4mm/OO 4-wheel or 6-wheel Coaches & wagons - kits etc. up to 1920

[Ruston]

Afternoon all,

 

I am thinking about things for my next layout that is still being planned. It will be a mineral railway/ light railway, set in a variable period (by changing figures, road vehicles and some rolling stock to suit) from around 1900 - 1920. I know virtually nothing of suppliers of things for this period in 4mm, so I'm hoping you can help me.

 

I'm quite happy to build kits in any material but due to planned gradients and the use of small industrial locomotives I don't really want whitemetal stock. I would like to know what is available in passenger and goods/mineral stock. I don't mind a bit of scratchbuilding so suppliers of parts such as buffers, axle guards, axleboxes and brake gear wil also be useful.

 

Because it's a light railway/ mineral line I'm open to any company's coaching stock as it will be presumed to be second hand anyway but, obviously, a coach built in the later part of the period modelled probably wouldn't be second hand by 1920, so some prototype knowledge is welcome as I now very little about passenger stock, being that my layouts are all industrial and between 4 layouts in two scales I posess only two coaches!

 

The wagons can go right up to 1920 as new wagons belonging to any of the main line companies would be worked in the public goods traffic coming onto the railway but anything L&Y would be a bonus as the planned area of the layout is the Calder Valley in the West Riding.

 

Thanks.

[Portchullin Tatty]

You have a vast selection to chose from!  Here are a few from the top of my head.

 

Roxey Mouldings - emphasis on the southern pre-group companies

London Road Models - MR, LNWR, NLR and others

Lochgorm Models - Highland (NB, this includes some very old vehicles, potentially quite suitable for you)

D&S - a wide range of prototypes; NER, L&Y, GER, GNR, MR and others.  No longer attending shows but if you are prepared to wait (a long time) then he will still supply the etches

Caley Coaches - CR prototypes

NBR 4mm Developments - NBR prototypes

Ratio - some GWR 4 wheelers

Mousa Models - some GNR

Prickly Pear - GNSR prototypes

 

This is hardly the end of the list, you have a huge range of possibilities.

 

Remember that if you are modelling and light railway line, there probably are no rules as the company would acquire from wherever they could.

 

6 wheeled vehicles are a bit more challenging to get going than 4 wheeled; find the Brassmasters cleminson chassis.

[davknigh]

Ratio GWR four wheelers should still be available and can be changed by adjusting details like the door fittings to look a little less GWRish. Slaters did Midland 6 wheelers a while back but I’m not sure how available they would be. There are a variety of brass coaches available from the likes of Bill Bedford and a number of others.

 

HTH

 

David

[burgundy]

I know that you said "not whitemetal", but the 5 & 9 range includes some suitably vintage items. How about a first class coupe? Not unlike the royal  saloon that spent its final years on the K&ESR. I imagine that you are not looking at long trains, so your small industrials should be able to shuffle a couple of carriages around (especially if they are fitted with pin point bearings).

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Andy Hayter]

Cambrian - wagon kits, many too late but they do a few LBSCR and LSWR from the first decade of the 20th century, plus a very large range of Gloucester WW private owner wagons and a few other as well.  Old versions on Ebay come decorated but the current range are undecorated.

[wagonman]

Ratio GWR four wheelers should still be available and can be changed by adjusting details like the door fittings to look a little less GWRish. Slaters did Midland 6 wheelers a while back but I’m not sure how available they would be. There are a variety of brass coaches available from the likes of Bill Bedford and a number of others.

 

HTH

 

David

 

 

The Ratio 4-wheelers were of prototypes built 1890-1905 so not really suitable for Ruston's purposes, alas. But a look at Worsley Works might be useful particularly his LT&SR 4-wheelers. http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/ – also have a look at the Australian http://steamandthings.com/fpage4.htm site.

 

All the above are etched brass – and not always complete kits!

[Skinnylinny]

Coming slightly out of left field, there are some ready-to-run coaches that could be a good start in the Bachmann (US) Thomas range. I'd avoid "Annie and Clarabel" because they have panelling at one end, but not that the other - the requirement for a face meaning that one end of each is flat apart from a nose.

However, the "Red branchline coaches" (3-compartment brake and 4-compartment) resemble the LBSCR Stroudley coaches of the 1870s although they're far from perfect, but they do have moulded panelling. Here are mine, repainted, with some etched grab rails from Roxey mouldings (Buffers and other detailing bits from the aforementioned 5 & 9 models will be added later):

 

There are also some freelance clerestory 6-wheelers (with flangeless centre wheels) in the range under the name "Emily's Coaches", although the "brake" is only made a brake by the painting of some compartment windows white:

 

 

Granted, both of these are fairly basic but they give an easy starting point for customisation. They can be acquired in the UK from (amongst others) "Tootally Thomas" and "The Dieselworks"

Edited December 28, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[Ruston]

Thanks, chaps. Plenty of stuff there to be looking at. Even if I don't run one, one of those 5&9 coaches could be used as the equivalent to the ubiquitous "grounded van body" on more modern layouts .I guess some of the 5&9 coaches would have been 50 or more years old in 1900?

[Edwardian]

Many in your position just paint up a couple of the Ratio GW 4-wheelers.  Nothing wrong with that, and they make good Light Railway coaches in grubby monochrome livery. They are relatively new for hand-me-downs in the '20s (1890s prototypes), and, of course, are rather Great Western in unaltered state.

 

An arguably more prototypical approach might be to look at the mainline railway stock that actually was disposed of and, therefore, found its way onto a number of Light Railway or colliery lines.  Probably the most familiar example is that of the North London 4-wheelers, but there were others.  The Mersey Railway disposed of its steam-hauled stock when it went electric, which found their way to several lines, and around 1900, the Great Eastern disposed of large numbers of 4-wheelers of 1860s vintage.

 

See Kidner for more examples - which I don't have presently to hand.

[Nick Holliday]

Sorry - started writing this before anyone else had answered, and had the break off to entertain grandchildren, and I didn't check when I got back to it to see how the response had been! Much of what follows repeats what others have said so if. You are in a hurry, please ignore.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the main sources of early pregrouping coaching stock are biased towards the LBSCR. The main supplier of very early versions you have already ruled out, as 5&9 Models only produce white metals kits, but, thanks to their small size, and fine mastering, they are not as heavy as, say, the clunky old K's kits. Their wagon kits similarly are quite light, as well. For etched kits Roxey Mouldings and London Road Models have some early Stroudley stock that would date from early 1870s, and http://ianmaccormacmodels.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/kitsetches-for-purchase.html lists some Craven types that might be available. There are some other makers that might fit your bill, LRM have some early LNWR stock, Bill Bedford lists various types, such as one from the Cleator and Egremont Railway, and Prickly Pear have some early GNoSR designs.

I am not aware of any plastic kits that cover the earlier period, certainly regarding passenger stock, apart from perhaps the Ratio GWR Iron Mink which design turned up on the Bishops Castle Railway, so the only alternative is to trawl through the Shapeways catalogue to see if there is anything 3D printed that might suit.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Nick Holliday

[Steamport Southport]

London Road Models make L&YR 6 wheelers. I would think that these would be getting withdrawn around about 1920ish.

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/carriages/lancs-yorks-cariages/

 

Also a list of what is available in the way of L&YR.

 

http://www.lyrs.org.uk/4mm-Suppliers

 

 

 

Jason

[JimF51]

Unless I'm mistaken, haven't Steam & Things stopped kit manufacturing? The website home page seems to indicat so, and there are no active links to kits, or products.

 

Also, is Chris Cox, (5&9 Models) still producing kits? His website indicates he is, in small batches, and selling via ebay, but there are not sales listed currently, and searching Completed Items comes up empty, as well.

 

Just wondering.

 

Jim F

[Nick Holliday]

Unless I'm mistaken, haven't Steam & Things stopped kit manufacturing? The website home page seems to indicat so, and there are no active links to kits, or products.

 

Also, is Chris Cox, (5&9 Models) still producing kits? His website indicates he is, in small batches, and selling via ebay, but there are not sales listed currently, and searching Completed Items comes up empty, as well.

 

Just wondering.

 

Jim F

In the previous issue of the superb LBSCR Modellers Digest, http://www.lbscr.org/Models/Journal/LBSCR-Modellers-Digest-5.pdf#page120, edited by Burgundy of this parish, Chris Cox has an updated catalogue that would suggest that he is back in business.

[Poor Old Bruce]

For simple kit bashing, how about Ratio 4-wheel coaches with a simple single arc roof?

 

Another option would be to cut and shut some Tri-ang clerestories down to shorter vehicles. I found one at a swapmeet which has been cut down to four compartments, the roof is single arc and the wheels are mounted on chopped up bits of bogie. Footboards are plastic strip mounted on bits of wire set into the floor.

[Skinnylinny]

Unless I'm mistaken, haven't Steam & Things stopped kit manufacturing? The website home page seems to indicat so, and there are no active links to kits, or products.

 

Also, is Chris Cox, (5&9 Models) still producing kits? His website indicates he is, in small batches, and selling via ebay, but there are not sales listed currently, and searching Completed Items comes up empty, as well.

 

Just wondering.

 

Jim F

I recently (within the last month or so) placed an order with Chris, mostly for a quantity of detailing parts, but also for some wagon kits. He replied to my email order letting me know that it might take a week or two as he would be casting the wagons to order. He's definitely still producing, but the best method of finding out what's available seems to be to drop him an email with a list of what you're looking for. 

[Edwardian]

For simple kit bashing, how about Ratio 4-wheel coaches with a simple single arc roof?

 

Another option would be to cut and shut some Tri-ang clerestories down to shorter vehicles. I found one at a swapmeet which has been cut down to four compartments, the roof is single arc and the wheels are mounted on chopped up bits of bogie. Footboards are plastic strip mounted on bits of wire set into the floor.

 

I agree, both provide good freelance options.  This is a panel style that only became common during the 1880s, so they perhaps typify the 1890s and 1900s, and thought might be given to the supposed vintage of your coaches. 

 

The single arc roof converts both donor types into fairly generic panelled coaches, and helps lend them a slightly older look..   

[Guy Rixon]

If you're feeling flush, how about some ex-MDR 4-wheeled coaches? When the MDR electrified in 1905 they sold of a lot of these trains. If you don't like the price pf the prints, they would be trivial to scratch-build, having square-cornered mouldings and flat sides.

[brumtb]

Smallbrook Studio has some interesting ex LBSC 4 wheelers which were used on the Isle of Wight and could well have gone elsewhere.

 

 http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/kits-parts/4569521210/4mm-IoW-Southern

[Ruston]

If you're feeling flush, how about some ex-MDR 4-wheeled coaches? When the MDR electrified in 1905 they sold of a lot of these trains. If you don't like the price pf the prints, they would be trivial to scratch-build, having square-cornered mouldings and flat sides.

They're 3D printed, aren't they? I've never had anything to do with 3D printing but the last time I saw some 3D printed models up close the surface looked quite rough. Is this the case with these, do you know?

 

 

Smallbrook Studio has some interesting ex LBSC 4 wheelers which were used on the Isle of Wight and could well have gone elsewhere.

 

 http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/kits-parts/4569521210/4mm-IoW-Southern

They look very nice and I notice that they also do contractor's side-tipping wagons, which are something that I also need. I was originally going to get the RT Models contractor's wagons but I discovered that they aren't intended for OO and so would take a lot of faffing around with to make them OO. They're also whitemetal, which is against them, so I was going to scratchbuild but the Smallbrook versions look very nice and, with the photos showing tension lock couplers, they are presumably suitable for OO. Do you know what material they are made in?

[Penlan]

 Do you know what material they are made in?

Resin

See http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/building-our-kits/4593427527

[Guy Rixon]

They're 3D printed, aren't they? I've never had anything to do with 3D printing but the last time I saw some 3D printed models up close the surface looked quite rough. Is this the case with these, do you know?

 

 

They look very nice and I notice that they also do contractor's side-tipping wagons, which are something that I also need. I was originally going to get the RT Models contractor's wagons but I discovered that they aren't intended for OO and so would take a lot of faffing around with to make them OO. They're also whitemetal, which is against them, so I was going to scratchbuild but the Smallbrook versions look very nice and, with the photos showing tension lock couplers, they are presumably suitable for OO. Do you know what material they are made in?

 

 

The MDR coaches are only available in "White Strong and Flexible" (WSF) plastic. This is a kind of nylon printed with significant texture where it should be flat. WSF is supposed to be a cheap alternative to the finer materials, like "Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD).

 

It will need smoothing if you want to model a painted surface. If you modelled them to represent varnished teak (which is how they were when the MDR sold them), then you might get away without sanding and filling the plastic, because the simulated grain in the teak disguises the texture of the print.

 

Please note that haven't personally built coaches from these prints. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Guy Rixon

[ChrisN]

Lots of replies already.  In terms of wagons Cambrian Kits also do the Cambrian Railways 2 and 4 plank open wagons.  Slaters do a number of PO wagons of early 2oth century vintage but are only available off EBay now.

 

I think most of the main suppliers have been mentioned.  There are a number of 3D coaches on Shapeways as well but as you have mentioned they can be a little rough and need priming and then rubbing, either with wet and dry or as I did on an MSLR coach that had fine beading with a side of an end of a cocktail stick.

 

One other supplier is CamKIts, see this thread.  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100001-cambrian-rlys-coach-kits/  Richard Evans has made these etches of Cambrian 4 wheel coaches.

 

If you have access to a Silhouette cutter I have some files of MSLR six wheel coaches.  I am going to run experiments on how to get them to go round tight corners.

 

Finally 5&9 are in production and this is the First Class Saloon from them.  I contacted Chris Cox through the link from the LB&SCR Digest previously put up and I was pleasantly surprised how quick my kits came.

 

 

It is not a beginners kit but you would walk it.  There is an explanation of how I built it on my thread.

 

Finally Shire Scences do brass sides for the Ratio plastic kits if you want something slightly different.

[Ruston]

To begin with I have ordered a Ratio GWR 4-wheeler, from Hattons. I'm not sure what is meant by "single arc" roof. What is the difference with that and what is, presumably, in the kit as it comes?

[Edwardian]

To begin with I have ordered a Ratio GWR 4-wheeler, from Hattons. I'm not sure what is meant by "single arc" roof. What is the difference with that and what is, presumably, in the kit as it comes?

[Ruston]

I see! Was that roof shape something that was particular only to the GWR then?