Hornby 2018 - the full announcements

[Coryton]

 

I think we've beaten this one to death now.

 

I think this is one of those topics that will never end as long as there are web forums.

 

On the subject of the past and atmosphere, I think it is very easy to look at the past through rose tinted glasses.

 

On the whole if offered the choice of todays railway or the railways from my youth, even though it'd be nice to bring back all those classic locomotive classes I'd take the railway of today every time.

 

I think in many ways the railways have become overall better for passengers (in terms of frequency, information and (in some ways but not others) comfort) as they have become less interesting to many of us here.

 

The good thing for us is that we can check our train times on-line and benefit from frequent services etc. if we travel by train and when we come home we can model whatever time period interests us the most.

 

In some ways I'd like to go back to the railways as they were in the 80's...but I wouldn't want to give up my digital camera and the benefits of real-time information on the move via a smart phone. 

[GreenGiraffe22]

Totally agree and absolutely love today's freight/engineering & passenger scene with the heritage traction mixed with the new with all the different liveries thus for the life of me can't imagine why a youngster would ignore this and go and collect or model trains from the distant past, unless he or she is heavily influenced by an ageing dad or grampa who just can't let go...BR Blue era was the business son, I was shunting in my sleep and forget about today's pussy railways with all those fancy colourful loco's going nowhere (old man voice)

I think we've beaten this one to death now.

Because the "distant past" is historically fascinating. There's something about those years from the late Victorian era up to the 1940s, I duno what it is, but those 70 years or so have captivated me since I was a small boy.

 

Edit: for the record, my eldest grandparent was still only 16 in '43 with no interest in railways, my modelling interests are nout to do with him.

Edited January 12, 2018 by GreenGiraffe22

[Dunsignalling]

Sorry, I think you must of missed my post on #627.

 

Yes the DRS Compass is a tampo printed 'fade' but (underlined and bold), is a three fade tampo change, on a very small area and is rather crude. Thus it just barely works. Of course, my post #627 also mentioned Dapol's superb efforts on the tampo printed green fade on the DRS 68. So there is a technique to the tampo printing which in theory could work. But the tampo could not be effective along the long body of a class 158 or 150/2 or 153. 

 

As for Bachmann's ink jet printing on the 66s. Yes it is superb on the ribs, but notice the body sides where there is fading (66709) is only on a straight side without other doors etc in the way. Getting a consistent fade of the darker blue to lighter blue along the entire body side is a challenge to both the tampo print and ink jetting printing methods. 

 

I would thus suggest, the local lines liveries are not beyond the technology both Hornby and Bachmann have, but the rejects would be high and thus making 4000 units for a main production run is just an order too big. I am sure they would suit a limited edition, but how willing of a premium price are you willing to pay for it? I'd pay up to £1000 for a Wessex Trains 150/2. But for the local lines, not as much. 

You have perhaps identified the crux of why Hornby aren't making modern and/or modern-liveried models of older prototypes with these complex finishes.

 

Hornby have a reputation for high quality paint and printing that they won't want to sully by producing something that isn't up there with the best of what they do now.

 

If they consider it only to be do-able at an extreme price differential over other versions of the same model due to an excessive reject rate, there is a likelihood that sales would be restricted to a dedicated few, such as yourself, and such a product would fall outside their established business model.

 

This leads to two possibilities:

 

a. Hornby is not the producer you need to make what you want, so you should be looking for more specialised, lower volume, potential sources of supply.

 

or

 

b. You need to be patient and wait for the technology to develop further, enabling such liveries to be reproduced within quality control parameters that Hornby can live with.

 

John

Edited January 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[APOLLO]

On the whole if offered the choice of todays railway or the railways from my youth, even though it'd be nice to bring back all those classic locomotive classes I'd take the railway of today every time.

 

I remember commuting Wigan to Liverpool back in 1969/70 attending Riversdale Tech. A 2 car DMU, always packed, standing room only out of Lime Street, sometimes not able to get on and a 30 min wait, all trains were stoppers - a bl**dy awful journey. Today we have (secondhand) 4 car ellectric 319's, 3 trains / hour, one of which is an express - 2 intermediate stops only. Superb

 

In 1971/2 I attended Stretford tech in Manchester (near Man U's ground). That journey was a 6 car DMU Southport - Wigan Wallgate- Salford - Manchester express, nearly always got a seat, the centre cars were unpowered therfore quiet !! A far better journey. Today it's either a nodding donkey or suchlike, total rubbish. Or walk over to North Western station and catch a trans Pennine Express Edinburgh / Glasgow to Manchester Airport Class 350 EMU - takes around 20 mins but always full - standing room only from Wigan and a scrum to get a seat coming home. On this route the old times were definitely better.

 

Thank god that's the only train commuting I ever did. I couldn't wait to finish my apprenticeship and buy a car !!

 

Brit15

[ezza]

I'm going to wade in with my two pennies worth on the whole age argument.

 

I'm 23 and my earliest memories of the mainline railway are Anglia Railways 86's. As a result, I do indeed have a collection of Anglia liveried stock and I feel that there's an element of truth that people model what they remember.

 

But equally, my primary interests and subsequent collections cater for 1980's sectorisation, 1960's green/blue transition (1968-1973) and the GER in all it's Edwardian glory.

 

Why? Because I like them. Simple as.

 

Would I like to see Hornby go further down the pre-grouping route? Of course!

 

But equally am I happy they're doing 50033 in late NSE? Of course!

 

(Incidentally, having emailed Hornby, I've been assured the shade of blue will be more accurate than the photo on their website implies!)

 

With the modern railway lacking that element of... atmosphere... that say, BR had, is it any wonder younger modellers are happy to go with whatever takes their fancy era wise? Especially when it comes to pre-grouping. If you have no ties to an era, why wouldn't the bright colours of pre-1923 appeal?

Absolutely agree. Im youngish and i hate modern railways ,might have something to do with working on the miserable railway where new stations are a bus shelter with nothing pleasing to the eye ,with the constant smell of urine in the morning and the scourge of grafitti everywhere! In modelling pre grouping reigns for me! love railways in there zenith with the beautiful liveries and stunning architecture ,you can eat me if you think i am ever going to spend one penny on anything modern it sucks!BTW the next comment that connects your age with the era you model and holds this to mean that because you 25 you model the modern era i am gonna go mad ,There ought to be a site that caters for misery of modern era modelling, counselling might help a labotamy is what these people need so bloody depressing! There rant over .Regards E

[jjb1970]

Unfortunately the frivolous and needless luxuries which ruin modern trains modern trains (such as corridors, usable toilets, accessibility, crash worthiness, air-con etc) have resulted in a weakening of the gene pool and bred a nation of weak spined whiners. The old ways were best.

[Dunsignalling]

Unfortunately the frivolous and needless luxuries which ruin modern trains modern trains (such as corridors, usable toilets, accessibility, crash worthiness, air-con etc) have resulted in a weakening of the gene pool and bred a nation of weak spined whiners. The old ways were best.

One thing has never changed, though. They still don't like it up 'em.

 

Cpl Punishment

[159220]

Hornby have a reputation for high quality paint and printing that they won't want to sully by producing something that isn't up there with the best of what they do now.

 

 

Now this did make me giggle. Though I totally agree with your point that we are not getting modern liveries, as they are too complex. The idea that Hornby have a reputation of high quality paint jobs is highly amusing.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

First Great Western blue (Mk3, HST power cars, 153) - wrong 

Colas orange (56, 60) - wrong 

Greater Anglia grey (153) - wrong 

Caledonian Sleeper teal (67) - wrong

GBRf blue (66) - wrong 

[Big James]

I’m 28. And tbh I do like the modern railways but they just don’t have the variety like the transition period that I have chosen to model. But I do appreciate a well modelled modern image layout like evard junction. But the pull of the beautiful LSWR and SR locomotives will always win. And BR mixed traffic livery is my favourite livery. I was influenced by my grandad and dad. Plus visits to the bluebell.

 

Big james.

[bart2day]

Not in W H Smith in Swanage. No 2018 catalogues there and staff unaware of offer. I am getting mine from Key Publishing.

Plenty of 2018 catalogues in Londons City Thameslink branch but no Hornby magazine. Makes a mockery of the £9.99 combined offer really,

[bart2day]

Absolutely agree. Im youngish and i hate modern railways ,might have something to do with working on the miserable railway where new stations are a bus shelter with nothing pleasing to the eye ,with the constant smell of urine in the morning and the scourge of grafitti everywhere! In modelling pre grouping reigns for me! love railways in there zenith with the beautiful liveries and stunning architecture ,you can eat me if you think i am ever going to spend one penny on anything modern it sucks!BTW the next comment that connects your age with the era you model and holds this to mean that because you 25 you model the modern era i am gonna go mad ,There ought to be a site that caters for misery of modern era modelling, counselling might help a labotamy is what these people need so bloody depressing! There rant over .Regards E

I think that is incredibly harsh. People model what they like or feel an attraction too. Just because you don't like the modern railway doesn't mean others feel the same way. For example, liveries now are more colourful, some see graffiti as art, increase in the number of services etc. Some see the thrash of a class 319 to be just as thrilling as a BR deltic.

 

In the end I feel that there appears to be enough profit in all eras in order for Hornby to have an announcement which has something for everyone. This means a decent balance between offerings in each era and that is where, in my opinion, Hornby have fallen short this year.

[Bon Accord]

.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Bon Accord

[Ozexpatriate]

... People model what they like or feel an attraction too. Just because you don't like XXXXXXXXX doesn't mean others feel the same way.

(Edited)

 

This is true for all of us.

 

There is a lot of extrapolation of "I'm a sensible person and I like XXXX, so a significant number of other people must like XXXX too."

 

People like to belong to like-minded groups. We are hard-wired that way. It is why clubs exist and why clubs often have friction and break up.

 

What we all have in common here is an interest in model railways, particularly for British examples. We will differ over the particulars of our interest and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Dunsignalling]

Now this did make me giggle. Though I totally agree with your point that we are not getting modern liveries, as they are too complex. The idea that Hornby have a reputation of high quality paint jobs is highly amusing.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

First Great Western blue (Mk3, HST power cars, 153) - wrong 

Colas orange (56, 60) - wrong 

Greater Anglia grey (153) - wrong 

Caledonian Sleeper teal (67) - wrong

GBRf blue (66) - wrong 

Okay, but I was thinking more about surface finish than any discussion of colour veracity.

 

The "modern image" fraternity has earned a reputation for going in with both boots when anything falls short of perfection. Some years back, I remember Bachmann taking so much flak over one iteration of their Class 37 tooling that they reputedly considered making it their final post-steam project.

 

Any reluctance Hornby may have in putting their head on the block with such liveries, as the technology stands, is understandable IMHO.

 

It will be interesting to see what sort of job Bachmann can achieve with the GWT "Bradshaw" livery when and if they attempt it on a 158. AFAIK, it wasn't around when they last produced their old model.

 

John

Edited January 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Bernard Lamb]

Unfortunately the frivolous and needless luxuries which ruin modern trains modern trains (such as corridors, usable toilets, accessibility, crash worthiness, air-con etc) have resulted in a weakening of the gene pool and bred a nation of weak spined whiners. The old ways were best.

 

Quite so.

It started to go down the pan when some lefty social reformer got them to put a roof on the peasant class vehicles.

Bernard

[jjb1970]

The "modern image" fraternity has earned a reputation for going in with both boots when anything falls short of perfection. Some years back, I remember Bachmann taking so much flak over one iteration of their Class 37 tooling that they reputedly considered making it their final post-steam project.

 

 

I vaguely remember things sinking to the level of one magazine claiming that people who bought models which a particular reviewer didn't rate highly would have blood on their hands.

 

There is a tendency for some reviews and comment to go over the top and become rather unpleasant. I'm not saying people should ignore faults and errors or that reviews should go down the everything is marvellous path but you can offer a robust review and be critical without getting personal or being unpleasant about it. A simple acid test is to consider whether people would say the things in face to face conversation if they weren't protected by the anonymity of a keyboard.

[APOLLO]

Quite so.

It started to go down the pan when some lefty social reformer got them to put a roof on the peasant class vehicles.

Bernard

 

There's a new sign for going "down the pan" where the 800's run !!

 

 

Brit15

[ScRSG]

Have to admit by being somewhat baffled by some of Hornby's decisions. They now have obviously got the tooling for, I think, all of the Duchess variations through the various Locomotion, Rails and their own production, and, given the ridiculous ebay prices for Sir William, why have they not done another Duchess or even more than one (46235 aside - which is also sound fitted!)? The retailers would be happy given that they would have something to put on the shelves of their shops. Limited, sold out runs are fine but not if you want the smaller shops to survive, even more so if they do not even get their own pre-order fulfilled. Surely the intention should be to balance supply and demand, not to have it so heavily weighted to demand, hence the ridiculously high "pre-owned" prices.

[The Stationmaster]

Totally agree and absolutely love today's freight/engineering & passenger scene with the heritage traction mixed with the new with all the different liveries thus for the life of me can't imagine why a youngster would ignore this and go and collect or model trains from the distant past, unless he or she is heavily influenced by an ageing dad or grampa who just can't let go...BR Blue era was the business son, I was shunting in my sleep and forget about today's pussy railways with all those fancy colourful loco's going nowhere (old man voice) 

I think we've beaten this one to death now.

 

But you forget that for many observers of today's railway they'd have to go quite a way to see any freight trains let alone two or three every hour and all their passenger trains might well be a single type of unit in the same livery day after day.  Some are luckier than that, some have brand new trains to create a bit of excitement but for, again, for probably the majority the local railway infrastructure will be fairly banal and humdrum.  Visit a preserved railway and things will be rather different - variety of motive power, variety of rolling stock, real wagons (albeit not earning revenue), stations which actually have buildings and might sometimes even have toilets or a refreshment room.

 

Different things appeal to different folk simple as that but I bet most would prefer a bit of variety to go with the modern comforts we all enjoy.

[Invicta]

On the subject of the past and atmosphere, I think it is very easy to look at the past through rose tinted glasses.

 

I grew up in the BR blue era going into sectorisation and there was a lot to like about the railways of that era. Plenty of locomotives (both in terms of numbers and variety), you could visit depots and stabling points and see more locomotives than you could shake a stick at, trains travelled far and wide, there were all sorts of cross country routes (I remember trains like the European) and the freight scene was more interesting.

 

On the other hand services were less frequent than they are now, many trains were a bit shabby, almost half of each typical coach was like a mobile ashtray, intercity 70 seats in the later Mk.2 and Mk.3 coaches were dire. There wasn't the sort of real time train information we take for granted today (few stations had departure boards, platform screens hadn't been invented and if you went to a quieter station there was nobody to ask and no announcements) not to mention the general run down feeling of parts of the network (how many remember Marylebone in the 1980's?).

 

On the whole if offered the choice of todays railway or the railways from my youth, even though it'd be nice to bring back all those classic locomotive classes I'd take the railway of today every time.

 

Routinely I'd take the railway of today to travel on , but I've never felt any great urge to model it...Like you, I grew up with BR Blue, in a town which had lost all passenger services before I was born, so my main childhood railway memory is coal trains rumbling across the level crossings in town- and although the idea of modelling a bit of banger blue East Midlands industrial grot (20s, 37s, 56s and lots of HAAs) sometimes appeals, I've found myself looking back to the 30's instead (2/3/4Fs, Crabs, G2s and lots of PO wagons).

 

Why? I reckon it came down to two things- with no passenger services in town, actually travelling on a train was a rare treat, and as likely to be behind preserved steam (GCR & Battlefield Line) as it was on the 'big' railway, and my first trainset aged about 5- I started out with a Triang Jinty and Princess (nice bit of joined-up LMS/LMR thinking there from my parents!), and my modelling has taken a distinctly Crimson Lake look ever since

Now this did make me giggle. Though I totally agree with your point that we are not getting modern liveries, as they are too complex. The idea that Hornby have a reputation of high quality paint jobs is highly amusing.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

First Great Western blue (Mk3, HST power cars, 153) - wrong 

Colas orange (56, 60) - wrong 

Greater Anglia grey (153) - wrong 

Caledonian Sleeper teal (67) - wrong

GBRf blue (66) - wrong 

 

They might be wrong, but at least they're beautifully-finished wrong....

 

Returning to Hornby's programme for 2018, I can see why the modern image people are a bit down on it, but for the rest of us there's plenty of good in there. The streamlined Coronation isn't a great surprise, I suspect that one was always going to happen after last year's retool of the 'non-bathtub' version, and they've finally got round to doing an LMS black version of the rebuilt Patriot- that's one for my growing collection of wartime-to-nationalisation stock

 

The Nelson probably isn't a great surprise, especially after all the fuss about the catalogue cover, but for me the J36 is star of the show- I don't need one personally, but I hope it sells by the shedload and encourages some more Scottish-flavoured releases- Come on Hornby, you know we all want a Caledonian '439'...

[jjb1970]

Have to admit by being somewhat baffled by some of Hornby's decisions. They now have obviously got the tooling for, I think, all of the Duchess variations through the various Locomotion, Rails and their own production, and, given the ridiculous ebay prices for Sir William, why have they not done another Duchess or even more than one (46235 aside - which is also sound fitted!)? The retailers would be happy given that they would have something to put on the shelves of their shops. Limited, sold out runs are fine but not if you want the smaller shops to survive, even more so if they do not even get their own pre-order fulfilled. Surely the intention should be to balance supply and demand, not to have it so heavily weighted to demand, hence the ridiculously high "pre-owned" prices.

I'm given to think of Mr Micawber's famous quote:

 

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery

 

The difference between an over supply leading to deep discounting and an under supply leading to merriment on EBay probably isn't that great in terms of total production numbers. To do another run Hornby would need to order several hundred (assuming they could get a factory slot, these are probably booked a long time ahead) then it'd probably push the Duchess from being highly sought after at a price premium to bargain bucket material. Hornby have followed up successful models quickly before with unfortunate results for them.

[classy52]

Have to admit by being somewhat baffled by some of Hornby's decisions. They now have obviously got the tooling for, I think, all of the Duchess variations through the various Locomotion, Rails and their own production, and, given the ridiculous ebay prices for Sir William, why have they not done another Duchess or even more than one (46235 aside - which is also sound fitted!)? The retailers would be happy given that they would have something to put on the shelves of their shops. Limited, sold out runs are fine but not if you want the smaller shops to survive, even more so if they do not even get their own pre-order fulfilled. Surely the intention should be to balance supply and demand, not to have it so heavily weighted to demand, hence the ridiculously high "pre-owned" prices.

 

Well said and the same can be applied to modern diesel products from Hornby hence why it was baffling only 1 current era diesel was released for 2018 as in the Colas 67 where they could have added another Class 56 or Class 60 (especially in DB red), if they did and whether they could sell all their product can be debated until the cows come home.

But as stated numerous times already in this thread these are obviously business decisions where Hornby are targeting, they feel, are their most profitable areas which may change in 2019 & beyond and then bring on a whole new debate

[Chris116]

Many posts here have brought up the "which age group models which era" question. I am nearly 64 so I saw and remember the last few years of mainline steam operation. BR got rid of steam and introduced the BR Blue era. Then the railways went through sectorisation and privatization. So what do I model? The mainline is based on Central Trains around year 2000 with a branch line run by a preservation society. Means I get the modern scene (it was very modern when I started) plus my beloved steam trains and I can have them in the livery I like. The one thing that is totally banned from the layout is BR Blue but having said that I have seen some wonderful layouts full of BR Blue. We all model what we like whatever age we are. Long may that continue.

[159220]

Okay, but I was thinking more about surface finish than any discussion of colour veracity.

 

Any reluctance Hornby may have in putting their head on the block with such liveries, as the technology stands, is understandable IMHO.

 

John

Love it! Done wrong but done beautifully. This should be Hornby’s new sound bite!

 

I was going to say a company that does not innovate and add value to their products, is not one that last in business. But then, Hornby do innovate through TTS sound and their water labelling application on 800002. Remember they also have ink jet technology similar to Bachmann, which was applied on HST Harry Patch and on their latest FGW dynamic lines.

 

So Hornby are putting their “head on the block”. Why? As if they don’t innovate, applying new technology, they sink.

 

Hmm GWR application by both Hornby and Bachmann is a wonderful contradication and an forever evolving comprimise on my part. Hornby are getting GWR green spot on, to replicate the Matt band they are literally using Matt. But gloss in 1:76 just does not work for the mass market (I know it does for the limited edition market). Where as Bachmann are seemingly getting the green correct, but it is a little ‘dull’ on the class 57/6. That said, livery samples of the 150/2 look to be the ideal compromise in action. A nice finish in eggshell, with the Matt bands reproduced in a lighter shade of GWR green. So not true to the prototype, but it works.

[jjb1970]

I think Hornby have innovated. They are largely responsible for the current interest in producing industrial models following the Peckett and industrial diesel they did. They along with Bachmann improved the fidelity to prototype of British OO beyond recognition with what went before in the 00's. Their railmastster system is dated now but it provided a low cost and capable route into DCC when launched. TTS has made sound a lot more accessible. And with models like the 395 & 800 they have made properly modern image (as opposed to diesel and electric) models.

Personally I would love to see them do more modern image. And I mean modern, I would love to see an Aventra, Desiro City, 385 and the older Electrostars. However in their financial condition a low risk strategy concentrating on models which are deemed to be low risk is almost unavoidable for now. Hopefully they will turn things around and produce more modern image soon.