RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 You would like to think so, but in a class that old it is unlikely that there will be two locos exactly the same, though the essential interfaces will be the same in principle. However, whether the wiring routes are the same is a different question! Of the 4 cambrian ERTMS fitted locos there aren’t even 2 the same in that sub class! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2018 Mark Carne refers to them as traffic lights That just makes it even worse. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 That just makes it even worse. Regards, Ian. I am not so sure - I would guess it is an attempt to explain to the layperson what the new digital strategy replaces. Few, outside railway operators and informed enthusiasts, appear to understand what signals are, how they work or suchlike (even on here occasionally), so whilst it might seem anathema to us, I think it might have a place in a public (as opposed to trade) press briefing. Indeed, they are lights, and they do manage traffic, but not as the man person on the Clapham omnibus Borisbus knows it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 Mark Carne refers to them as traffic lights If that's right that is just another example if when you bring an unqualified outsider into the railway and they can't be bothered to learn our years old terminology but make up their own and expect railwaymen to learn their terminology. As I have said many times on here its things like this which gives people like me no incentive to have any respect for those running the job these days! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 If that's right that is just another example if when you bring an unqualified outsider into the railway and they can't be bothered to learn our years old terminology but make up their own and expect railwaymen to learn their terminology. As I have said many times on here its things like this which gives people like me no incentive to have any respect for those running the job these days! In the Gas industry we used to say about such managers "They don't know the difference between gas and paraffin" !!!!! Sad world today - run by accountants and creeps. Brit15 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 If that's right that is just another example if when you bring an unqualified outsider into the railway and they can't be bothered to learn our years old terminology but make up their own and expect railwaymen to learn their terminology. As I have said many times on here its things like this which gives people like me no incentive to have any respect for those running the job these days! Nice but wrong. Carne has delivered many papers and speeches which clearly show he has a complete appreciation of how railways work. His previous incarnation on the energy industry required an ability to comprehend complex technical issues, so your assertion is misplaced. If he had been an estate agent, or government appointee from a chum's bank, or similar, I would agree. Having no respect for people "who run the railways these days" is your choice. But it has absolutely no relevance over the many decades of railway ownership,under various guises, where most chairmen, or later, chief executives, were brought in from other industries, or had been involved only in the financial or political aspects of railway operation. I recall much the same accusations being levelled in my early railway career. Chris Green, for example, was a history graduate and then a management trainee. He never drove a train, mended a set of points, or pulled a signal lever. Yet he was one of the best railway managers we ever had (after perhaps Gerard Fiennes who did actually do many of those things). I had been a shunter, sold tickets, and done many other front line roles and supervisory roles, before I became a manager, but I would never have been a great chairman or chief executive, as at least one other person on here will testify (shut yer face). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 Chris Green is someone I have a lot of respect for. I am not anti management at all in fact I spent several years as as a manager and I am semi management now. I was asked to become a traction inspector at the age of 25 after taking a big interest in the original class 60 training program. But nowadays most management is full of management cr@p speak rather than being there because they have an above average understanding of rules or traction in the case of footplate grades. Over my career I have met several managers that I had the up most respect of because of their knowledge of their roles. This sadly seems to have become avthing of the past Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The dead spots in the GSM-R network can be a right pain in the Aris', three which spring to mind on my route card are Leicester, nearby Kirby Muxloe on the Burton branch and the area around Willesden Euro Terminal. If I hit the 'SG' button on the Willesden Relief lines alongside the terminal it puts me through to Acton Canal Wharf 'box instead of Wembley Mainline. I know it's possible to sidestep this by finding and scrolling through the list of numbers in the display, but it's actually quicker to get down on the ballast and use the old SPT...! Is it any better round Willesden recently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2018 The dead spots in the GSM-R network can be a right pain in the Aris', three which spring to mind on my route card are Leicester, nearby Kirby Muxloe on the Burton branch and the area around Willesden Euro Terminal. If I hit the 'SG' button on the Willesden Relief lines alongside the terminal it puts me through to Acton Canal Wharf 'box instead of Wembley Mainline. I know it's possible to sidestep this by finding and scrolling through the list of numbers in the display, but it's actually quicker to get down on the ballast and use the old SPT...! hinksey is the same, many a time ive given "SG" and wondered why ive not had the road after a while, pushed speak to signaller and get through to moreton in marsh box! warrington bank quay is the same, right under the box, looking at the white of the signallers eyes and "contact signaller" puts you through to warrington central (which is on a completely different unconnected line!) i take it you do know how to find a particualr box on the system "menu" then "1" for calls, then "4" for phone book 2, find a specific type in box as if you were doing a text message 1 for A,B,C, 2 for D,E,F etc and spell out the first 3 letters of the name and it brings up all the boxes starting with whatever you type in, im quite lucky as i speak to ABBey forgate quite a bit and thats the first number on the list anyway! i know it may sound like im teaching you to suck eggs if you do know but a driver i was with last week while road learning didnt have a clue how to do the above at all, never been shown 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2018 Don't worry Jim, the Digital Railway will sort it all out, along with fixing all of the capacity and timetabling problems. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2018 Don't worry Jim, the Digital Railway will sort it all out, along with fixing all of the capacity and timetabling problems. its the future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) hinksey is the same, many a time ive given "SG" and wondered why ive not had the road after a while, pushed speak to signaller and get through to moreton in marsh box! warrington bank quay is the same, right under the box, looking at the white of the signallers eyes and "contact signaller" puts you through to warrington central (which is on a completely different unconnected line!) i take it you do know how to find a particualr box on the system "menu" then "1" for calls, then "4" for phone book 2, find a specific type in box as if you were doing a text message 1 for A,B,C, 2 for D,E,F etc and spell out the first 3 letters of the name and it brings up all the boxes starting with whatever you type in, im quite lucky as i speak to ABBey forgate quite a bit and thats the first number on the list anyway! i know it may sound like im teaching you to suck eggs if you do know but a driver i was with last week while road learning didnt have a clue how to do the above at all, never been shown No worries Jim, I know the routine when looking for a box number but try to avoid doing it if at all possible! Luckily, most of the places I regularly get stopped at have good coverage on the GSM-R, the only really bad one being Willesden if you happen to be on the two relief lines alongside the Euroterminal, where pressing the SG buttons brings forth the dulcet tones of the Acton Canal Wharf Bobby. I still get down to use the SPTs occasionally around Willesden and Wembley Yard to stretch my legs a bit and get a bit of fresh air. The lads down at Hinksey are a great bunch, they'll usually give on to the panel long beofre I've come to a stand at OX116 Edited June 20, 2018 by Rugd1022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Are 68s and 88s ERTMS ready from the factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Are 68s and 88s ERTMS ready from the factory? Not sure about those but Internally class 70s have an ETRMS circuit breaker fitted and I believe the plan is they can remove one of the in cab screens for an ERTMS screen, but there is no other wiring or equipment on them yet such as the external balise reader or special black box but space has been left for it Edited June 24, 2018 by big jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/09/03/digital-delusion-a-lesson-from-not-so-long-ago/ Interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 more info here https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/delivering-the-first-major-digital-railway-network-rail-procurement-launched-to-find-train-control-partner-for-route-digital-transformation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 In Recent News Siemens invited three lords to visit the Siemens/Thameslink train care facility and rail operating centre (ROC) at Three Bridges in Crawley: Lord Berkeley - Chair of the Rail Freight Group and an officer on a number of transport related All-Party Parliamentary Groups Lord Snape - Vice chair, All Party Parliamentary Rail Group Lord Bradshaw - Former member of the Strategic Rail Authority, former special advisor to the House of Commons Transport Select Committee, and former Liberal Democrat transport spokesperson in the House of Lords Lindsay Durham from Freightliner also accompanied them on this visit. Freight fitment This was an educational visit for the three lords to find out more about Thameslink European Train Control System (ETCS) deployment and how it relates to the future of freight fitment. They also met some of the signallers working with the traffic management system at the ROC. Dominic McSwiggan (principal programme sponsor for the Digital Railway Programme) and Gary Porter (project director for Infrastructure Projects), informed the three lords on the progress of the train and freight fitment programme. Grand Central's Class 180 trains are the first to be retro-fitted with ETCS and work begain on this in September. Following the visit, the lords said: "It was really encouraging to see the progress that has been made and that ETCS actually works in the UK". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2018 Dominic McSwiggan (principal programme sponsor for the Digital Railway Programme) and Gary Porter (project director for Infrastructure Projects), informed the three lords on the progress of the train and freight fitment programme. Grand Central's Class 180 trains are the first to be retro-fitted with ETCS and work begain on this in September. so grand centrals 180s are the first freight trains to be retro fitted, interesting, they will have to remove the shaftenberg coupling and replace with a hook and shackle and look forward to seeing them pulling biomass trains to sunderland very soon! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 It is a very strange article. Badly worded. I think the reason is the ECML is the first to be converted so anything that runs out of the Cross needs to be fitted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 guessing also anything that will run between Kings Cross and Stoke tunnel will need to be fitted? what about anything that runs Stamford to Kings Dyke? and will ETCS finish/start at the new Werrington dive under? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2018 https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/09/03/digital-delusion-a-lesson-from-not-so-long-ago/ Interesting It was absolutely hilarious. We, as a TOC, had a special presentation from two members of the development team (both from the USA) to the Deputy GM and myself and it quickly became clear that they didn't have a clue about UK operating conditions or much idea about UK infrastructure. The real killer came when I asked them about the size of the electronic fit required to be installed on a traction unit and the reply was 'about the size of a coffin' and when I asked quite where we, let alone somebody operating normal UK EMU sets, was supposed to put this thing they said replied 'surely your trains have plenty of room?' At this point I told them that the engineering folk were already scratching their heads about where to put an additional ICMU (Interference Current Monitoring Unit) in our power cars and that wasn't quite as big as their box of tricks. There were clearly various other problems they had never thought of when asked about such things as tunnels (they'll be one section was the reply - they obviously didn't know about Kilsby) and the interface with track circuited/lineside signalled sections of route. overall they seemed to be talking far more in wish list terms rather than having examined any practical questions. The successor scheme was not much better, and of course included the sort of things which presumably are now going into these various 'digital railway' ideas. I did some ISA work on it in my consultancy days on part relating to freight trains and found that the developers had built part of their system around a completely, and dangerously, incorrect series of assumptions about Exceptional Loads because they had failed to grasp, and in some respects had been misinformed, about the way the system worked and what it dealt with. One can but hope teh digital railway lot are somewhat better informed about where they should be starting from. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 its the future https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/11/15/the-digital-railway-progresses-to-the-east-coast-main-line/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/11/15/the-digital-railway-progresses-to-the-east-coast-main-line/ Interesting article for laymen. The comment that ETCS is 'very expensive' brought a wry smile to my lips because one of the justifications for ETCS was that by providing interchangeable equipment from multiple suppliers costs would be reduced. It's the first item I have heard TPWS being described as an 'analogue system'. I suppose this is to chime with the thought that if it's digital it must be good. And then I am reminded of a comment (perhaps by 'Oldudders'?) that semaphore signalling is truly digital, the peg being either 'on' or 'off'. By being discrete rather than continuous, TPWS may perhaps be better described as digital with the continuous ETCS being analogue! I wish people would not use digital when they mean 'software controlled or computer controlled'. The section entitled 'Why ETCS' fails to point out that under EU directives, member states have no choice but to use ETCS when resignalling (even if choosing ETCS is a logical thing to do). Worth a read. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 It was Oldudders here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134338-digitising”-the-signalling-system/?p=3174084 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) I wish people would not use digital when they mean 'software controlled or computer controlled'. Isn't that the very definition of digital? A system that uses digital processing (ie some sort of software running on some sort of processing platform) to perform a task. Edited November 20, 2018 by DY444 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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