Southern Region Coaches from my Workbench

[145 Squadron]

Having been a relatively silent member on this website for 6 years I am taking the plunge in attempting to describe my process to produce a layout model of a dia 2659 Maunsell Kitchen/Buffet coach (as rebuilt in 1947) in OO gauge.

 

I have produced several Bulleid and Maunsell coaches for my layout, mainly using brass sides from Comet (now Wizard), 247 developments (now sadly no longer apparently available) and Mousa Models as well as Kirk and Southern Pride plastic sides.

 

From the above sources I have produced several BR SR catering coaches as running in the early '60's; the one in this description is based on the recently re-introduced Ex-Kirk Maunsell restaurant/kitchen 1st with a Hornby Maunsell corridor second as the donor vehicle. For illustration the attached pictures show a previous conversion,  based on using the full Kirk kit and Ratio bogies.

 

The new coach is being built for a friend's layout.

 

[Bibby Line]

Tony,

 

Excellent work, I am sure that Members would be interested in other coaches you have built.

 

Eddie

[Tony Teague]

Looks good; certainly interested to see more.

 

Tony

[Wilton 34041]

Hello 145 Squadron, I'm very interested in this & those coaches look so good.

Tell me; where are the sides available from now, is it Cooper Craft?

I'd like to build one of these so will you be giving us some guidance & more photos?

 

Phil, in Peacehaven.

[JDW]

Hello 145 Squadron, I'm very interested in this & those coaches look so good.

Tell me; where are the sides available from now, is it Cooper Craft?

I'd like to build one of these so will you be giving us some guidance & more photos?

 

Phil, in Peacehaven.

 

I don't want to stray off topic and get into a discussion about it here, but if it is Coopercraft, you should make sure you read the topic about them before you try and order anything from them.  No connection or opinion either way on my part, just a suggestion, especially as you look to be a newish member of the forum.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello 145 Squadron, I'm very interested in this & those coaches look so good.

Tell me; where are the sides available from now, is it Cooper Craft?

I'd like to build one of these so will you be giving us some guidance & more photos?

 

Phil, in Peacehaven.

 

I don't want to stray off topic and get into a discussion about it here, but if it is Coopercraft, you should make sure you read the topic about them before you try and order anything from them.  No connection or opinion either way on my part, just a suggestion, especially as you look to be a newish member of the forum.

The Maunsell coach kits are being produced and sold by Precision Paints.

[Mallard60022]

Hello 145 Squadron, I'm very interested in this & those coaches look so good.

Tell me; where are the sides available from now, is it Cooper Craft?

I'd like to build one of these so will you be giving us some guidance & more photos?

 

Phil, in Peacehaven.

 

The Maunsell coach kits are being produced and sold by Precision Paints.

Mousa Models (Bill Bedford) produce Brass sides for this and quite a few other Maunsell Dining Diagrams. The Ex Kirk Kits are available from other sources such as H & A Models. Nothing against Kirks but the Mousa sides are far superior, however do check the detail!

This build is superb and I am envious. Need to know what paints you use as I still have not discovered a suitable BRSR Green for Kit builds and Conversions.

Phl

[145 Squadron]

The Maunsell coach kits are being produced and sold by Precision Paints.

 

As Clive says, Precision Paints are producing the Ex Kirk southern coach kits, but in addition they now market the coach sides as separate items which, as apart from the Hornby Maunsell coach, are the only major components I have used.

 

Thank you all for your kind comments; I will try to give a stage by stage commentary so that others may hopefully avoid some of my mistakes and wasted time and effort.

 

The donor coach is a Hornby Maunsell corridor second - you could use other types as the sides are going in the bin anyway, but this coach has the correct end details and pipes for the kitchen/buffet so that is one less job to do!

 

The only other parts required are plasticard of various thicknesses, roof vents, screws, paint and glue.

 

Having stripped the Hornby coach to its basic components the Hornby roof vents and toilet tanks need to be removed, filled and filed smooth.

 

Using suitable references (Mike King drawings and Gould's Maunsell SR Steam Carriage Stock are good sources) six of the windows in the Ex Kirk sides need to be filled flush. I did this by cutting plasticard blanks and glueing inside the coach sides, then when dry using a second layer of thinner plasticard to fill the window recess from the outside. Small discrepancies in the outside finish will match the prototype!

 

Remove the stepboards from the coach chassis and bogies, and fill the resulting holes.

 

Cut the sides from the Hornby coach (deep breath required!) I find the best method is to run a sharp knife along the side below the roof gutter - do not try to do this one go, but repeatedly run the knife until you have a fairly deep groove, but not right through. Then using a razor saw, cut up from the ends (as close to the end of the sides as you dare) until you reach the gutter line. Then, very gently, and with more knife strokes gently ease the sides inwards and you should find the sides should break away along the gutter line you have scored; do not rush this process. You should then be left with the kit of parts as per the picture below.

 

More to follow.....

[45568]

Really looking forward to this as I have a Maunsell Buffet and a 59' Bulleid 3-set to build, and I was hoping to use this method! (Didn't realise that sides could be sourced separately, I bought the whole kits!!)

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[Mallard60022]

Excellent methods. The advice about the donor coach is invaluable as retention of small details like pipes,as you say, is such a bonus; thanks.

Also just having sides available is also a huge advantage.

 

Mousa Sides. 'Inset' doors not the easiest to get correct with these sides but 'only' £12 a set is good value IMO.

In case anyone hasn't seen them:

 http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/sides/SR/maunsell_sides4.html

Phil

[145 Squadron]

Excellent methods. The advice about the donor coach is invaluable as retention of small details like pipes,as you say, is such a bonus; thanks.

Also just having sides available is also a huge advantage.

 

Mousa Sides. 'Inset' doors not the easiest to get correct with these sides but 'only' £12 a set is good value IMO.

In case anyone hasn't seen them:

 http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/sides/SR/maunsell_sides4.html

Phil

 

Thanks for that Phil; I have Mousa sides on order for the dia 2666 1953 conversion as these coaches would be a stretch too far as Kirk side conversions!

 

The only Mousa coach sides I have tried before was for a SECR '100 seater' with which I was very impressed.

 

Any tips on how to do the inset doors would be gratefully received.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Thanks for that Phil; I have Mousa sides on order for the dia 2666 1953 conversion as these coaches would be a stretch too far as Kirk side conversions!

 

The only Mousa coach sides I have tried before was for a SECR '100 seater' with which I was very impressed.

 

Any tips on how to do the inset doors would be gratefully received.

 

Tony

Ah hem, I've only done some on a Gresley Diner, not yet done this one and was hoping someone might give me some advice

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

I'll be fascinated to see this develop.

 

You appear to have managed to salvage both the door handles, and possibly the roof vents from the Hornby coach. I wonder, did these come out easily from inside or with a lot of bother?

 

John.

[145 Squadron]

I'll be fascinated to see this develop.

 

You appear to have managed to salvage both the door handles, and possibly the roof vents from the Hornby coach. I wonder, did these come out easily from inside or with a lot of bother?

 

John.

 

Thank you for your kind comment, John.

 

It was not possible to salvage the roof vents, in any case I use MJT ones so they would not match. The door handles are very nice (and very fragile) plastic mouldings - some are stuck fast to the body, but some can be gently prised off with the aid of a scalpel blade. Success rate on this coach was about 50% (including one that fell off by itself!). I keep these as spares as most commode handles I use are the later Bulleid/BR type, for which I use MJT or Southern Pride etches.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tony

[John Tomlinson]

Tony, thanks that helps a lot.

 

Having bought some Hornby Maunsells with a few missing handles and roof vents, it struck me I might use one as a spares ship to repair the others, better still if it then went on to be the base for a dining vehicle not made by Hornby. Although I've managed to get the bogies off some to change the couplings, I haven't yet taken the body and chassis apart, the few comments I've read suggest this is likely to result in broken clips as they don't really flex. Again, not something to shy away from if the coach is being used as a base for something else.

 

As echoed by others, the coach in #1 is terrific, with a first rate level of finish!

 

John.

[145 Squadron]

Progress has slowed a bit but have cleaned up the Hornby coach shell and chamfered the ends to accept the Ex Kirk sides which are a good fit for length. To aid a good strong joint along the roof line I then added plasticard 'dragons teeth' to the inside or the Hornby roof to coincide with bodyside between windows and doors as in the first picture below all the while checking fit with the Kirk sides. When these had dried thoroughly I attached the Kirk sides to the Hornby body and filled any resulting (small) gaps and again leave to dry thoroughly. In addition to using the usual plastic solvent I find it useful to reinforce the key joints with polystyrene glue which when dry gives additional strength. The corner fillets are for fixing screws from the chassis to the body as the original fixings disappeared when the sides were cut off (they are part of the glazing).

 

While this assembly was drying I started on the interior; one advantage of this coach is that there are not many windows left in the finished vehicle, which means you cannot see much! The interior plan is copied from the drawings onto the plasticard floor, making allowance for the fixings mentioned above and also the side/roof joiners. Shaping the counter was fun, and as you can hardly see it in the coach others may not want to bother. There are 8 stools to add to the tables at the buffet end which I have yet to make.

 

On the chassis I have glued some 0.25mm rod down the solebar on one side to represent the vacuum pipe the fitted plasticard steps as appropriate. There are also a pair of footsteps on one bogie which I have also added.

 

Thank you all for your positive comments on the build so far; I will continue to post as and when the build advances.

 

Tony 

[eldavo]

Topnotch work as always Tony.

 

Cheers

Dave

[MJI]

Good to see some good kitbashing

[145 Squadron]

I have had a bit more time in the Railway Room today, so some more progress to show on the Maunsell buffet coach.

 

I have painted the interior, which still need the seats making and fitting plus some other details to finish.

 

The body has had a 'blow over' with Halfords primer and ant small imperfections filled and sanded. I then tackled the roof details; the plans show a side view of the roof detail, but do not show in plan format, so I have copied the middle ventilator spacing from my previous model (which in turn I think were based on photos). The roof tank and cooker vents were made from plasticard, vents are cast accessories.

 

The underframe has had the gas cylinder boxes added (again scratch built from plasticard) but I hit a problem here with the bogie swing - on the full size coach bogie travel would be quite restricted but for a model that has to negotiate minimum 2'6" curves and other track irregularities the bogie dampers foul the boxes. The only solution I have been able to come up with to overcome this is to cut the outer end off the boxes for those affected; I think once painted it will hopefully not show.

 

The other problem was how to fix the body to the chassis - there is not much room on the underframe to put fixing screws once you have avoided the swinging coupling mount and sprung buffer mountings, both features I was keen to retain. There was also an issue with allowing the interior to fit around the corner lugs on the body so that it could be removed as necessary. In the end I managed to get some No.0 X 0.4mm Phillips self tappers between the corner fixing hole and the underframe corner step fixings - it was quite tight as you can see from the third photo, but seems to work OK.

 

Finally for today, a question; an early photo of one of the original RFO prior to conversion in 1947 shows two features - six lead filled boxes attached to the solebar under the corridor side of the kitchen end, and a set of lower steps under the double doors. Unfortunately all the pictures of the buffet conversion I can find seem to show the other side of the coach so I am not sure if these features continued on the converted coach. I am pretty sure the bottom step was removed, but logically I cannot see why the lead boxes would have been removed (as the kitchen end of the vehicle was unchanged in the conversion and presumably the imbalance they were supposed to correct was still present). For the moment I have left both features off the current model although they are both present on the first version I made. Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Tony

 

  

 

[Mallard60022]

I'll go and check my books now Tony. I can tell you the lead weights remained.

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks, Tony, for a most informative thread and pictures. I'm in the process of getting the bits together to do one of these and it's great to have a guide to follow.

 

Regards

 

John

Edited December 20, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Mallard60022]

I think the pic on Page 99 of King shows the lower step in place, so that would be below the lovely white step and in front of your boxes on your pic above. As the 2651 modified coach retained the lower step on the kitchen (lead weight) side then perhaps we can presume it was retained on the 2659, especially as these coaches needed access for staff from/to ground level in Yards.

Doesn't show them or the weights on the King Diagrams as you know I'm sure.

Your coach sure looks good so far. Can I ask where the big Monsoon Vents came from?

Phil

Edited December 20, 2017 by Mallard60022

[145 Squadron]

I think the pic on Page 99 of King shows the lower step in place, so that would be below the lovely white step and in front of your boxes on your pic above. As the 2651 modified coach retained the lower step on the kitchen (lead weight) side then perhaps we can presume it was retained on the 2659, especially as these coaches needed access for staff from/to ground level in Yards.

Doesn't show them or the weights on the King Diagrams as you know I'm sure.

Your coach sure looks good so far. Can I ask where the big Monsoon Vents came from?

Phil

 

Thanks for the info Phil - I had cut out the lead boxes from some spare sprue (as you have guessed I never throw anything away when modelling!) just in case and will have to fabricate some steps. I was not sure about the latter as there is a very good picture of 7864 on the Bluebell website after withdrawal which does not show the bottom footstep?

 

The monsoon vents are simply two layers of plasticard shaped, stuck together, then fixed to the roof.

 

Hoping it will be warm enough to start spraying over the next couple of days.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Thanks for the info Phil - I had cut out the lead boxes from some spare sprue (as you have guessed I never throw anything away when modelling!) just in case and will have to fabricate some steps. I was not sure about the latter as there is a very good picture of 7864 on the Bluebell website after withdrawal which does not show the bottom footstep?

 

The monsoon vents are simply two layers of plasticard shaped, stuck together, then fixed to the roof.

 

Hoping it will be warm enough to start spraying over the next couple of days.

 

Tony

That blows my theory out of the pond! 1962 as well and it looks like it had just come straight from catering service. Only think I can suggest is that the step was removed for H & S reasons re 3rd rail or whatever?

So if one was modelling that particular coach for late 50s early 60s then a step is probably not required; such fun!

ATB

Phil

Edited December 21, 2017 by Mallard60022

[145 Squadron]

Made the 8 saloon stools this morning; not sure you can really see them when in the coach but only took an hour or so.

 

Also added the lead boxes to the solebar as discussed with Phil.

 

I think I will pass on the bottom stepboard - one job less to do! The Mousa Models sides for the dia 2666 1953 Maunsell buffet conversion turned up today so the projects are starting to queue up!

 

Tony