Empty Hornby boxes?

[Jack P]

Is there a market for empty boxes?

 

For the longest time I was focused on taking the model out of the box, detailing, modifying - whatever,and then putting it back in the box. For a while this made sense as I had no other storage system. However after having been to the club, and having to get 10 maunsell coaches out of their boxes, and then back into the appropriate ones.. I decided this had to stop, and have now moved to another means of storage. 

 

The issue is, that I now have a huge collection of boxes that are taking up more space than my current storage method. I do not plan to sell any of the models I have, or plan to buy, so keeping the boxes is not a priority.

 

There are some ebay sellers who sell empty boxes, but i'm not sure with what success they move boxes on, especially when they're advertised for $50 per box.

 

However my question is, is there actually a market for empty boxes? Or am I better off just finding space to hang onto them?

 

- Mods feel free to delete or move this topic if it's not in the right place, can't think of where else it would go

[Guest]

Personally, I would hang onto them. BUT... that's because my taste in models is notoriously fickle and I do sometimes change direction and sell them on. My own view is that the actual box itself is worth pennies and has no value compared to the model inside. As you mention, do people really pay the prices we see on ebay for an empty box? If there is a market for them and you are absolutely sure you will no longer need them, maybe try one or two listings to see if anyone bites. If 5 people are daft enough to pay £20 each for a box, you've funded a new loco. I know of one RMWeb member who got rid (binned, not sold) all of his boxes, had a complete change of heart re layout era and then found his locos devalued considerably when he came to sell them on because they had no box. Personally, I'm always wary of the ebay ad that says "unboxed, but will pack carefully".

If you have an alternative means of safe storage for the model and you're absolutely sure you no longer need the box, I suppose it is a bit daft to continue storing what could amount to quite a bulky collection of empty boxes.

[amwells]

I will admit to having bought a few boxes off eBay, but never at the stupid prices that some sellers quote. My preference is to have a box for each item of rolling stock as I can’t run everything at the same time and the original (type of) box seems to be the best way to store, plus it’s important if I sell on items. That said, everyone has different ways of storing so I understand why others get rid of the boxes.

 

As noted above, just make sure you are clear on your decision as it will be much harder to gather the boxes back if you have already disposed of them!

[Stubby47]

I'm thinking about Bachmann boxes here, not sure if other makers'boxes are similar.

 

Remove the inside plastic, unfold in to a linear shape ( just the main folds) and stack together.

Open both ends of the box and push flat.

 

This should save quite a bit of space.

[JSpencer]

The box is half the value of the model to a collector. More so when its SR items.

[JSpencer]

I'm thinking about Bachmann boxes here, not sure if other makers'boxes are similar.

 

Remove the inside plastic, unfold in to a linear shape ( just the main folds) and stack together.

Open both ends of the box and push flat.

 

This should save quite a bit of space.

 

Hornby coach boxes are all but identical to Bachmann ones so yes he could pull out the plastic inner tray, flatten the cardboard outer and stack the inner trays one on top of the other.

 

For locos using ice cube, the cardboard outers can also be opened up and flattened. Then keep the locos in the ice cubes. I did this when I lived in old house and had lack of space. But have since put them all back.

[Dunsignalling]

It's only really rare boxes in near-perfect condition that fetch silly money from "completist" collectors. IIRC one for a pre-war Hornby Dublo A4 went for about £300 at auction some years back.

 

I snaffle any reasonably large (but small enough to go through the loft hatch) cardboard boxes that come into the house, fill them up with r-t-r boxes and stick them in the loft. I give each one an identifying number and list what's inside so I can find anything I later need. 

 

Even if you rarely dispose of models they are easier to sell when boxed (especially by post or at a swapmeet/club sales stand) even if it only makes a couple of quid difference to the price achieved. If trading in via a dealer, the box can make the difference between him wanting the model or not and will certainly improve the price a bit, as the box, in turn, makes a quick sale more likely for him.   

 

In the meantime I have some free extra loft insulation.

 

John

Edited January 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Robin Brasher]

I bought a second hand Wrenn City of London with the wrong box about twenty years ago.  Recently I paid £10 for the correct box.

 

I found it very difficult to sell anything last year as not many people where I live have any money to spend on non essential items and those that have some money have not got any room for model railways.

 

You are more likely to sell something with a box than without one.

[Forester]

Try searching eBay for "Empty Hornby Box" then run down the left hand side of the page to "Completed Listings" and tick the box. It will show actual sales in green.

 

Steady flow of sales, fairly erratic prices from 99p to £15, but not many over £20 apart from Dublo boxes or job lots.

 

The problem with selling them is they cost as much to post empty as with the loco, or whatever, in them.

 

I agree with everyone else about keeping boxes if possible. Models are constantly being updated these days. I usually replace mine if a better one comes along. Easy, as I keep boxes, and usually get near what I paid for an item in its box. Very difficult to get a decent price and make an upgrade worthwhile without the box.

 

But if you are determined to get rid of the boxes then do other modellers a favour by offering them for sale rather than destroying them. Using eBay you will get the occasional good price to make selling the others worthwhile. Or a job lot would bring in some good bids.

[peterfgf]

One of worst decisions I ever made was, 50 year ago, to take all my Hornby Dublo 3-rail rolling stock out of their cardboard boxes and throw the boxes in the bin.

Peterfgf

[Downer]

Throwing away the boxes will cost you money (if you ever want to sell the contents), but it will certainly save you unpacking/repacking time and hassle provided you create a more user-friendly form of storage. I'm compromising at the moment, throwing away wagon boxes but keeping my coaches and locos in theirs. I suspect the coach boxes will be the next to go. Keeping whole rakes in one of those foam-lined thingies looks very appealing. 

[Steamport Southport]

The box is half the value of the model to a collector. More so when its SR items.

 

This. I would certainly keep the boxes of anything that might be worth decent money in the future such as limited editions or highly sought after models.

 

 

 

Jason

[royaloak]

This. I would certainly keep the boxes of anything that might be worth decent money in the future such as limited editions or highly sought after models.

 

 

 

Jason

But sometimes it is the poor selling run of the mill stuff which somehow becomes collectable, no I havent a clue why either!

Edited January 4, 2018 by royaloak

[Steamport Southport]

To be honest I keep them all. Even though most of the models are modified in some way.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Chamby]

I can empathise with the OP about the space issue. All of my stuff is stored in those Really Useful Boxes with foam trays inside, organised in rakes or otherwise related items. I have found this by far the easiest Way to safely transport stock to my club and exhibitions.

 

I also have all the original boxes stored. Most of them have been opened only once, so remain in excellent condition. They are stacked in large boxes under my home layout at the moment. I would have put them in the garage or loft, but things tend to go damp there, if stored for any length of time. Some Hornby boxes in particular are prone to falling apart along the seams if exposed to damp.

 

Having a pristine box certainly helps when you come to sell your stuff on.

[brushman47544]

I keep my coaches and wagons in stock boxes and have thrown away their individual boxes. This was on the basis that the prices were around £10.00 and £25.00 respectively new, and second hand much less. So the box didn't really make much difference. Now that the prices are going up considerably I may reconsider. Locos on the other hand I have always kept the boxes irrespective of whether the locos were stored in them or not.

Edited January 4, 2018 by brushman47544

[tractionman]

A similar discussion to this cropped up last year:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123433-what-do-you-do-with-your-boxes/?p=2744354

 

Personally, I keep all my original boxes--but then I have enough space to do so--if one day I need to sell off some or all of my rolling stock.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[locomad]

Most of the stock I purchase is second hand without a box, it does seem to be a lot cheaper, so assume it works other way round with a box you might get more and be easier to sell.

 

I make my own for storage out of cereal box cardboard based on the old Hornby dublo box, one advantage is you can store them empty flat, certainly take up a lot less space.

 

More modern stock boxes seem to be more of a problem, firstly getting models in and out without damaging them, then the packing takes up a lot more space, a small wagon can take up as much a 3 times as much space in box, plus while out the box takes just a much space.

 

As mentioned before some packaging can damage stock in the box especially polystyrene

[Jack P]

The box is half the value of the model to a collector. More so when its SR items.

 

 

I model pre-nationalisation SR... 

 

It seems that the majority of comments are, don't get rid of them because it hurts the resale value, but I'm really not worried about the resale. Admittedly. I may kick myself some years down the track, but for the last 10 years this has been the area and time period I am interested in, I do not see this changing any time soon. To add to that, nearly everything has been repainted or had weathering applied to some degree, so this would probably effect the price at resale even more.

 

I might list them up and see how I go!

[kernowtim]

Stick them on ebay, no doubt someone will want them, got £10 for an empty vitrains box a few years ago,

[Dunsignalling]

I model pre-nationalisation SR... 

 

It seems that the majority of comments are, don't get rid of them because it hurts the resale value, but I'm really not worried about the resale. Admittedly. I may kick myself some years down the track, but for the last 10 years this has been the area and time period I am interested in, I do not see this changing any time soon. To add to that, nearly everything has been repainted or had weathering applied to some degree, so this would probably effect the price at resale even more.

 

I might list them up and see how I go!

Whether it affect the price or not, a used model (especially a loco) in its proper container is just more saleable. How well would a modern super-detailed loco survive a trip through the post without it? 

 

In the case of locos, except in the case of hard-to-get items, if a dealer is offered two otherwise similar locos, one boxed and one not, he will go for the boxed one every time. easier to handle, easier to sell, and much less likely to have/get anything broken off.

 

John

[locomad]

Whether it affect the price or not, a used model (especially a loco) in its proper container is just more saleable. How well would a modern super-detailed loco survive a trip through the post without it? 

 

In the case of locos, except in the case of hard-to-get items, if a dealer is offered two otherwise similar locos, one boxed and one not, he will go for the boxed one every time. easier to handle, easier to sell, and much less likely to have/get anything broken off.

 

John

 

Good point, problem I find by the time you add on all the brake gear you can't get it back in the orginial box, plus end up damaging the loco in the process.

 

I still keep the modern loco boxes, I've a location where it's dry to keep them, but I do find that some of the inner packing tends to go off.

 

I'am not a fan of those very thin plastic inners on fairly new modern stock they tend to split with age, making the box useless, I have noticed those with stock in last longer

[adb968008]

The box is half the value of the model to a collector. More so when its SR items.

Model trains in boxes is like cars with dealer service stamps. It only makes a difference in the “new release” years. Once the models are aged no one cares. Long term it makes no difference.

 

All it means is you can unlock some of the models overall value now.

 

On ebay, everything has one of two values.

 

1. Sell it quick, but for 10-15% less than you would get if it was buy it now... Auction.. everything WILL sell and find it’s price, if you start it at 99p.

2. Patience.. you’ll get 10-15% more with buy it now, but it’s less predictable when it will sell.

 

When it’s comes to selling that’s all that matters, box or no box.

 

No one knows what anything will be worth in the future, but recent history shows ALL models since the 1970’s (bar Wrenn which will at some stage) depreciate, some more than others, but they all lose value, doesn’t matter what the condition or the box. Every model has a limited lifespan.

 

If your looking to make money on a model your best bet, is buy the most popular ones now, bet of the manufacturer going bust then cash in... Lima 87’s/60’s fetched nice prices at one point, until Hornby picked them up, then as everyone picked away at classes on the range for new toolings one by one their inflated value bit the dust back to the £20 price they fetch today... no one really cares if they are in the right box or not.

 

Same again for 1980’s Hornby.. it’s all in the bargain range, it’s worth what it’s worth, doesn’t matter if it’s boxed or not, it still sells, but very little fetches a premium most sell at or below their original price.

Finally all those treasured 1990’s limited editions, Bachmanns £100 wooden boxes.. can be had for as little as £50 in some examples.

They all lose money, at best they retain original value due to inflation.

 

If you can get £5-10 for a box, the most it generally does is reduce the value of your unvboxed model between £5-10... just don’t put the parts bag in the box when you sell it.. that’s usually worth a fiver too.

 

Me.. I just sold 1000 locos and 1000 wagons/coaches etc from my late fathers collection this summer, much of it was from the periods above, the prices fetched were healthy, approx 50% was in the right box, 25% had a box, and 25% had no box. In addition to that I had around 200+ Boxes (wagon boxes mostly*) to which I had no meaningful content or anything fit after all was done.. they fetched £300-400 on ebay. No one cared which box they were in (though I made a conscious effort over 12 weekends to make sure as many of them were correct as possible). It all sells, no one complains.

*its a puzzle to me why he had so many wagon boxes but no wagon too...he had 50 ici Dapol tank wagon boxes.. but only 12 ICI tank wagons)

 

Only if that box is uniquely special some day it may be worth something.. for example a Hornby Exeter in a Sanda Kan box... but 10 years from now it could be moot... XYZ trains could make a new unrebuilt Bullied, much better than the current one.. putting all the Hornby ones in the bargain bin, including Exeter from Sanda Kan as no one will care as the hobby and it’s herd moves on.

 

The hobby has had 3 big evolutionary changes in 50 years, all of them due to track, each change saw the entire old range of models replaced and dumped...

 

1. 3-rail to 2-rail

2. Change to Code 100 track (from 1960’s deep flanges)

3. Introduction of DCC

 

The hobby has to be one of the last industries remaining to fail to mass adopt to the world of IT, and when it does (I predict IOT/Battery/steel track and return of magnetics for adhesion).. rails become dead, and it will lead to another revolution in the hobby... making the box nothing more than what it is... a container to hold a now out of date train.

Edited January 5, 2018 by adb968008

[Forester]

So basically you had 1000 old locos and 1000 old wagons/coaches and you piled them high and sold them cheap to get rid of them quickly.

 

How does that prove anything? It certainly doesn't prove that the boxes had no value. Only that people will bag an unboxed total bargain if offered one.

[adb968008]

So basically you had 1000 old locos and 1000 old wagons/coaches and you piled them high and sold them cheap to get rid of them quickly.

 

contentious assumption, a little bit personal, hurtful don’t you think, maybe you care to prove or defend it ?

 

Back on topic

So i’ll Restate my point which is.. box or no box, it makes no difference.

 

Heart breaking as it is to those who are deeply invested in perfect mint condition unused Mainline Jubilees in perfect condition boxes from 1977 stored in cotton wool... if you sold it on ebay it’ll fetch £30-40 max.. box or no box. Indeed if you chuck the box away and sold the chassis, tender and body separate, it may fetch even more without the box.

 

Further more, whilst it may be mint boxed and unused.. its axles May have split making it unusable, so to a buyer online.. it’s cheap, second hand and just happens to be in a decent box, but generally it won’t fetch a premium for the box.. the model itself is now just too old.

 

Model railways is not fine wine, rare art or an investment.. it’s what it is.. a hobby to enjoy here and now.

 

I’ve bought and sold trains depending on circumstances on off since 1985.. rare Trix A2’s fetched over £100 then, not worth £30 now.

As soon as technology changes, or a retool is announced, the old version deflates from whatever peak it achieved, down to a baseline. You could even do it in maths..

 

100% is a newly tooled models new off the shelf value

40% less is its second hand (mint condition) it’s rrp value (dealers get 40% new so they aren’t going to pay more for a second hand one)

50% off new it’s used/typical value

60% will be a second hand old versions “mint” value

70% for a well used one.

 

 

So for example..

£100 new Bachmann collet

£ 60 a new “second hand one”

£ 50 a “mint” older Bachmann one

£ 40 a “mint” Replica/Mainline one

£ 30 “a well worn” Replica Mainline one.

 

So at the bottom end of the food chain, what value the box on a knackers £30 Mainline one ?.. £1 ?.. certainly won’t pay a fiver for it.

How much was Replicas brand new Collett in 1991.. £34.50.. I have the catalog in front of me.

 

If you disagree maybe give some ready to run examples of 1980-90’s rtr OO gauge models, including limited editions if you wish, which fetch massive premiums (double,triple, quadruple) over an above original sale value, and have exceptional price differences just down to a box.. something made by Dapol Replica, Mainline, Lima or Hornby perhaps, even if it’s been replaced by a new tooling.. the original held its own...

Lima’s holy grail was 50008 Thunderer, sold at £39.99. Fetched £150 soon after.. today £40 on ebay, boxed or unboxed, certificate or not. Bachmann opus magna was 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower, limited to 250 for Walthers only in the US.. fetched £650 25 years ago.. £125 on ebay now, same as Walthers sold it for originally, wooden box may have some value... £5 ?. You can even get a Hornby APT for under £100.. boxed or unboxed.

 

Long term it makes no difference. Short term, if you can sell it take it, it’s value is closer to new resale the higher the boxes value...boxes depreciate too.

 

At some point even Pecketts,46256 and the Merchant navies will all fall from grace back to a below rrp model.. indeed I predict the gap between Pecketts has become so long that the Barclay will eat the market and the next Pecketts may fail to sell out, and crash the prices of the previous ones..,what’s the box worth ? Same as before.

 

Charles Darwin taught this centuries ago, it’s life... RRP that turns VIP ultimately becomes RIP.

 

Today’s highly collectible, must have, never to be repeated, once in a lifetime, limited, exclusive, sought after, rare, ultimate prize trains are tomorrow’s spare parts and bargains on ebay...boxed or not.

Edited January 5, 2018 by adb968008