Black Notley - BR Eastern

[boeing757]

It's gone far too quiet on this thread so I'll ask question which will ensure the thread comes back over the horizonat the very least. My layout at Felsted can stand the odd trip from Braintree by diesel 0-6-0 shunter normally stationed in the yard there, perhaps on an additional sugar beet train. Can anyone identify a loco that could have done this; or better still post or point to a photo of a Braintree shunter.

Thanks,

B

[pwr]

It's gone far too quiet on this thread so I'll ask question which will ensure the thread comes back over the horizonat the very least. My layout at Felsted can stand the odd trip from Braintree by diesel 0-6-0 shunter normally stationed in the yard there, perhaps on an additional sugar beet train. Can anyone identify a loco that could have done this; or better still post or point to a photo of a Braintree shunter.

Thanks,

B

 

According to Peter Payes Book most of the traffic for the sugar beet works ran from Bishops Stortford - this would have changed once it was severed as a through route. There is a good picture of a WD 2-8-0 no 90480 returning from Felstead to Braintree and beyond with a train of sugar beet pulp. Details of workings after the line was severed are not covered in any detail so I can't really help. I do beleive that coal went in this way and I remember as a young lad seeing lines of 4w vans in sidings when we drove past one day.

 

Sorry not much help realy

 

Paul R

[boeing757]

Yes, I have the Payes book and am familiar with the WD picture.

When I was a schoolboy at Braintree High School I often used to venture down to Rose Hill and watch the 0-6-0 diesel shunter in the yard. I am now building a model but need an identity of one of the locos that worked there as apart from underlining in the Ian Allan I kept no records. Any help appreciated.

Additionally, I remember wagons at Felsted for the conveyance of lime rock. They were an open framework with 4 I think transverse "buckets" which were lifted by the resident Taylor Hubbard steam crane by means of a trapeze like fitting. I can find no info about these wagons at all, any help appreciated.

[pwr]

Yes, I have the Payes book and am familiar with the WD picture.

When I was a schoolboy at Braintree High School I often used to venture down to Rose Hill and watch the 0-6-0 diesel shunter in the yard. I am now building a model but need an identity of one of the locos that worked there as apart from underlining in the Ian Allan I kept no records. Any help appreciated.

Additionally, I remember wagons at Felsted for the conveyance of lime rock. They were an open framework with 4 I think transverse "buckets" which were lifted by the resident Taylor Hubbard steam crane by means of a trapeze like fitting. I can find no info about these wagons at all, any help appreciated.

 

 

Which period are you modelling. I had thought that the normal 16t mineral steel bodied mineral wagns were used for both coal and beet but I doubt that limestone would have come in this way. Are you a member of the GER society. If so you could pose the question on their Yahoo Group. If not I can do it for you.

 

Paul R

[boeing757]

Which period are you modelling. I had thought that the normal 16t mineral steel bodied mineral wagns were used for both coal and beet but I doubt that limestone would have come in this way. Are you a member of the GER society. If so you could pose the question on their Yahoo Group. If not I can do it for you.

 

Paul R

 

Hi Paul,

I am modelling c1956. The lime rock as it was known definitely came in in wagons as I have described. I used to watch the BSC crane lift the buckets off the wagon with a trapeze like beam and then the shunter would trip a catch with a shunting pole and the bucket would tip over and discharge the lime rock, one of the cranes is pictured in the background of Payes book on page48. In fact you can also see the lime rock pile behind the coal on the right. Please take it up with the GERS, I am not a member and feel my period of interest falls outside their remit.

Thanks as ever

[pwr]

Hi Paul,

I am modelling c1956. The lime rock as it was known definitely came in in wagons as I have described. I used to watch the BSC crane lift the buckets off the wagon with a trapeze like beam and then the shunter would trip a catch with a shunting pole and the bucket would tip over and discharge the lime rock, one of the cranes is pictured in the background of Payes book on page48. In fact you can also see the lime rock pile behind the coal on the right. Please take it up with the GERS, I am not a member and feel my period of interest falls outside their remit.

Thanks as ever

 

Boeing

 

I have posed the question! The society covers any period up to and including present day. I have posed many questions myself and been surprised by the knowledge of other Group members. You would be advised to join up as there is a very good journal published each quarter as well as a glossy newsletter.www.gersociety.org.uk if you want to check them out.

 

regards

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Boeing

 

These are some of the replies so far

 

Peter Paye's The Bishops Stortford Dunmow & Braintree Branch, OPC, 1981 answers some of these questions.

There were two BSC shunters in 1952. One was an 0-4-0ST by Andrew Barclay (1886 of 1926) and the other a Ruston & Hornsby diesel shunter.

The steam loco is seen shunting unfitted steel 16T mineral wagons in one picture. There is a conventional road crane in the back ground fitted with a two-jaw grab.

There are no pictures of the container vehicles that you describe. 12T vans are often in the freight train and a six-wheeled "passenger brake van" usually is. Other trains include five-plank opens, a horse box and two conflats with containers.

Locos seen on freight work - some mention sugar beet traffic include: J-17 65519, J-17 65508, WD 2-8-0 90480 (includes unfitted wooden seven-plank open & some sort of out-of-the-ordinary steel mineral wagon in the train of sugar beet pulp), J-17 65564, J-7 65531, J-17 65536

 

 

It sounds like these were conflat L wagons which carried three containers. Their design and use is covered in 'The 4mm Wagon Part 3' by Geoff Kent, 1 874103 97 6, Wild Swan 2004. I have notes of these wagons being seen at Whitemoor in the 1950's, but no knowledge of their destination(s) when loaded.see also Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1599856.html

 

 

Also British Railways Wagons - the first half million, Don Rowland, D&C 1985 and Wagons of the Middle British Railways Era - a pictorial study of the 1955-1961 period, David Larkin, Kestrel 2007.

 

I don't have the latter book so I can't check but if you look at the web site mentioned above you will be able to assess if this is the wagon type mentioned

 

 

Paul R

[Calimero]

From what I know Conflats were run over the route and there is a photo somewhere of a test train of Conflat type vehicles behind a 31.

 

Banana traffic ran as far as Easton Lodge for Fyfes/Geests warehouse and this was really the only regular freight at the end, prior to that was the beet for Felstead which had a big plant (I believe it wa recent they knocked it down) and general freight

 

When I went to work for BR at Stratford we ran up to Braintree with units, this would make a good layout especially if you ran over length trains as we used to so 8-Car 312s and 321s on short platforms and at Braintree you had to walk down the track to get into the cab.

 

Chatting with some older Drivers they used to work to Braintree with UKF fertilizer trains, formed of the vans like LIMA produced probably behind 31s.

 

 

[hmrspaul]

Boeing

 

 

It sounds like these were conflat L wagons which carried three containers. Their design and use is covered in 'The 4mm Wagon Part 3' by Geoff Kent, 1 874103 97 6, Wild Swan 2004. I have notes of these wagons being seen at Whitemoor in the 1950's, but no knowledge of their destination(s) when loaded.see also Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1599856.html

 

Paul R

 

I disagree. These sound like the LMS Roadstone wagons, of which there were 101 built in 1946-8. See pages 175 - 6 in Essery, R, J, (1981) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 1, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 127 7. viii + 180 pages (which is back in print).

 

Paul

York

[boeing757]

Boeing

 

These are some of the replies so far

 

Peter Paye's The Bishops Stortford Dunmow & Braintree Branch, OPC, 1981 answers some of these questions.

There were two BSC shunters in 1952. One was an 0-4-0ST by Andrew Barclay (1886 of 1926) and the other a Ruston & Hornsby diesel shunter.

The steam loco is seen shunting unfitted steel 16T mineral wagons in one picture. There is a conventional road crane in the back ground fitted with a two-jaw grab.

There are no pictures of the container vehicles that you describe. 12T vans are often in the freight train and a six-wheeled "passenger brake van" usually is. Other trains include five-plank opens, a horse box and two conflats with containers.

Locos seen on freight work - some mention sugar beet traffic include: J-17 65519, J-17 65508, WD 2-8-0 90480 (includes unfitted wooden seven-plank open & some sort of out-of-the-ordinary steel mineral wagon in the train of sugar beet pulp), J-17 65564, J-7 65531, J-17 65536

 

 

It sounds like these were conflat L wagons which carried three containers. Their design and use is covered in 'The 4mm Wagon Part 3' by Geoff Kent, 1 874103 97 6, Wild Swan 2004. I have notes of these wagons being seen at Whitemoor in the 1950's, but no knowledge of their destination(s) when loaded.see also Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

http://gallery6801.f...t/c1599856.html

 

 

Also British Railways Wagons - the first half million, Don Rowland, D&C 1985 and Wagons of the Middle British Railways Era - a pictorial study of the 1955-1961 period, David Larkin, Kestrel 2007.

 

I don't have the latter book so I can't check but if you look at the web site mentioned above you will be able to assess if this is the wagon type mentioned

 

 

Paul R

 

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your efforts on my behalf, I will respond to each point.

I am familiar with both the steam and diesel shunters at BSC, in fact I have had footplate rides on both. The crane you mention was one of two, one larger than the other but both Taylor Hubbard. They normally had the conventional bucket fitted but for the lime stone they were fitted with a spacer bar like a trapeze, obviously slightly wider than the wagon bucket.These were lifted and then tripped by the shunter with a pole and the bucket then rolled through 180 degrees and dumped the contents.

I'm sorry but although it's a while ago, the wagons were definitely not Conflats.

I think the WD must have been a rare visitor, I never saw one and I did spend an aweful amount of time around the station, incidentally the steel mineral you mention is ex French Railways. As well as the J17s the J19 was a common sight, again I was lucky to ride on both types.

Thanks again, when are we going to see some more of Black Notley?

Bob

[boeing757]

I disagree. These sound like the LMS Roadstone wagons, of which there were 101 built in 1946-8. See pages 175 - 6 in Essery, R, J, (1981) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 1, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 127 7. viii + 180 pages (which is back in print).

 

Paul

York

 

Thank you Paul, I think you may have solved it for me. Funnily enough I had a gut feeling the wagons were 'foreigners'. I don't have the reference you quote (yet) is there a drawing as well?

[pwr]

 

Thanks again, when are we going to see some more of Black Notley?

Bob

 

Hi Bob

 

Progress a bit slow I am afraid. I have been doing some ballasting of the next board and I am about half way through. Will post some photos when complete

 

Paul R

[bike2steam]

I tend to agree that WD's were rare on the BS to Braintree branch, most freight work being covered by J17's. J15's (along with F6's) were common on the mixed trains ( 1 passenger coach + a couple of vans, one of which was very occasionally an 'interfrigo') usually Braintree to Witham, with the train engine employed on shunting at Braintree between duties.

[pwr]

I tend to agree that WD's were rare on the BS to Braintree branch, most freight work being covered by J17's. J15's (along with F6's) were common on the mixed trains ( 1 passenger coach + a couple of vans, one of which was very occasionally an 'interfrigo') usually Braintree to Witham, with the train engine employed on shunting at Braintree between duties.

 

Paul

 

I have long been trying to find out what these Interfrigo's were used for on the Braintree Line. I have a book called Essex and Suffolk Branch Line Steam (probably long out of print) and it has two views of a 2 coach train at Braintree facing Witham with one of these vans behind the loco. One hauled by a J15 and one by an F6. Enquiries of the GER Society have revealed nothing so any help appreciated.

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Notley Update - Progress on Board 3 ballasting has slowed as I start to build the platforms. The faces are foamboard and I am going to use Prototype Models 7mm brickpaper (Red Brick). Once these are installed I can ballast up to the platform faces.

 

In the meantime I have a photo of Cressing taken in 2009. This is the basis of Black Notley and I have conveniently a plan albeit 4mm in John Brodribb's book on LNER Country Stations. I will take this to work and blow it up on the photocopier and probably cut this out as the template. Foamboard will be used as the basic shell.The station has changed out of all recognition since the line was modernised and I will have to backdate it!

 

 

All for now

 

Paul R

[pwr]

At long last more progress to report. I have installed the platform faces on Board 3 and finished the ballasting on that board. Here are some photos.

 

 

You can see the foamboard sides of the platforms in this view.

 

 

 

You can see the brick facing here from Prototype models. I think it is too glossy and will probably give it a spray over with Matt Varnish

 

 

 

The Claude is an SM models kit which was not easy to build since it had a number of fundamental errors in the chassis. The coach is from Meteor Models.

 

Now to Board 4

 

Paul R

[signalmaintainer]

Looking superb!

[CUTLER2579]

Hello Paul,

very pleasing and very encouraging.

Regards.

[Guest jonte]

Hello again Paul.

 

Coming along nicely and at risk of repeating myself: I still cannot believe that's Peco trackwork.

 

Jonte

[CUTLER2579]

Hi Paul,

I do agree with Jonte's last remark and if I can get my Peco Track looking half as good I will be a very happy Bunny.

Kind Regards,Derek.

[pwr]

Thank you all for your kind words.

 

Progress on the next board has been much quicker and I may have it finished by tomorrow.

 

Now back to the ironing!

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Just picked up from the GER e-group that Middleton Press are working on a book entitled Branch Lines Around Witham which will be essential reading!

 

I am hoping that new pictures will emerge from this that have not been publsihed before. Don't know if this covers the Braintree to Bishops Stortford section yet but we can live in hope.

 

Events have transpired to get in the way of Sunday finish for the latest board but hopefuly by hte end of the week.

 

Paul R

[boeing757]

It really would be nice to see some previously unpublished views of this line. As an aside, does anyone have any details/drawings/ photos of the guard operated steps on ex GER stock used on this branch?

[Skaran]

I remember travelling on the train from Witham to Braintree many years ago - some sort of Green railcar I think (it was in 1971). I used to live at Silver End which is about 10,000 miles or so from where I am now.

 

Really looking forward to see how your layout progresses.

[pwr]

Some more photos now I have almost finsihed ballasting.

 

 

This one shows my trusty 04 doing a spot of shunting

 

 

This one shows the DMU arriving from Witham. I eally must get round to changing the destinaation blind. You can see the start of platform construction with this one.

 

 

 

 

This one shows that I haven't got that much left to ballast. The board at the end shows the level crossing area.

 

 

 

This is a view from the other direction.

 

I have to say that I am surprised how far the bag of ballast went. I managed to do the whole layout on one bag up to the middle of board 4. I will have enough after all.

 

Making the crossing will be a challenge as I am not sure what material to use for the road surface. I am minded to use DAZ modelling clay - any thoughts?

 

The decision to use brick papers on the platform edge is not one I am entirely comfortable with as the paper has stretched on application and some of the courses are bent. I may have to replace it

 

All for now

 

Paul R