Owd Bob Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Just going through my old pics' as i'm transforming and detailing my 'O' gauge Heljen class 25 into 25 235 complete with the Red beams and silver buff heads, funny how the number was all squashed up with no gaps either between the 25 and 235. I always wondered why or for what reason the 'Rat' was tarted up? If anyone has any ideas please let me know as to why. I also see after some 'Googling' that this loco is now preserved which pleases me now no end! Photos taken at SP on 15th Nov' 1981. The loco' then hung in and around the Springs branch depot and Wigan area for a few weeks after first seeing it, and it became one of my fave 25's Sorry about the poor quality as is with all my old pics' the colours are fading fast. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2018 Detail painting like that would often be done for either Royal Train duty or for a depot open day appearance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I would have said some sort of royal train duty as it wasn't named and 1981 was a busy year for royals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Bob 25235 is under restoration at Boness it was once a regular performer but issues with wheelsets meant it could no longer run it is now going through the workshops progress can be seen here https://realrail.smugmug.com/Trains/25235-Restoration-at-Boness/ Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 If it had worked the Royal train in service, there would be holes in the lower cab front for the communication wire to the train. I suggest more likely it's a tart up for a depot open day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick G Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 An 'E' exam was undertaken at Toton in November 1981 maybe it was done then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd Bob Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Thanks Chaps! All very good and feasible answers, i have to say i don't remember any open days around that time especially being so late on in the year, and the paint was really clean and fresh, i'm now wondering if it was ever used on a railtour? Whatever it was for it really stood out and made a nice change at the time from all the other numerous boring and seemingly endless amounts of 25's i was used to seeing around the North West back then. Dave' many thanks for the excellent link, it's really great to see it getting its new tyres and hopefully it'll be back up and running again this year? I'm hoping to keep a watch on it from now on. Edited January 1, 2018 by Owd Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2018 had a look on derbysulzers.com and the only mention relevant to Nov.1981 was the info Nick G already posted. http://www.derbysulzers.com/25235.html also looked at early-1982 Railway Observers but nothing mentioned (Jan/Feb issues cover Nov. 1981, due to usual delay in publishing info) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Bob That's no problem Boness usually have a winter diesel gala on or about the 28th or 29th of December gives you a year to plan a trip there if you are far away there may also be a summer gala keep an on srpsdiesel.co.uk or follow them on twitter or Facebook should keep you up to date on progress also see link below for six bells junction it lists all the railtours and locos which worked them the further back you go the less complete the records so it may not always which loco has worked a tour http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/ht1981.htm Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiDAS Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 If it had worked the Royal train in service, there would be holes in the lower cab front for the communication wire to the train. I suggest more likely it's a tart up for a depot open day. Not if it had only been used for carriage heating if that was still extant on this loco. The royal carriage heating loco would also be tarted up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2018 Not if it had only been used for carriage heating if that was still extant on this loco. The royal carriage heating loco would also be tarted up And also the reserve loco(s) would have been tarted up. Depending on who was travelling and how far, dictated the number of locos required. I recall the Queen travelling once which was train loco, spare following, plus two more startegically located en-route, plus fully manned breakdown train cover whilst in the division. I presume Bristol BT was manned as she approached their division too. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 All Can't find any evidence that 25235 was used at an open day or royal train it may have been an Eastfield depot spruce up to was around this time that they started putting the now legendary Scottie/Westie dog emblems on class 37s Also the reason i think that the numbers appear squashed is St Rollox/Glasgow Works applied larger numbers to overhauled locos can't remember the exact started but think it was 6 inches Glasgow works used 8 inch numbers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 There may be a simpler explanation! It may have been that someone on nights or at the weekend was a bit bored and enjoyed doing a bit of tarting up. I did just that at marylebone diesel depot - several class 115 DMUs in NSE livery gained red bufferbeams, silver buffers etc, the only reason was because i could. my colleague went a bit too far though, one power car in NSE livery gained speed whiskers overnight, he got the proverbial rocket and they were painted out in a few days - there is a picture somewhere, cause no one belives it ever happened! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2018 Not if it had only been used for carriage heating if that was still extant on this loco. The royal carriage heating loco would also be tarted up I think that is increasingly unlikely by 1981 - the Royal Train had moved onto Mk3 coaching stock with electric train heating for the Silver Jubilee in 1977. The class 25's time on Royal Train service was in the middle 1970s, and I don't think it was normal practice to paint the buffer beams on 25s red as part of the tart-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 There may be a simpler explanation! It may have been that someone on nights or at the weekend was a bit bored and enjoyed doing a bit of tarting up. I did just that at marylebone diesel depot - several class 115 DMUs in NSE livery gained red bufferbeams, silver buffers etc, the only reason was because i could. my colleague went a bit too far though, one power car in NSE livery gained speed whiskers overnight, he got the proverbial rocket and they were painted out in a few days - there is a picture somewhere, cause no one belives it ever happened! Is this one of yours? https://www.flickr.com/photos/16867856@N07/24699087780/in/photolist-DCzhi3-kkzXQZ-bx1Y2j-qR5USR-a2MxaN-d5fdQL-Vpk3Uk-aEiP7k-8c8M3C-6xUoRP-cgVQgw-qCfSFX-oExLat-Xd8b1r-p7RyvT-bD7Knq-85DYYr-awW1Tv-qyEoiA-oysDxQ-pcJX1w-h5EntN-8sTg7T-eUnkRH-pQcfwq-6Q7GFw-bZz5K1-aycZSt-d4hzoS-C5vNYD-92t4ZV-d3fZLu-95Dif5-nCExAL-bZz9Bf-fSk7rw-qL2j8d-SK6kjJ-7FwbWN-aWa95F-knvQhD-bZz9cL-CDkv3g-fNKqzk-qRnvg8-XcQ9mE-nURCRt-nVnux1-BFXwBk-djBnHz cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) There may be a simpler explanation! It may have been that someone on nights or at the weekend was a bit bored and enjoyed doing a bit of tarting up. A remakable amount of this went on towards the end of BR, especially after the likes of Stratford's silver roofs and Union Jacks were officially sanctioned (or at least not officially stopped). Tinsley's painted nameplates for example. It wasn't always boredom or entirely unofficial either. The reason the S&C signal boxes are maroon and cream to this day is because the RRNE Line Manager at Appleby thought the official RRNE colour palette looked crap and asked the Works Supervisor across the yard to ignore it. Edited January 4, 2018 by Wheatley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 In a similar vein, I recall reading that Peter Parker visited Finsbury Park depot at the time their Deltics were given white cabs. Nothing was said, no complaints were raised and thus it became seen as officially sanctioned... That's how the story went anyway. Bob cracking pictures there, used to linger round Springs Branch at that time. I think by then, the old steam shed had been fenced off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd Bob Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) In a similar vein, I recall reading that Peter Parker visited Finsbury Park depot at the time their Deltics were given white cabs. Nothing was said, no complaints were raised and thus it became seen as officially sanctioned... That's how the story went anyway. Bob cracking pictures there, used to linger round Springs Branch at that time. I think by then, the old steam shed had been fenced off. We started as teenagers waggin' schoo' in the mid' 1970's, and we cycled the 7 miles to SP depot to hide and hang out from the truant officers, there was always a empty brake van or two on Ince Moss we could hide in for the day, and brew up in! Most of my first 'SP' pics' come from the 1978-79 era, the shed was still open then but all my negs from then are on 110 cassette film! Looks like i need a 110 slider thingy to fit in my cheap Aldi scanner now! I loved it when stuff started to be tarted up and it was a welcome move from the always filthy looking Blue & Yellow, i think my fave colours were the White window framed Deltics, the Stratford 47 White roofs and Red buff era, & then the Scottish large logo' 37's Basically anything was better than the dull miserable looking Blue.....or so we thought at the time! I've noticed a small round plate on a lot of the class 25's bang in the lower middle of the cab front,....is this where the cable would come through for Royal Trains? Found these two yesterday. Edited January 6, 2018 by Owd Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted January 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2018 I think that is increasingly unlikely by 1981 - the Royal Train had moved onto Mk3 coaching stock with electric train heating for the Silver Jubilee in 1977. The class 25's time on Royal Train service was in the middle 1970s, and I don't think it was normal practice to paint the buffer beams on 25s red as part of the tart-up. They were still in use in late 1982, see half way down this page... http://www.derbysulzers.com/25259.html Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2018 the post-1977 Royal train was ETH but this would be supplied by the power brake coach, 2905 (ex-W14105), a mk2b BFK with a diesel generator in the brake van - certainly for the full train, which I suspect would be too power hungry for most locos. I presume the loco ETH would be a back-up, but given the amount of heating/ventilation/comms/security eqpt. etc. it was probably preferable to have independent, monitored power available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2018 They were still in use in late 1982, see half way down this page... http://www.derbysulzers.com/25259.html Dave Yes indeed, nicely illustrating the communication cord hole, which 25235 did not have. Either way a 25 would not be heating the royal train post-1977, which was a reason being postulated for it being billed up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 25239 and 25244 were also like this when ED allocated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd Bob Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Cheers Brian! Great pics' showing there was nowt special about it at all back then....just one of many. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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