Southern Region Coaches from my Workbench

[2ManySpams]

Some nice conversions there Tony. I agree that the Hornby Maunsell coaches are a great starting point and I used a few myself. Never quite finished them following a move to 7mm.

[eldavo]

Fess up Tony, how did you make the stools?

 

Cheers

Dave

[145 Squadron]

Fess up Tony, how did you make the stools?

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Amazing what you can get from Ikea Dave!

 

Seriously, I used my trusty leather hole punch for the seats with short strips of 5 thou plasticard wrapped round and plastic rod posts. One thing I forgot was having carefully marked out the position for the stools on the floor I then went and painted it! After a bit of thought I copied the plan, then cut out that section to use as a template to mark the legs. I have now also painted up the obligatory attendant and a couple of customers, but not sure if they will be seen in the finished coach.

 

Have now sprayed the body and painted the underframe and bogies. As usual the spraying went wrong; having done 5 thin coats on the outside onto the primer which went fine (despite finishing in the dark outside) I turned the body over the next day to give a coat on the inside. The inside was fine but some spray had drifted onto the outside bottom of the body and dried matt - I hate painting! After it has all dried thoroughly I will T cut it back and hopefully it will be OK.

 

Enjoy your festivities and thanks for your support.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Amazing what you can get from Ikea Dave!

 

Seriously, I used my trusty leather hole punch for the seats with short strips of 5 thou plasticard wrapped round and plastic rod posts. One thing I forgot was having carefully marked out the position for the stools on the floor I then went and painted it! After a bit of thought I copied the plan, then cut out that section to use as a template to mark the legs. I have now also painted up the obligatory attendant and a couple of customers, but not sure if they will be seen in the finished coach.

 

Have now sprayed the body and painted the underframe and bogies. As usual the spraying went wrong; having done 5 thin coats on the outside onto the primer which went fine (despite finishing in the dark outside) I turned the body over the next day to give a coat on the inside. The inside was fine but some spray had drifted onto the outside bottom of the body and dried matt - I hate painting! After it has all dried thoroughly I will T cut it back and hopefully it will be OK.

 

Enjoy your festivities and thanks for your support.

 

Tony

I thought the stool seats may have been indigestion tablets, however I then realised they may be required for Post Christmas festivity?

[145 Squadron]

Having wrapped the presents I managed a couple more hours in the Railway Room.

 

I have now finished the interior; I have added some staff and customers although I don't think you will see much in the finished coach. As it is a buffet a couple are drinking tea, but the men seem to have something that looks suspiciously like beer!

 

 

The body has had transfers added - I like to use Methfix where I can but have given up with coach numbers as I find it too difficult to get them in a straight line with correct spacing so usually use waterslide for those.

 

 

Commode handles have also been added, with the door handles picked out in 'brass'.

 

 Windows to be cut and fixed, plus corridor handrail; further work will now probably be suspended till Boxing Day!

 

Have a good Christmas!

 

Tony

[Bibby Line]

The interior people and body paintwork are superb. Excellent work.

 

Eddie

[145 Squadron]

Added the glazing and handrail to finish the coach over Christmas, now to box up for the new owner!

 

 

Next project - either a Bulleid 2 coach set (Comet sides on Hachette donor) or a Maunsell dia 2666 buffet (another Hornby donor with Bill Bedford sides); any preference?

 

Happy New Year

 

Tony

[Westernway]

I have had a bit more time in the Railway Room today, so some more progress to show on the Maunsell buffet coach.

 

I have painted the interior, which still need the seats making and fitting plus some other details to finish.

 

The body has had a 'blow over' with Halfords primer and ant small imperfections filled and sanded. I then tackled the roof details; the plans show a side view of the roof detail, but do not show in plan format, so I have copied the middle ventilator spacing from my previous model (which in turn I think were based on photos). The roof tank and cooker vents were made from plasticard, vents are cast accessories.

 

The underframe has had the gas cylinder boxes added (again scratch built from plasticard) but I hit a problem here with the bogie swing - on the full size coach bogie travel would be quite restricted but for a model that has to negotiate minimum 2'6" curves and other track irregularities the bogie dampers foul the boxes. The only solution I have been able to come up with to overcome this is to cut the outer end off the boxes for those affected; I think once painted it will hopefully not show.

 

The other problem was how to fix the body to the chassis - there is not much room on the underframe to put fixing screws once you have avoided the swinging coupling mount and sprung buffer mountings, both features I was keen to retain. There was also an issue with allowing the interior to fit around the corner lugs on the body so that it could be removed as necessary. In the end I managed to get some No.0 X 0.4mm Phillips self tappers between the corner fixing hole and the underframe corner step fixings - it was quite tight as you can see from the third photo, but seems to work OK.

 

Finally for today, a question; an early photo of one of the original RFO prior to conversion in 1947 shows two features - six lead filled boxes attached to the solebar under the corridor side of the kitchen end, and a set of lower steps under the double doors. Unfortunately all the pictures of the buffet conversion I can find seem to show the other side of the coach so I am not sure if these features continued on the converted coach. I am pretty sure the bottom step was removed, but logically I cannot see why the lead boxes would have been removed (as the kitchen end of the vehicle was unchanged in the conversion and presumably the imbalance they were supposed to correct was still present). For the moment I have left both features off the current model although they are both present on the first version I made. Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Tony

 

Awesome work! I love the curved bar!!! You are a very talented man.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Westernway

[Mallard60022]

Added the glazing and handrail to finish the coach over Christmas, now to box up for the new owner!

 

DSCF2377.JPGDSCF2378.JPGDSCF2379.JPG

 

Next project - either a Bulleid 2 coach set (Comet sides on Hachette donor) or a Maunsell dia 2666 buffet (another Hornby donor with Bill Bedford sides); any preference?

 

Happy New Year

 

Tony

Deffo the Buffet.

Phil

[145 Squadron]

Thanks for your response Phil however on further reflection I have to think about that one a bit more. I have several Hornby donor coaches to use but I was going to use an open 2nd type as it is the only Hornby coach with the recessed end doors which the dia 2666 buffet has. This was to get over the problem where I would have to create this somehow on the Bill Bedford sides as supplied, which are flat etches with a gap where the recess occurs - this requires a complex series of bends in two planes. My idea was to graft the main Bedford etch onto the Hornby coach at the point of the bend, retaining the Hornby end door. However searching the internet Hornby open 2nds (R4538?) seem to be rarer than hens teeth and the thought of paying c£45 for a coach to submit to the razor saw is making me gulp a bit (the coach above cost me about £28 including the coach and Ex Kirk sides, plasticard and paint.

 

As I have a friend who wants the Bulleid 2 car set I will start that while I am thinking through a solution to the dia 2666 buffet. Finding these solutions (at a minimal cost!) is one of the aspects of modelling that interests me most; I have managed to make most of my coaches for around the £30 each mark in total, but of course that doesn't include the labour (which probably averages about 35 hours per coach). I have made all the Bulleid coach varieties at least once except the open 2nds, including 3 tavern car sets and a 6 coach Bournemouth set as well as several of the Maunsell types so hopefully know what I am doing with these two coaches.

 

If anyone has any bright ideas about the dia 2666 recess they would be gratefully received. Also if anyone is interested in the Bulleid coach build I would be happy to share on this forum.

 

Tony 

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for your response Phil however on further reflection I have to think about that one a bit more. I have several Hornby donor coaches to use but I was going to use an open 2nd type as it is the only Hornby coach with the recessed end doors which the dia 2666 buffet has. This was to get over the problem where I would have to create this somehow on the Bill Bedford sides as supplied, which are flat etches with a gap where the recess occurs - this requires a complex series of bends in two planes. My idea was to graft the main Bedford etch onto the Hornby coach at the point of the bend, retaining the Hornby end door. However searching the internet Hornby open 2nds (R4538?) seem to be rarer than hens teeth and the thought of paying c£45 for a coach to submit to the razor saw is making me gulp a bit (the coach above cost me about £28 including the coach and Ex Kirk sides, plasticard and paint.

 

As I have a friend who wants the Bulleid 2 car set I will start that while I am thinking through a solution to the dia 2666 buffet. Finding these solutions (at a minimal cost!) is one of the aspects of modelling that interests me most; I have managed to make most of my coaches for around the £30 each mark in total, but of course that doesn't include the labour (which probably averages about 35 hours per coach). I have made all the Bulleid coach varieties at least once except the open 2nds, including 3 tavern car sets and a 6 coach Bournemouth set as well as several of the Maunsell types so hopefully know what I am doing with these two coaches.

 

If anyone has any bright ideas about the dia 2666 recess they would be gratefully received. Also if anyone is interested in the Bulleid coach build I would be happy to share on this forum.

 

Tony 

Might it be possible to combine the central sections of the diagram 2666 etches with portions of the sides from the Kirk Open 2nd kit and fit the complete sides into the roof and ends from a more readily obtainable/cheaper Hornby donor?

 

The thought has also occurred to salvage the excellent grab handles from surplus Hornby sides to provide a matching feature on converted coaches, helping them blend in better with standard Hornby Maunsells.

 

John

Edited December 28, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[KeithHC]

Hi Tony,

Bring on the Bulleid build I will follow with interest. Your Maunsell build has been great and I look forward to any of your conversions. I have three Bachmann Bulleids and no there are problems and want to have a go at correcting them. Being able to follow your project will greatly help.

 

Keith

[145 Squadron]

Might it be possible to combine the central sections of the diagram 2666 etches with portions of the sides from the Kirk Open 2nd kit and fit the complete sides into a the roof and ends from a more readily obtainable/cheaper Hornby donor?

 

The thought has also occurred to salvage the excellent grab handles from surplus Hornby sides to provide a matching feature on converted coaches, helping them blend in better with standard Hornby Maunsells.

 

John

 

John,

 

This particular coach only has the recessed ends at one end, rather than both ends on the open 2nd but what you are suggesting is a good idea - I have just checked and Precision Paints sell the sides only at £2.50 each. In theory I should only need one side! I will then need to work out a good mechanical join between the plastic and brass sides. In the meantime I will order some Kirk sides to experiment.

 

Re the grab handles, I think the majority of grab handles are the later type, as supplied on the Southern Pride or MJT brass frets, but I shall keep all the salvageable ones from the Hornby sides anyway!

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

Tony

[145 Squadron]

Hi Tony,

Bring on the Bulleid build I will follow with interest. Your Maunsell build has been great and I look forward to any of your conversions. I have three Bachmann Bulleids and no there are problems and want to have a go at correcting them. Being able to follow your project will greatly help.

 

Keith

 

Keith,

 

I have tried using Bachmann Bulleids for conversions in the past, but as others have found they appear to be somewhat undersize which means you have to file the brass sides to suit. I have found the Hachette/Bachmann Mk1 coaches better for my conversions to date as not only are they better lengthwise they also have a close coupling mechanism which suits my layout in that the coaches are almost touching gangway to gangway on the straight but they will go round my 3' curves at the end. I do prefer the Bachmann bogies (with metal wheels) which seem to be quite free running. The Hachette coaches I am using in these conversions are from my donor stocks as they are now becoming difficult to find second hand - most of mine were bought with the magazine for £3.99 which keeps the overall costs down. The current second hand price seems to be about £10 each which is still cheaper than most other suitable makes although you will need to do additional work, and also buy a set of suitable bogies.

 

Whilst I am waiting for the parts to come for the dia 2666 Maunsell buffet I have made a start on the Bulleids (the process is very similar for Bachmann Mk1's):

 

 

The above picture shows the brass sides (ref S8 & S9 from Wizard Models) plus the two donor Hachette Mk1's

 

 

 

The coach is then stripped to its basic components, roof, sides, underframe and bogies. The interior is discarded (unless you want to keep for future projects).

 

 

Glazing is removed from the sides and discarded.

 

 

All the roof detail in carefully filed and sanded off, all underframe equipment removed and the central girders cut off and pared smooth - it is essential to get the underfloor as flat as possible to ensure easy fitment of the correct parts. The ends have also had attention; all end detail has been removed except the gangway (reshaped), jumper cables and buffers (heads need thinning down on the Hachette models). The buffer beam has also been re-profiled into a more Bulleid coach shape. This stage is very messy with plastic swarf that get everywhere.

 

I do realise in making these conversions they are not 100% accurate but my intention is to produce a coach that will satisfy most viewers at operating distances on a layout, will run reliably, be compatible with other current manufacturers stock and most importantly be relatively cheap to produce!

 

Tony

[Tony Teague]

 

As I have a friend who wants the Bulleid 2 car set I will start that while I am thinking through a solution to the dia 2666 buffet. Finding these solutions (at a minimal cost!) is one of the aspects of modelling that interests me most; I have managed to make most of my coaches for around the £30 each mark in total, but of course that doesn't include the labour (which probably averages about 35 hours per coach). I have made all the Bulleid coach varieties at least once except the open 2nds, including 3 tavern car sets and a 6 coach Bournemouth set as well as several of the Maunsell types so hopefully know what I am doing with these two coaches.

Tony 

I was intrigued to see that you had built a 6-car Bulleid Bournemouth Dining Set, as I was not aware that Comet had produced the longer sides that came down to cover parts of the solebar; do they in fact do these, or did you find a way to extend the sides?

 

In any event, I'd certainly be interested in your sriting up the Bulleid 2-car build as I have one waiting in a drawer!

 

Tony

[2ManySpams]

Very interesting Tony, I too decided the Bachmann Bulleid coaches were not the best place to start for a conversion. Being too sort was the biggest issue.

[Mallard60022]

Very interesting Tony, I too decided the Bachmann Bulleid coaches were not the best place to start for a conversion. Being too sort was the biggest issue.

Someone suggested that Mainline MK1s were OK donors. Not tried one yet but I might have a hack at an older Hornby one or two (and by older I mean 20+ years or so).

I need to get on like Tony who is shamingly quick. I suspect a commission may be requested knowing how damn slow I am at stuff.

Ping

[LN850]

After sifting through my Maunsell carriage photos, I came across some pictures of a very decrepit diag 2659 No. 7864 on the Bluebelle. The lead weights on the sole bar are definitely still there, as is the bottom step beneath the double doors (the top step is missing!). Incidentally the pair of steps beneath the double doors, whilst symmetrical to each other, are offset towards the centre of the coach. This is clearly seen on plate 100 (page 93) of the Mike King book.

 

A few years ago, I started drawing up these Maunsell catering vehicles, including Diag. 2659. I have attached renderings of this showing each each side of the carriage. There is also some 2D line drawings in a .pdf file (derived from the 3D drawing), which are to 4mm scale if printed out on A3 paper (unscaled). Also some pictures of 3D printed components.

 

I hope they can be of help.

 

Mike

2D drawings of diag 2659.pdf

[145 Squadron]

I was intrigued to see that you had built a 6-car Bulleid Bournemouth Dining Set, as I was not aware that Comet had produced the longer sides that came down to cover parts of the solebar; do they in fact do these, or did you find a way to extend the sides?

 

In any event, I'd certainly be interested in your sriting up the Bulleid 2-car build as I have one waiting in a drawer!

 

Tony

 

Tony

 

It was a while ago, and I used the sides marketed at the time by 247 Developments, which seem to have disappeared since the business has transferred to a new owner. The etches did have the extended sides and could be used in the same way as the Comet sides, but you had to bend them yourself which resulted in one of my sides ending up distinctly banana shaped! Fortunately I was just in time to get a replacement and complete the rake.

 

 

 

 

I think Bill Bedford may do the sides in the Mousa Models range, but not sure of their current availability. There was a lot of work in the 6 coaches and it will be a while before I am ready to tackle another set!

 

Tony

[145 Squadron]

After sifting through my Maunsell carriage photos, I came across some pictures of a very decrepit diag 2659 No. 7864 on the Bluebelle. The lead weights on the sole bar are definitely still there, as is the bottom step beneath the double doors (the top step is missing!). Incidentally the pair of steps beneath the double doors, whilst symmetrical to each other, are offset towards the centre of the coach. This is clearly seen on plate 100 (page 93) of the Mike King book.

 

A few years ago, I started drawing up these Maunsell catering vehicles, including Diag. 2659. I have attached renderings of this showing each each side of the carriage. There is also some 2D line drawings in a .pdf file (derived from the 3D drawing), which are to 4mm scale if printed out on A3 paper (unscaled). Also some pictures of 3D printed components.

 

I hope they can be of help.

 

Mike

 

Mike

 

That info is very helpful; I am seeing my friend tomorrow so will ask him if he wants me to alter the coach I have made for him. That said these catering coaches do seem to be a minefield in that no two seem to be necessarily the same, or that they remained in the same condition at any given point in time. As Phil has pointed out maybe the ones used on the Western Section had the bottom boards removed due to the third rail. The 3D components look interesting - it would certainly have saved me a session with the plasticard and solvent on 7867.

 

I am hoping he will just be happy to have a catering vehicle for his train!

 

Tony 

[2ManySpams]

Tony, apologies if I have missed this in the posts so far but what / whose green paint are you using for the coaches?

[145 Squadron]

Tony, apologies if I have missed this in the posts so far but what / whose green paint are you using for the coaches?

 

Chris,

 

I use RATP Service green ref 6231T in a 400ml spray can from Automotive Paint Supplies in Southampton. They also have units in Newbury and Aldershot I believe but you should be able to get similar at any auto paint supplier - I just went along and asked showing them a swatch painted with PP BRSR coach green and they mixed it on the spot. I generally use about 5 light coats over Halfords grey primer (etch primer on brass sides), each coat is touch (but don't!) dry after about 15 minutes which suits me as I have to spray outside. I have never been able to master an airbrush. 

 

Last can cost £12 but like Halfords it does not clog or spit (provided you take the usual care) and I can paint about 5-6 coaches per can.

 

Hope that helps

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Tony

 

It was a while ago, and I used the sides marketed at the time by 247 Developments, which seem to have disappeared since the business has transferred to a new owner. The etches did have the extended sides and could be used in the same way as the Comet sides, but you had to bend them yourself which resulted in one of my sides ending up distinctly banana shaped! Fortunately I was just in time to get a replacement and complete the rake.

 

DSCF1222.JPG

 

DSCF1224a.JPG

 

DSCF1218.JPG

 

I think Bill Bedford may do the sides in the Mousa Models range, but not sure of their current availability. There was a lot of work in the 6 coaches and it will be a while before I am ready to tackle another set!

 

Tony

The Bill Bedford sides for the 'Bournemouth' Restaurant Car are neat etchings, however I believe the two 'Toilet' (narrow) Windows (as seen in the pic above, Kitchen end, frosted/grey) are too deep in comparison to the King Diagram. It's not a huge problem, just a bit annoying to my eye. 

The sides were available in November 17 as I obtained some then.

Phil

[145 Squadron]

The Bill Bedford sides for the 'Bournemouth' Restaurant Car are neat etchings, however I believe the two 'Toilet' (narrow) Windows (as seen in the pic above, Kitchen end, frosted/grey) are too deep in comparison to the King Diagram. It's not a huge problem, just a bit annoying to my eye. 

The sides were available in November 17 as I obtained some then.

Phil

 

Phil,

 

The sides I used were 247 developments so the Bill Bedford ones may be more correct. I did not notice this when making the coaches but was aware that on these etchings the etched holes for the door handles were all the wrong height on the doors but decided I could live with that.

 

I would describe myself as a model coach modifier and assembler and could not build a coach to the standard of the Hornby Maunsell's. If is was not for the specialist suppliers in this hobby such as Southern Pride, Comet (now Wizard), MJT, Kirk etc (usual disclaimer) and many others I would not be able to make any of these models. I started this thread as I had read comments from some contributors asking why Hornby or Bachmann had not produced catering vehicles or updated Bulleids for their southern layouts, particularly with the current plethora of good southern locos being produced. I have gained much from other members threads over the years, not only in coach construction (including your invaluable help with the cafeteria car) but for locos too.

 

Most of my coaches have some error or omission in their construction but I endeavour to make some improvement, however small, each time I construct a new model and my hope is that I can help other to avoid some of those mistakes in their builds.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Phil,

 

The sides I used were 247 developments so the Bill Bedford ones may be more correct. I did not notice this when making the coaches but was aware that on these etchings the etched holes for the door handles were all the wrong height on the doors but decided I could live with that.

 

I would describe myself as a model coach modifier and assembler and could not build a coach to the standard of the Hornby Maunsell's. If is was not for the specialist suppliers in this hobby such as Southern Pride, Comet (now Wizard), MJT, Kirk etc (usual disclaimer) and many others I would not be able to make any of these models. I started this thread as I had read comments from some contributors asking why Hornby or Bachmann had not produced catering vehicles or updated Bulleids for their southern layouts, particularly with the current plethora of good southern locos being produced. I have gained much from other members threads over the years, not only in coach construction (including your invaluable help with the cafeteria car) but for locos too.

 

Most of my coaches have some error or omission in their construction but I endeavour to make some improvement, however small, each time I construct a new model and my hope is that I can help other to avoid some of those mistakes in their builds.

 

Tony

Tony, your coaches are wowser as far as I'm concerend. They look superb and would grace any layout and I am so envious of your painting skills. I still have not persued the 'mix' that you kindly suggested some time back now. However, there is a resoloution for me for 2018.

I wish you well and a productive new year and thanks for the inspiration.

Phil (@ Spirit of Seaton Junction)