I doubt the loco ever worked on Swansea Docks.

 

It's plain.

 

Possibly black although Ian Rathbone has painted one green. Click first picture. http://www.ianrathbonemodelpainting.co.uk/gallery-1---7mm-scale.php

 

Nameplate on cabside just below the beading. Below that is painted 1 and beneath that is the Peckett workplate in it's usual place.

 

All evidence suggests the name was carried on the left hand side only.

 

Photo dated June 1950 at Gurnos taken by W Potter. I think there is another photo in the HC Casserley collection, but I can't find it.

 

 

So either black or green. I would just pick which one you believe is right. If you choose green and someone tells you it's wrong then point them in the direction of Ian Rathbone's photo.

 

 

Jason

[simon47603]

I have a copy of The Swansea Vale Railway published by the Lightmoor Press. On Page 223, their is a picture of Hercules at the Ystalyfera Tinplate Works. According to the accompanying caption. It was built in 1900, works Number 810. It went new to Baldwins Cwmavon works near Port Talbot. It was then transferred to Briton Ferry Collieries sometime around WW1. It then moved to Ystalyfera sometime around 1942, Via Loco dealer Chas Williams of Morriston. And taken into BR stock in 1948.

[Steamport Southport]

I have a copy of The Swansea Vale Railway published by the Lightmoor Press. On Page 223, their is a picture of Hercules at the Ystalyfera Tinplate Works. According to the accompanying caption. It was built in 1900, works Number 810. It went new to Baldwins Cwmavon works near Port Talbot. It was then transferred to Briton Ferry Collieries sometime around WW1. It then moved to Ystalyfera sometime around 1942, Via Loco dealer Chas Williams of Morriston. And taken into BR stock in 1948.

 

That's actually quite informative as most of the scant details I've found is a couple of paragraphs worth in the RCTS book which only mentions post 1948 information. Most of which is vague and is mostly dimensions and things like withdrawal dates.

 

 

 

Jason

[Staffordshire]

   Thanks to everyone, almost all questions answered.

 

    Would just like to know, did she carry an early  BR totem at any time ????

 

 

       Cheers, Ian

[Staffordshire]

   Well, thought it would be nice to post a couple of photos of the finished  'Hercules' ....

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, Staffordshire said:

   Well, thought it would be nice to post a couple of photos of the finished  'Hercules' ....

 

 

shouldnt it be black.... just kidding: been reading the thread.

 

Nice build. Ive always liked these much more than the larger type that Minerva did in 7mm.