Southern Region Coaches from my Workbench

[145 Squadron]

Now the festivities are over, a bit more progress on the 2 coach Bulleid set:

 

 

Having glued a strip of 5 thou plasticard along the midline of the donor coach (to support the more rounded Bulleid profile) I then promptly cut most of it off in making holes to accommodate the windows on the brass sides. I know many modellers would just cut a large rectangle out for the window recess but I found on these donors it left the cant rail plastic very weak as it is quite a soft material anyway. When happy I have enough gap to attach glazing material the brass sides are attached to the plastic donor with Evo Stick and secured with lining tape until thoroughly dried. the Evo Stick is great in that it actually melts the plastic of the donor coach side so provide you have properly cleaned up the brass overlay they will never come apart!

 

 

In the above photo I have bushed the Bachmann bogies (having removed the coupling to accommodate the coach coupling mechanism. Southern Pride trusses have been attached to the underframe and a bottom edge added to the solebar from 5 thou plasticard. Plasticard floor blanks were cut out using the old interior moulding as a template, also marked out for fixing screws as these not only hold the interior in place but keep the sides attached to the underframe as well. Interior layout has been copied from the plans to the floor to aid building up the partitions. I now always check this drawing to the coach sides as it was not unknown to find a partition in a window frame of the coach later if not careful!

 

 

The two basic coaches put together for a 'first fit'; one small but tedious job is to file a small bevel onto the top of all the doors; this is most noticeable on the prototype photos. the sides have not yet been cleaned up or any door furniture added. Next step is to build the interiors.

 

I hope the description and pictures are helpful.

 

Tony

 

 

[145 Squadron]

I have now finished the interiors for the Bulleid coaches, using Southern Pride seats and partitions with the rest from 20 thou plasticard.

 

Sides have been cleaned up and holes drilled for door handles, commode handles and bump stops.

 

Roof detail has now all been added, mainly using cast parts from MJT. Railstrips from micro strip. I have only added one rainstrip to each side (originally two) as by the early '60's - the period for these models - most Bulleids seem to have been recanvased with only one strip although there were of course exceptions.

 

Underframe detailing started with the vacuum pipe added to the corridor side of both coaches.

 

 

Next job is to add the underframe detail. I am always a little unsure on this as by this period all the Prestall brake cylinders were out of use and had been replaced by smaller cylinders on each side of the underframe with attendant reservoirs. However studying photos some coaches appear to have kept the original larger single reservoir and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to which prevailed on which sets. I have modelled both arrangements before but the larger reservoir is a pain as there is nothing (as far as I am aware) large enough available commercially and they have to be made up from scratch.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Tony

[2ManySpams]

Comet used to make the larger cylinder. It was brass tube with white metal ends.

[Mallard60022]

Comet used to make the larger cylinder. It was brass tube with white metal ends.

I think that was the Cylinder for the Original Tavern Spams. The Cylinders for the Bulleids in a Comet Kit are just two WM castings. The Single Prestell Cylinder in the centre of the UF isn't really visible unless you are searching for stuff at track level and the different brake linkage arrangemeny is also hardly noticeable apart from the V hangers outside the Trusses. AFAIK Comet never provided a casting for the PrestellTank. I had never noticed until very recently that the Baccy Bulleids had the Prestell Tank and no V Hangers. Doh!

Phil 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Mallard60022

[2ManySpams]

I think that was the Cylinder for the Original Tavern Spams. The Cylinders for the Bulleids in a Comet Kit are just two WM castings. The Single Prestell Cylinder in the centre of the UF isn't really visible unless you are searching for stuff at track level and the different brake linkage arrangemeny is also hardly noticeable apart from the V hangers outside the Trusses. AFAIK Comet never provided a casting for the PrestellTank. I had never noticed until very recently that the Baccy Bulleids had the Prestell Tank and no V Hangers. Doh!

Phil

 

Just dug out my 4mm Bulleid part builds and it looks like I may have used brass tube and filler...

[Mallard60022]

Just dug out my 4mm Bulleid part builds and it looks like I may have used brass tube and filler...

Good idea as the Comet castings are generic. I would aspire to your standard of coach production (in 4mm of course)

Phil

[2ManySpams]

Good idea as the Comet castings are generic. I would aspire to your standard of coach production (in 4mm of course)

Phil

Such a shame I never finished any of the 20 I had on the go in various stages of not very complete. Tony puts me to shame.

[Mallard60022]

Such a shame I never finished any of the 20 I had on the go in various stages of not very complete. Tony puts me to shame.

I know that feeling......................

[145 Squadron]

I think that was the Cylinder for the Original Tavern Spams. The Cylinders for the Bulleids in a Comet Kit are just two WM castings. The Single Prestell Cylinder in the centre of the UF isn't really visible unless you are searching for stuff at track level and the different brake linkage arrangemeny is also hardly noticeable apart from the V hangers outside the Trusses. AFAIK Comet never provided a casting for the PrestellTank. I had never noticed until very recently that the Baccy Bulleids had the Prestell Tank and no V Hangers. Doh!

Phil 

 

Thank you Phil and others for your positive and helpful comments.

 

I was not aware of the arrangement on Bachmann coach underframe, but in any case I have passed all mine on. Southern Pride include a plastic moulding for the Prestall cylinder but I have to confess I usually leave it off as it is not noticeable unless you are looking at the coach upside down. I note that others have made the 2' dia reservoir for their stock - the interesting thing to me is that having looked through some of my picture books and the internet for the preserved prototypes there seems to be several examples of the large reservoir on different types of coach, including the later built thirds; the use of the smaller reservoirs seems more restricted in BR days. It could be that the original reservoir was retained on earlier builds unless replacements were required due to corrosion or damage? Whilst I agree the smaller reservoirs are not really noticeable (although easy to fit and supplied from at least two different sources) the larger reservoir does notice as it is quite prominent between the battery box and V hanger on one side. I have made several before using plastic tube but it is much easier to just stick on the ready made ones!

 

Another issue is the guards door handles on this stock; the drawings I have insist that there are two separate handles to the guards door on these coaches, whereas all the later pictures I can find show one continuous long handle - after I had drilled all the holes for two! Likewise the lower handle on the van doors seems to be missing on a lot of later photos.  

 

As ever, the use of prototype photos is essential (where available) and I usually find one for the stock I am building showing incorrect details on my model immediately after I have completed it! 

 

Probably for a lot of people this seem to be nit picking over small details, but I like to try and get the details as accurate as I can bearing in mind the amount of time I am spending on the build anyway.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Thank you Phil and others for your positive and helpful comments.

 

I was not aware of the arrangement on Bachmann coach underframe, but in any case I have passed all mine on. Southern Pride include a plastic moulding for the Prestall cylinder but I have to confess I usually leave it off as it is not noticeable unless you are looking at the coach upside down. I note that others have made the 2' dia reservoir for their stock - the interesting thing to me is that having looked through some of my picture books and the internet for the preserved prototypes there seems to be several examples of the large reservoir on different types of coach, including the later built thirds; the use of the smaller reservoirs seems more restricted in BR days. It could be that the original reservoir was retained on earlier builds unless replacements were required due to corrosion or damage? Whilst I agree the smaller reservoirs are not really noticeable (although easy to fit and supplied from at least two different sources) the larger reservoir does notice as it is quite prominent between the battery box and V hanger on one side. I have made several before using plastic tube but it is much easier to just stick on the ready made ones!

 

Another issue is the guards door handles on this stock; the drawings I have insist that there are two separate handles to the guards door on these coaches, whereas all the later pictures I can find show one continuous long handle - after I had drilled all the holes for two! Likewise the lower handle on the van doors seems to be missing on a lot of later photos.  

 

As ever, the use of prototype photos is essential (where available) and I usually find one for the stock I am building showing incorrect details on my model immediately after I have completed it! 

 

Probably for a lot of people this seem to be nit picking over small details, but I like to try and get the details as accurate as I can bearing in mind the amount of time I am spending on the build anyway.

 

Tony

Yes, bit of a nightmare isn't it and I understand your needs. Sadly, unless you have a photo of the exact coach at the exact time then you have to rely on Mr King's efforts (and other stuff within the allowable era; photo's and maybe others' drawings). Don't get me started on the ones without 'inner end' buffers and also the removed end steps (except for the lowewr ones).

I have decided that if it is the correct colour and looks 'about right' from operating distance, I am OK and am more concerned with running about the right formations as far as is possible. 

[145 Squadron]

I see Bachmann have just announced this set in BR SR green in their 2018/9 programme - grrrr!

 

Hopefully I will beat them in terms of having the finished article.

 

The Ex Kirk sides have turned up to make a start on the Maunsell dia 2666 buffet so will try and finish the Bulleids to make a start on that coach next (hopefully Hornby are not going to announce that in their programme later today).

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

I see Bachmann have just announced this set in BR SR green in their 2018/9 programme - grrrr!

 

Hopefully I will beat them in terms of having the finished article.

 

The Ex Kirk sides have turned up to make a start on the Maunsell dia 2666 buffet so will try and finish the Bulleids to make a start on that coach next (hopefully Hornby are not going to announce that in their programme later today).

 

Tony

     

[sandwich station]

I see Bachmann have just announced this set in BR SR green in their 2018/9 programme - grrrr!

If Bachmann have just announced it, you have at least 2 years to do yours.

[Tony Teague]

Hi Tony

Where did you source the plastic roof tank mouldings please?

Incidentally, I believe that Marc Models has a moulding for the large central air cylinders that you have been discussing.

(call Mike Radford 0208 440 5918, 9-5).

 

Tony

[145 Squadron]

Hi Tony

Where did you source the plastic roof tank mouldings please?

Incidentally, I believe that Marc Models has a moulding for the large central air cylinders that you have been discussing.

(call Mike Radford 0208 440 5918, 9-5).

 

Tony

 

Tony,

 

Thanks for that info re the reservoirs - I made up a couple from plastic tube yesterday, but will bear in mind for future requirements.

 

The roof tank mouldings are Southern Pride, cut to length.

 

Tony

[John Tomlinson]

I see Bachmann have just announced this set in BR SR green in their 2018/9 programme - grrrr!

 

Hopefully I will beat them in terms of having the finished article.

 

The Ex Kirk sides have turned up to make a start on the Maunsell dia 2666 buffet so will try and finish the Bulleids to make a start on that coach next (hopefully Hornby are not going to announce that in their programme later today).

 

Tony

 

One of the Maunsell Restaurants is on the list. Bet yours are better!

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

     

Not Quite what you wanted but a decent addition?

Phil

[Bibby Line]

As a recipient of coaches I am sure that Tony's coaches will look better than the Hornby/Bachmann newcomers.

 

Several reasons including the specific research detail and that his coaches have a paint finish!

 

Eddie

[Mallard60022]

One of the Maunsell Restaurants is on the list. Bet yours are better!

 

John.

Just been having a dig into the Hornby Coach. From 1946 it was D2657 with the same layout more or less as D2651/55 (as in King) but with 'Special Fittings' (whatever they were?) and loose chairs. I don't think the internals will be that visible and the external appearance hardly changed AFAICS. Thus I can live with the Hornby numbered version and three rebranded others (4 were converted as above according to King and for W of E service), probably without me redoing the loose chairs rather than fitted seating. I suspect the Hornby coach will come with fitted seats  as suitable for the earlier version. We shall have to see. 

I'm not quite as excited as I was because D2659 & D2666 were more often used on trains I've seen and are very different externally, as we are seeing on Tony's lovely builds.

So plenty for me to convert or commission having seen Tony's  high standard  of work.

Phil

[145 Squadron]

Just been having a dig into the Hornby Coach. From 1946 it was D2657 with the same layout more or less as D2651/55 (as in King) but with 'Special Fittings' (whatever they were?) and loose chairs. I don't think the internals will be that visible and the external appearance hardly changed AFAICS. Thus I can live with the Hornby numbered version and three rebranded others (4 were converted as above according to King and for W of E service), probably without me redoing the loose chairs rather than fitted seating. I suspect the Hornby coach will come with fitted seats  as suitable for the earlier version. We shall have to see. 

I'm not quite as excited as I was because D2659 & D2666 were more often used on trains I've seen and are very different externally, as we are seeing on Tony's lovely builds.

So plenty for me to convert or commission having seen Tony's  high standard  of work.

Phil

 

 

This was my take on the Maunsell restaurant first, built 2009 - I think it uses Ratio bogies but is otherwise mainly the Colin Ashby (ex Kirk) kit. Interior was scratch built; the lamps are Peco bearings! Showing its age and a bit fragile now, particularly the glazing which I superglued as I had not yet discovered canopy glue.

 

It will be interesting to see Hornby's take on this coach and should provide a good base to convert to the buffet which started this thread.

 

Tony

[145 Squadron]

More progress on the two coach Bulleid 'R' set:

 

 

Interior painted.

 

 

This is far as I am going at the moment on this set; underframe painted, exterior details fitted - I will have to wait for a suitable day to paint the sides

 

 

Whilst waiting to paint the sides of the Bulleid set I have made a start on the Maunsell dia 2666 buffet (the one Hornby are not making). Mousa Models sides above with a Hornby Maunsell corridor third as a donor. I also have a MM Maunsell dia 2007 to make (the one with the window ventilators) as the attached restaurant car. I have stripped the Hornby donor today (managed to save all the commode handles and most of the roof vents!). The big problem with these coaches is how to arrange the narrowed body section by the end doors; on the MM etch the door section is separate but I think trying to join the main body section with the tumbleholme and the door section with a vertical bend is going to be too difficult for my limited soldering skills. I have purchased some Ex-Kirk open second side mouildings to see if I can somehow use the end part of them to form the recessed door section.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Class.

Phil

[145 Squadron]

Progress on the Maunsell buffet coach has been slow as I have struggled to find an acceptable way to amalgamate the Mousa Models brass sides with the Ex Kirk end doors and then to fit into the Hornby donor coach shell.

 

 

The Ex Kirk side was cut in half, having marked the position to fit to the brass sides, then the top half cut off to allow the flush fitting of the windows. I had already soldered the door droplights into the other doors in the brass sides. The plastic ends were then glued onto the brass sides with Evo Stick, clamped and allowed to dry. As the Kirk sides only cover half the brass sides I cut up the Hornby coach side from the previous buffet conversion to provide support for the other half of the side. The Mousa Models sides for this coach are full height including the cant rail so joining to the Hornby coach is going to be interesting; to facilitate this join I have added a 40 thou X 1.5mm strip to the top of the side on the inside, using additional plastic supports where necessary. This strip also neatly fills the cant rail gap between the Kirk side and the Mousa side. The step between the two sides has been contoured with filler.

 

 

It looks a bit of a mess but is quite sturdy once the glues have dried. No external fittings have been added to the sides yet.

 

 

While waiting for the glue on the sides to dry I have made a start on the interior. I will have to sort through my stocks to find suitable seats but the tables will have to be scratch built from plasticard to suit.

 

Tony

[Mallard60022]

Progress on the Maunsell buffet coach has been slow as I have struggled to find an acceptable way to amalgamate the Mousa Models brass sides with the Ex Kirk end doors and then to fit into the Hornby donor coach shell.

 

DSCF2401.JPG

 

The Ex Kirk side was cut in half, having marked the position to fit to the brass sides, then the top half cut off to allow the flush fitting of the windows. I had already soldered the door droplights into the other doors in the brass sides. The plastic ends were then glued onto the brass sides with Evo Stick, clamped and allowed to dry. As the Kirk sides only cover half the brass sides I cut up the Hornby coach side from the previous buffet conversion to provide support for the other half of the side. The Mousa Models sides for this coach are full height including the cant rail so joining to the Hornby coach is going to be interesting; to facilitate this join I have added a 40 thou X 1.5mm strip to the top of the side on the inside, using additional plastic supports where necessary. This strip also neatly fills the cant rail gap between the Kirk side and the Mousa side. The step between the two sides has been contoured with filler.

 

DSCF2403.JPG

 

It looks a bit of a mess but is quite sturdy once the glues have dried. No external fittings have been added to the sides yet.

 

DSCF2402.JPG

 

While waiting for the glue on the sides to dry I have made a start on the interior. I will have to sort through my stocks to find suitable seats but the tables will have to be scratch built from plasticard to suit.

 

Tony

Looks like a great soloution to me Tony. It will be interesting to see how this fits. I must dig out my BB sides and have fiddle with the inset doors; I have done a Gresly with insets and they were a bit of an arse.

Phil 

[eldavo]

You really are the master of the cut and shut. I'm never going to buy a used car from you!

 

Cheers

Dave