Cobalt SS Point Motors

[Londoner]

Hi,

 

I've bought three packs of these items for use on 'OO' gauge trackwork, and, in theory, they're very good. Small, with two independently controlled, surface mounted stepper motors and DCC control board. Everything powered from the DCC bus and addressed with specific addresses, the setup of which is straightforward. (I'm using ECoS).

 

However, the two motors of the first pack were faulty, they simply didn't work.

 

The motors of the second pack, in spite of supposedly being suitable for 'N', 'OO' or 'O' gauge, didn't have the travel to fully normalise and/or reverse the points, even when set to the largest of the three travel ranges. (The points are standard Marcway single turnouts and S/Slip). They also seemed to be marginal in power relative to the tie bar resistance.

 

Has anyone else used these? How did you find them? Perhaps I'm just unlucky with the individual units I've bought. Snag is, they're quite pricey, approx. £48 for a two motor pack.

 

Regards,

 

Eric.

[Irishrailwaymodeller]

Usually the retailer is the first point of contact for any faulty goods. Did you remove any springs in the turnouts as slo-mo motors can find difficulty overcoming their resistance?

[Londoner]

Usually the retailer is the first point of contact for any faulty goods. Did you remove any springs in the turnouts as slo-mo motors can find difficulty overcoming their resistance?

I bought the first set on e-Bay but didn't use them for ages, so I haven't gone back to them. The second two packs I bought from Hattons, and I haven't been back to them yet.

 

I tried them on Marcway points, which aren't spring biased.

[tender]

If they are not travelling the full range on maximum throw try resetting them by pressing the reset buttons for a few seconds. I'd disconnect them from the turnout when you do this so as not to restrict it.

 

I did find the tiny connectors for the motors didn't make a good contact at first, they need a firm push into the socket.

[PaulRhB]

I've used five and I can see why you might have trouble with copperclad points as they are usually stiffer than Peco.

I don't solder the blades direct to the tiebar but pass a flat head brass pin up through the tiebar, bend it over 90° and solder to the blade. It makes it much less stiff and no risk of the solder joint cracking with fatigue.

Overall they were easy to set up but they do have a tendency to stick occasionally if not used for a while, a quick wiggle of the link solves that. They also seem to go to sleep on dcc if not changed for a while and require a double command to 'wake' them up. Not a problem in my Freemoo9 setup as time isn't an issue but would be a pain on a show layout.

I'll continue to use the ip motor unless space is really tight.

[john dew]

Have you maximised the length and power of throw?

 

I found that locating the sweet spot in for positioning the motor in order to throw the blade was quite fiddely .....I had to make numerous attempts with one of my pair.

 

I have also experienced the tendency for the unit to go to sleep that Paul mentioned.  It isnt a problem right now if it is just confined to start up but I have yet to determine how long the period of inactivity is before a double command is required. I am going to email DCC Concepts about it.

 

Regards

 

John

[PaulRhB]

Seems to be about 20-30 minutes which is a bit too quick. I had to wake one on a siding I didn't use much three times in 6 hours at the WNGRM open day.

Been meaning to drop them an email to see if they can sort it for future ones but they have been a lot less finicky on a portable layout than the minx ones I tried.

[john dew]

Seems to be about 20-30 minutes which is a bit too quick. I had to wake one on a siding I didn't use much three times in 6 hours at the WNGRM open day.

Been meaning to drop them an email to see if they can sort it for future ones but they have been a lot less finicky on a portable layout than the minx ones I tried.

 

Hi Paul

 

I got this reply from DCC Concepts

 

We have recently found that there is an issue after powering down if they are set to CCW. The problem has been resolved in software and the current units cannot easily be reprogrammed. The next production batch will have the amended software.

 

The immediate fix is to run with the switch set to CW and use the reverse extension as supplied with the motors and control board.

If you do not have enough reverse connectors, we will send one out to you.

 

The fix worked .....there is now no memory loss on one of the motors.Hopefully another reverse extension is on its way to Canada!

 

Kind Regards

 

John

[Londoner]

I've given up with these things. If anyone wants the parts, let me know & I'll post them to you.

 

Eric.

[ColHut]

Hi Paul

 

I got this reply from DCC Concepts

 

We have recently found that there is an issue after powering down if they are set to CCW. The problem has been resolved in software and the current units cannot easily be reprogrammed. The next production batch will have the amended software.

 

The immediate fix is to run with the switch set to CW and use the reverse extension as supplied with the motors and control board.

If you do not have enough reverse connectors, we will send one out to you.

 

The fix worked .....there is now no memory loss on one of the motors.Hopefully another reverse extension is on its way to Canada!

 

Kind Regards

 

John

I wish I had seen this earlier...

 

Do yours sometimes get very hot?

 

regards

Edited March 25, 2018 by ColHut

[john dew]

I wish I had seen this earlier...

Do yours sometimes get very hot?

regards

Sorry you missed the earlier post.....I found it very frustrating!

 

Since the problem got sorted there hasnt been much running activity in that area........I will watch out for overheating and let you know.

 

Regards

 

John

[tender]

I wish I had seen this earlier...

 

Do yours sometimes get very hot?

 

regards

I have three units with six motors at the throat of a station complex (courtesy of Londoner) and none of them get hot even when being exercised quite regularly under TrainController.

I’ve not had any problems setting them up or running with them since setting all of them to CW operation as suggested above.

Edited March 25, 2018 by tender

[Irishrailwaymodeller]

I bought 4 of these units from Hattons recently and only 2 worked satisfactorily. I am awaiting replacements from Hattons who are out of stock. 

[The Great Bear]

On 25/03/2018 at 18:06, john dew said:

Sorry you missed the earlier post.....I found it very frustrating!

 

Since the problem got sorted there hasnt been much running activity in that area........I will watch out for overheating and let you know.

 

Regards

 

John

Hi John

 

How did you get on with these in the end? I'm considering using them to ease access and maybe ease reconfiguration of my fiddle yard.

 

All the best

 

Jon

[john dew]

1 hour ago, The Great Bear said:

Hi John

 

How did you get on with these in the end? I'm considering using them to ease access and maybe ease reconfiguration of my fiddle yard.

 

All the best

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon

 

I guess my experience would best be described as a qualified ok. I havent noticed any overheating and the two on shed cope pretty well with a lot of traffic

 

They are very fiddly and time consuming to setup. The positioning of the unit is super critical and even when they have been running for a while they somtimes need the throw re-adjusting. I wonder if, like the tortoise, the throw arm should be stronger and more rigid.

 

Having said that they are the best surface mount option I have found where space is  limited particularly with the DC Concepts ADSFX decoder and polarity. Decoder being unavailable for so long

 

HTH

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

I have given up on mine, which is a real pity, and expensive. As said above, they were very fiddly to set up and then i found, over time, I kept having to adjust them, which just was  not what I wanted. If I had time for an hours running, I didn’t want to spend half of that getting one or more to work. 

 

I have now gone for the servo and wire in tube approach and will ebay the motors. 

 

Roy

[The Great Bear]

John and Roy  - thank you for sharing your experience with the Cobalt SS: seems a mixed bag which is a shame.

 

I can't remember whether I removed the springs from the Peco points, I'm away from layout at moment. That may have a bearing on choices.

[RodneyV]

Hi All,

 

I ordered the Cobalt SS Point Motors before I read this thread.

Could be interesting to see how they go!

They will be used in an area with no space available below the points and only the height of an engine above.

 

I will report back. Hopefully with no frustration.

 

 

 

 

[Billy Boy]

Having just taken an enormous amount time to install 8 of these motors to my modest 009 layout, I would like to share these nuggets of wisdom (if I can boldly claim that....) :-

 

1.  The motors mounted straight on the board alongside 009 set track points do not work.  The height of the connecting rod you need to use between the point and the motor means that any passing locomotive or rolling stock derails.  I have had to tweak the connecting rod for each point so that they do not foul the trains;

 

2.  On each motor, before installation, I have had to set the motor to its fullest setting (XL) on the control board.  This is to ensure that the point is mounted the further position away from the point itself, again to stop the above derailments from happening.  I then reduced the size of the point throw to "Medium" accordingly, which is more than enough for my points;

 

3.  One motor, after using it successfully for two weeks, decided (seemingly) to give up completely.  It was only when I was fiddling around with the connections that I realised that the extension lead was faulty.  Henceforth, if you are not connecting the motor directly into the control board, check the cabling;

 

4.  Installation is fiddly and time consuming.  It can take a good 1-2 hours just to install one motor successfully;

 

5.  Having removed the point springs to assist in the free movement of the track, I realised that needed to reposition a couple of the motors again so that the point fully switched.  Not having DCC on this layout meant that not all tracks are "live."  This is an issue when you are relying on the electrical connectivity of the point.  This has led me to introduce further wiring to connect up those lines where point connectivity is not the best;

 

6.  They are very noisy when in operation.  This suprised me, as I thought that the days of points and their motors clacking were gone, as I had opted for a supposed upgrade on the usual point motors available.

 

In conclusion - having had experience with other makes of point motor, I won't be rushing out to buy any more Colbalts SS.  However having said that, I am yet to use the system over a lengthy period of time.  However, if current experience is to go by, things don't look good..........

 

 

[RodneyV]

Hi Billy Boy,

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Years ago I bought a batch of the first generation of Cobalts and they weren't very good and I sold all of them.

Hopefully that won't happen with this product. I'm a bit nervous now.

 

On Ebay, I found some Stepper Motors with 10mm of travel.

When they arrive, I will try them out. Maybe they are a better motor than these ones.

On a positive note, the presentation of the product and the bits in the box is sensational.

From a marketing and product development viewpoint DCC Concepts are rattling the cage.

 

 

 

[Old Niclk]

To all the people who who have commented on this topic, especially with problems, my recent experience with a complex application may be useful.

Used as directed by DCC concepts using their supplied bits and pieces they are not too bad. The following though should be noted.

The instructions describe how to perform a 'reset' but do not clearly state when/if  this should be done. In practice it is essential that it is the first thing you do when you have got it basically wired up and before  you connect it physically to the point and adjust it. The intention may have been that the point motor was in the default position fresh out of the box - in fact this is rarely true.

These small stepper motors have very little torque and can not deal with any excess friction so be careful how you set them up. Trying to push a limit switch for instance is not recommended.

The adjustment for the throw although indicated as four distinct setting is actually a continuous adjustment so you can fine tune it. Be aware that the way this works is to vary a timer in the control box which determines how long the motor should operate for. There is no electronic feedback to tell the controller the motor has reached the end of its travel. If it is forced to stop moving (for any reason including friction) before the controller expects it to it will become out of adjustment and will probably not work properly again until another 'reset' is performed and you re-adjust. Also if you are driving two or more motors with one control channel then their linkages must be identical, particularly where there is any slack. Mixing point manufacturers would be very unwise.

Now we come to the issue where I maintain there is a design flaw. In my conversations with DCC Concepts they have not admitted it as such but they are aware that the limitation is present and they have their own suggested work-around. The actual drive pin on the motor in which you hook the linkage wire is driven by a threaded rod and as you can see the thrust is taken off to one side rather than in-line. This means that any slight tendency for the linkage to exert pressure or a twisting moment at this point will cause the mechanism to bind and the previously mentioned  low torque situation means that it will refuse to move and you are scuppered.

The way they overcome this (without explaining it) is that their supplied linkage wires are thin enough and shaped so that they have some inbuilt flexibility which is intended to eliminate any such 'twisting' force. If, because of the geometry you need to fabricate your own linkage this must be replicated somehow. They use 0.3mm wire inside PTFE tubing for special longer runs of linkage and claim it works - I have yet to try it but plan to.

[Barnaby]

Old Nic as you have not returned here with any update can we assume everything is now tickety-boo.

 

I've got a situation where the SS motors will be a useful fix.

 

Best

[Derekl]

I have also just bought a pile of these for use in the fiddle yard, yet to appear. I did so because I preferred the idea of working above the board where I could rather than below.

 

I have a number of the Cobalt IP digital motors under the station (mostly constructed) and found them relatively easy to fit and they work reliably, so far (but that is not a lot). Working under the board (it is fixed and permanent) I find a lot less easy than I did 50 years ago, but I suppose that is hardly surprising.

 

When I can find some track to lay in the fiddle yard, I will let you know how I get on.

[Mick Bonwick]

If you have a few moments to spare, there is a story here that is partly about these motors:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151137-easton-isle-of-portland/page/17/

 

You will have to be prepared to read a load of other stuff as well (!) but there may be some helpful information, nonetheless.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Mick Bonwick
Some letters in the wrong words.

[cga]

I have struggled for several years to get these SS motors working consistently.  They lose their programming even on CW.  Resetting does not move the actuating arm to a consistent position - easy to see if you reset a motor three times and take note of where the actuating arm stops.  Apparently it depends on what throw is set.  DCC acknowledge that this is the case but whether it has been rectified I don't know.

 

If the gremlins are really excited when you try to operate the motor it will move forward briefly and then reverse achieving absolutely nothing.

 

Using the controller to change the frog polarity creates a short circuit because the polarity change occurs too soon, i.e. before the pointblades have moved the full distance, and in any case they only move the full distance if the gremlins are asleep.

 

And as for being silent, I have to disagree most strongly.

 

A lot of promise but also a lot of disappointment.

 

Mike