Bachmann LMS Porthole Coach Repaints

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

     Here are a few works-in-progress jobs, i've been meaning to repaint some Bachmann Portholes for quite sometime now, it was time to make a start.

 

 

First up is a repaint from crimson-cream BTK (as behind) to late maroon BSK. Now of course Bachmann will be shortly releasing their maroon versions with regular black ends, my version is post-1964 with maroon ends, which became quite common, lasting till the late 1960s and withdrawal. You could buy one of the forthcoming Bachmann and just repaint the ends red, but you'll have a job making the shades of maroon match. 

 

 

Next comes a BTK to BSK repaint in blue-grey livery, I believe recently described by Larry (Coachmann) as "Ice-Cream Van livery"! Around twenty of these vehicles were repainted thus with blue ends, including variations like window frames, door vents and livery application, there was even at least one of the previous "pre-Porthole" type painted in this livery.

 

 

Here's a Porthole Composite in blue, which as far as I know, was unique.

 

 

A Porthole TK repainted to SK in blue-grey, there were at least two of these, but they were rare birds.

 

 

The maroon BSK chassis remains all-black, but the blue-grey versions now have blue solebars and brown bogies, wheels and underframe below the solebar. Some repaints may not have had the blue solebar, retaining black chassis, again more variation. All my bodies need a little bit of correction, followed by numbering, varnishing, and finally replacement of the moulded windows.

                                                                                                       Cheers, Brian.

                                                    

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Brian Kirby

[Enterprisingwestern]

BG.

Like like like.

 

Mike.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Mike, they'll look sharper when titivated and varnished, but we're nearly there. Incidentally, you can also apply the maroon ends to Porthole CK and SK, but probably not the Porthole BFK, FK or FO, these last three types were gone by the end of 1965, usurped by the all-conquering Mk1s and new Mk2 types. This means those three types had gone before the general adoption of blue-grey, however an earlier diagram of SO managed to slip through the net.      Blue-grey livery is a big part of my modelling sphere, but I find it can be one of the most difficult to apply, and get to look right. The RTR firms seem to have similar problems with the livery, invariably the blue is too dark and intense, although Bachmann's latest blue seems more appropriate, conversely some rail blue model paint is rather bright.      BK

Edited January 3, 2018 by Brian Kirby

[Brian Kirby]

My thread title says LMS Porthole Stock, whereas most of these vehicles were actually built by BR for service on the by then London Midland Region. The Porthole stock wasn't a self-contained set of stock, but a continuation of the already built post-war stock with extra doors, so the post-war stock should be regarded as a family of types, indeed production numbers overlap across builds. The blue-grey Portholes would never be seen as a complete rake themselves, but an odd coach would appear in a mixed livery Mk1 or LMS Stanier style set, usually a BSK at one or both ends. They could turn up anywhere on LMR, or even further afield, but most were to be found in the North-West, especially Lancashire.   BK 

[Clive Mortimore]

My thread title says LMS Porthole Stock, whereas most of these vehicles were actually built by BR for service on the by then London Midland Region. The Porthole stock wasn't a self-contained set of stock, but a continuation of the already built post-war stock with extra doors, so the post-war stock should be regarded as a family of types, indeed production numbers overlap across builds. The blue-grey Portholes would never be seen as a complete rake themselves, but an odd coach would appear in a mixed livery Mk1 or LMS Stanier style set, usually a BSK at one or both ends. They could turn up anywhere on LMR, or even further afield, but most were to be found in the North-West, especially Lancashire.   BK 

Hi Brian

 

Weren't the last remaining LMS designed corridor stock fitted with Pullman adapters so they could be marshaled with MK1 stock. Is that why after about 1965 there are not many photos of full trains of LMS coaches but just odd ones in trains of Mk1 and Mk2 coaches?

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Brian

 

Weren't the last remaining LMS designed corridor stock fitted with Pullman adapters so they could be marshaled with MK1 stock. Is that why after about 1965 there are not many photos of full trains of LMS coaches but just odd ones in trains of Mk1 and Mk2 coaches?

I think you're right Clive, saw a photo of one so fitted, the other day. Years ago, i'm sure I read somewhere that the LMR were short of brake vehicles in the mid-60s, and with Porthole brakes not yet 20 years old, they survived for a few more years, till around 1968/9. Maybe the final cull coincided with BR converting many Mk1 rakes to single brake in the middle, rather than one each end (To hell with safety?) A lot of Mk1 brakes also got the chop as a result of this practice.

      Another moan I have about painting blue-grey livery, is once having sorted the desired shade of Rail Blue, unlike the simple straight masking for crimson and cream, or chocolate and cream, the masking for the grey has to be like a box, with curved corners! The rule is usually to start with the lighter colour, but I find it impossible to properly support any masking over the windows, it's too near the windows, so there's not enough horizontal purchase. So I break the rule, and always do blue first, then grey, then you can correct any rough edges, when drawing the white lining on. It still takes longer than the older liveries! (gnashes teeth)    BK

[coachmann]

The LMS coaches had adapters for coupling gangways to Mk.I stock. An LMS rake was coupled to a Mk.I rake and someone forgot the adapter in Manchester Victoria circa 1967. Passenger at one end were isolated from the buffet facilities.

 

Regarding porthole brake seconds in blue & grey, the story at the time was there was a shortage of brake coaches, so they were repainted to match the trains. However, the ones I saw on Trans-Pennine services and in North Wales were in rakes of maroon stock and stood out. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by coachmann

[Ben Alder]

My thread title says LMS Porthole Stock, whereas most of these vehicles were actually built by BR for service on the by then London Midland Region. The Porthole stock wasn't a self-contained set of stock, but a continuation of the already built post-war stock with extra doors, so the post-war stock should be regarded as a family of types, indeed production numbers overlap across builds. The blue-grey Portholes would never be seen as a complete rake themselves, but an odd coach would appear in a mixed livery Mk1 or LMS Stanier style set, usually a BSK at one or both ends. They could turn up anywhere on LMR, or even further afield, but most were to be found in the North-West, especially Lancashire.   BK 

Several shots of them in the late Fifties at Thurso, which sort of surprised me considering  plenty earlier Stanier types  being displaced by Mk 1's from front line services.

[coachmann]

The 'Porthole' stock was general stock and was merely a progression from the coaches built immediately before the war with two extra doors in the corridor and more roof vents. The only difference therefore was the circular lavatory window. This was why they could be found in any train. The Porthole composites did differ however, and were intended to be the forerunners of new coaches. Some of their construction methods made it into BR Mk.I stock. Bachmann made a sound job of replicating the new roof and bodyside profile of the compo as well as fitting four trussrods.

 

At least one of the Porthole models has a pod on the end to accommodate a fire extinguisher. They were added later in life........... I suspect it is a 1960's fitting.

Edited January 4, 2018 by coachmann

[Brian Kirby]

I've never modelled the Pullman gangway adaptors before, and I reckon all the blue-grey Portholes would have had them added, so I gave them a bash. Keeping things simple, it's basically an enlarged top flange to the British Standard gangway, and clips either side of it, roughly halfway down, sometimes the heights of the clips are staggered, sometimes they are level. You can buy an etch for the clips, but i'm just adding angled pieces of wire to represent the locking handles, for the top flange i'm employing a re-shaped office staple, fixed to the top with rapid-drying skin adhesive. The completed gangways are painted black, with a cream inner door. Note the removed upper steps and warning sticker/plate, for running under 25kv sections.    BK

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Brian Kirby

[chris45lsw]

I've never modelled the Pullman gangway adaptors before, and I reckon all the blue-grey Portholes would have had them added, so I gave them a bash. Keeping things simple, it's basically an enlarged top flange to the British Standard gangway, and clips either side of it, roughly halfway down, sometimes the heights of the clips are staggered, sometimes they are level. You can buy an etch for the clips, but i'm just adding angled pieces of wire to represent the locking handles, for the top flange i'm employing a re-shaped office staple, fixed to the top with rapid-drying skin adhesive. The completed gangways are painted black, with a cream inner door. Note the removed upper steps and warning sticker/plate, for running under 25kv sections.    BK

 

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Non adaptor fitted British Standard gangways have a clip roughly half way up on the right hand side.  This is to enable BSGs to be clipped together.  When an adaptor is fitted two more clips are fitted, one each side lower down, and they are always, I believe, the same height.  So an adaptor fitted BSG ends up with three clips - one on the left and two on the right.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Brian Kirby]

Non adaptor fitted British Standard gangways have a clip roughly half way up on the right hand side.  This is to enable BSGs to be clipped together.  When an adaptor is fitted two more clips are fitted, one each side lower down, and they are always, I believe, the same height.  So an adaptor fitted BSG ends up with three clips - one on the left and two on the right.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

Many thanks for that Chris, I wasn't 100% sure about things, info was just gleaned from looking at photos, and photos don't speak, even though "they are worth a thousand words". So BS clips must have been handed, with one per gangway, with one from each coach providing the connection? Looks like my first two handles are good for the adaptor clips, I shall add a third clip above tomorrow.

                                                                                                                                                                       Cheers, Brian.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Looking good Brian, if you've got a couple of spares, or fancy doing contract work!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mike.

[Signaller69]

Something that little bit different, very nice work Brian.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The LMS coaches had adapters for coupling gangways to Mk.I stock. An LMS rake was coupled to a Mk.I rake and someone forgot the adapter in Manchester Victoria circa 1967. Passenger at one end were isolated from the buffet facilities.

 

Regarding porthole brake seconds in blue & grey, the story at the time was there was a shortage of brake coaches, so they were repainted to match the trains. However, the ones I saw on Trans-Pennine services and in North Wales were in rakes of maroon stock and stood out.

When first done they were used at the north end of the Euston - Manchester / Liverpool via Birmingham trains. I remember travelling in them when lodging at Crewe in 1967. They were quite quickly replaced by new Mk2 BSOs but were kept in use particularly in the Northwest as they had been gone over mechanically and cleaned up inside for the electric services.

[Brian Kirby]

All four coaches are now lettered, numbered and varnished, plus the plug-in windows have been re-fitted. These windows still had cream paint on their window vanes, removing the cream is high risk, not wishing to damage or stain the glazing. So I left the cream in situ, and for the maroon BSK covered it with black indian ink, which is water-based, so any mistake can be wiped off, when dry I over-painted the black with water-based Vallejo maroon paint. For the blue-grey coaches, I just applied light grey indian ink over the existing cream, half of the vanes are extremely narrow, so over-spill is unavoidable, this was left to dry, then scaped off with thin soft plastic with smooth edges. I deliberately varied the finish on either side of two vehicles, giving one side satin, the other a weathered matt, to reflect the condition these coaches would be found in, and for a bit of variety. A lot of these vehicles had been converted to dual-heat in the late 50s, for 25kv A.C. working, this involved cutting and replacing the bottom edge of the body panels on the compartment side. This left the scar of a horizontal seam, which shows up in photographs, scoring this with a blade is again risky on an already painted model, instead I drew on black lines. All four vehicles are also now fitted with an impression of Pullman gangway adaptors, with the raised top rim, and three securing clips, as advised by Chris K-T. Just realized, i've forgotten to draw on the carriage board clips (three each side), again with black ink, this method doesn't chip or fall off and is quick to apply, these will be added before bedtime.     BK 

 

[Brian Kirby]

And here are the previously mentioned drawn on black "carriage board clips", which I forgot to add before doing the piccies. In my humble experience, these are tricky to apply in metal or plastic, before painting, plus they get in the way when lining out, and are prone to chipping, the paint wearing off, or falling off completely. Instead I just apply a quick flick of black ink, some may think it awful, but it works for me, to complete the look. I could possibly have fitted orange curtains to the first-class on the right, but without proof of a colour photo, I decided light grey was a far safer choice. For a coach repainted in 1966-67, and withdrawn in 1968, would they really bother to change the curtains? Incidentally, the yellow cantrail stripe is another of my favoured methods, it's sliced up electrical tape. You could use transfer strips,but some are a bit translucent, and it's otherwise difficult to alter the width. This cruel three times size close-up seems to reveal some refracted light, on the left side of the second window, and a rather ragged curtain to the right, I will deal with this.    BK

 

[FPH 603]

Having only just found this thread, I'm liking what I'm seeing and reading here. I think it would have been very interesting to see what you're modelling here in real life. And I must ask, how do you get them to look so good? I unfortunately do not own an airbrush and I'm terrible at hand painting. The last time I tried painting my stock they looked really shabby! These had clear sides too, so not only would sunlight shine through the coaches but I had to avoid painting the windows too!

[davidw]

Brian, did you strip the porthole first. I.'d likto try that with Thompson's 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 20/01/2018 at 20:42, FPH 603 said:

Having only just found this thread, I'm liking what I'm seeing and reading here. I think it would have been very interesting to see what you're modelling here in real life. 

They were certainly an interesting ride, especially behind an AL6 when the driver of a late running train was trying to get back to Crewe before closing time and forgot he was on the Slow line. 90+ on jointed track through Betley Road certainly tested the underpants.

[montyburns56]

I stumbled across some pictures on Flickr of the Porthole stock in blue and grey and I was wondering if anyone had tried to model them and this thread has certainly answered that question. I wonder if Bachmann would consider releasing them in this livery?