RANGERS Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 One that doesn't want RMweb members to go to it. Or one who’s organisers have previously been excluded from RMWeb for some or other misdemeanour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 Or one who’s organisers have previously been excluded from RMWeb for some or other misdemeanour! You may think that but I couldn't possibly comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The two pages we saved (on average) would be used for either an extra article or to extend the space given to other articles. So if it costs a club £30 for a couple of column inches of diary entry in the magazine, does that mean that BRM are paying clubs £10 per column inch, say £360 per page when they feature their layouts? I don't suppose Warners have started paying club member who operate layouts at their shows the minimum wage either.... A little income from a couple of pages seems to have cost a lot of goodwill Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 So if it costs a club £30 for a couple of column inches of diary entry in the magazine, does that mean that BRM are paying clubs £10 per column inch, say £360 per page when they feature their layouts? I don't suppose Warners have started paying club member who operate layouts at their shows the minimum wage either.... A little income from a couple of pages seems to have cost a lot of goodwill Jon Whilst the reasoning behind the decision been clearly explained I would certainly echo the thoughts posted above. However, according to the quoted statistics, those whose good will is being eroded are in the minority. Then again, statistics can look better if you are selective in what you look at and respond to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Hi Steve I recently asked the question at our clubroom how many members use or look at RMWEB on a regular basis. I think it was either 3 or 4 out of a Membership of nearly 80 Members. I’m sorry but I think it is a bad move, as much as BRM and Warner’s wish us all to use the Internet it ain’t going to happen anytime soon. We are all told to use or lose your local Model Shop and quite righty so. Is that so different in BRM not supporting Model Railway clubs in the published magazine Eltel And out of 56 in our Club, only myself and Peter BB are aware of R M Web, which is a shame, but the rest seem to have no interest in Internet forums or chat rooms, let alone searching for data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2018 It surprises me how few exhibitions start threads, which is free, fail to link those threads to their own websites Facebook pages etc, fail to update the pages as the show nears, “bump” the threads to the top of new content etc etc Sadly, it’s easier to comment to negatively, particularly with the benefit of anonymity than to say “found that useful.” Personally, I think the age of time based adverts in magazines has passed. I do agree with a comment above, I think from andyram, that magazines could do more on exhibitions and explaining the benefits of them. But then, as discussed elsewhere, the editor has a challenging job in trying to keep content fresh and not repetitive. One thread on here, that had some good exhibition content, was 2manyspam’s Treneglos thread where Chris linked the descriptions of the build and the challenges of exhibitions to how the design of that layout evolved. Might make an interesting article to give a perspective on exhibiting. (Of course such article may already have been done and i’ve just not seen it!) David Thanks for the comments David, glad you enjoyed the thread. Careful what you wish for by the way... Something we've always done as a team is help promote the shows we attend. We generally have given a list forthcoming shows, updated as we accept invites. As the show gets closer we give a reminder and on the way to the show and during it post a bit too. If the show has a website or expo thread we include links to that. What does amaze me is how many shows do absolutely nothing digitally on the web to promote their show. The vast majority of digital advertising is free - fartbook, twinker, RMweb, other forums etc. There have been shows that I've wanted to visit where it's been almost impossible to find out details on the date, location, cost, let alone the layouts and traders attending. Gift horse in the mouth? Interestingly, if I wanted to find out about a show I would look on the web rather than buying a mag. Pictures and posts make it much easier to work out what a show will be like and if the trip is worthwhile. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 10 years ago I would have understood that a lot of people in the hobby don't have the internet and that they should be catered for. Now I just feel like refusing to use/learn to use the internet and then complaining about services not catering for them is a bit like complaining that a company doesn't send a messenger round to your house because you don't have a phone. It's not a problem, you can still get on with your life, but you have to understand that you will miss out on things. Now please can someone print this and hand out a copy to everyone in their club? I don't want to learn to drive so I can't deliver it myself. Edited January 10, 2018 by Corbs 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 The last time I attended a show, I was enticed by pasties. Bloody good they were as well. Didn't make it to the northbound slip of the M5.... Ian. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 Well done Andy giving the whingers something to whinge about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 This feels like a storm in a tea cup. BRM is proposing charging an extremely modest sum for publicising events that, presumably/hopefully?, make money for their clubs. If a club believes that by placing an advert in BRM, then even at £2 per person entry, you only need an extra dozen at most people to attend to have broken even on the advert. If you’re show economics are that marginal, then staging a show might be a bit too much of a risk for your club. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted January 10, 2018 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2018 Whilst the reasoning behind the decision been clearly explained I would certainly echo the thoughts posted above. However, according to the quoted statistics, those whose good will is being eroded are in the minority. Then again, statistics can look better if you are selective in what you look at and respond to. The web use statistics I posted are straight from the ONS website, you are welcome to go and check them for yourself as you appear to believe I have modified or falsified them in some way. However, I think they correlate with people's experiences. The numbers who aren't online are dropping every year. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 I've done some research how people find out about our small show and to be frank RM Web does not score. The magazines and local publicity do. And which show is that one? As you ask: The 54th Rochdale MRG Model Railway Exhibition Sat 7th April – Sun 8th April 2018 The Coach House, Lodge Street, Littleborough, Lancashire OL15 9AE OPENING TIMES: SAT 10am-4.30pm, SUN 10am-4.30pm ADMISSION: Adults £3.00; Accompanied Under 16s FREE Now I'm confused. That was either a triple whammy that Andy got suckered into, or you're talking a load of unsubstantiated b%ll%cks. I know which one my money is on. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The web use statistics I posted are straight from the ONS website, you are welcome to go and check them for yourself as you appear to believe I have modified or falsified them in some way. However, I think they correlate with people's experiences. The numbers who aren't online are dropping every year. I actually never said you had falsified anything. Nor did I suggest that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm beginning to wonder what colour box this thread belongs in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) As far as I am aware I'm the only member of my club who is a member on here, but the club does have a general account that is used for making updates on one of the layouts. I really don't see why some people are being so hasty and abrasive to the BRM crew. If the show guide wasn't attracting many readers, then it should be replaced with something that will. And if it is, say, £20 for details of your show to be included in the magazine, and if the average adult admission fee is £4 then five visitors will soon reimburse the money paid for the publicity. Edited January 10, 2018 by SVRlad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On the subject of emarketing, other than Warley and Ally Pally, where I’ve brought tickets on line in advance, I don’t recall at any show being asked for an email address either directly on arriving or via a spurious excuse - eg please complete your wish list. If I have, I don’t think I’ve ever received a follow up email either thanking me for attending a show, asking for feedback via survey monkey (eg voting for best layout), got advance notice of future shows etc. I appreciate there can be issues about data protection but these are manageable. Sure someone needs to type them in (unless you use an ipad to sign people in on the desk) but an easy way to build a marketing database to publicise your club and subsequent events. And also cost free. David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2018 10 years ago I would have understood that a lot of people in the hobby don't have the internet and that they should be catered for. Now I just feel like refusing to use/learn to use the internet and then complaining about services not catering for them is a bit like complaining that a company doesn't send a messenger round to your house because you don't have a phone. It's not a problem, you can still get on with your life, but you have to understand that you will miss out on things. Very well put and very true. On-line communication is now the principal means of disseminating information and news and really if people consciously decide to opt out of using those channels then obviously that is an individual choice but the result of that is that you'll miss out on a lot of stuff (which to be honest, in the case of the news is probably not a bad thing when I look at real news sites). I still think magazines have a place and serve a real need (both in hard copy and on-line) but that place is to provide articles and content, not classifieds and news like in older days when the main reason I bought model railway magazines was for the news and classifieds. If BRM are reducing space given over to news and providing more articles instead then I'd call that a positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 As said above, I am only one (at most) 4 people on RMweb in my club of over 50. Obvoiusly this figure will improve over time, but not by much. Remember there are still a great number of people that their only conection with the 'wider modelling world' is a magazine and they are not a member of a club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) If we are playing the "extrapolate from your mates opinions" game then how about this. My club has 90 members. Less than 20 of those go to any other show than our own event. Take out those going to specialist events - GOG Telford and Scaleforum - and you are down to single figures. I could actually give a list of people I'd expect to see at an exhibition. On that basis, only 10% or readers have ANY interest in the diary dates, yet 100% of them are paying for those pages that could otherwise be filled up with modelling content. This is from an active club with 5 layouts under construction. I don't understand it myself as I love going to shows, but that it does appear I'm not typical in this. I thought we were supposed to be promoting Model Railways. I appreciate it takes up space but surely telling people when things are on that might be of interest is promoting the hobby. I visit exhibitions all over Central Scotland , while I know roughly when these exhibitions are , I don’t know the precise weekend, so an exhibition diary is still useful. Other than individual threads eg Model Rail Scotland I hadn’t realised there was an exhibition listing on here. I’ve just had a look at it, and I may be doing it wrong, but it’s just a list of exhibitions, it’s not sorted in any way , so you have to trawl through it to find an exhibition. That said any exhibition manager that doesn’t take advantage of a free listing is clearly missing a trick. Edited January 10, 2018 by Legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2018 I thought we were supposed to be promoting Model Railways. I appreciate it takes up space but surely telling people when things are on that might be of interest is promoting the hobby. I visit exhibitions all over Central Scotland , while I know roughly when these exhibitions are , I don’t know the precise weekend, so an exhibition diary is still useful. Other than individual threads eg Model Rail Scotland I hadn’t realised there was an exhibition listing on here. I’ve just had a look at it, and I may be doing it wrong, but it’s just a list of exhibitions, it’s not sorted in any way , so you have to trawl through it to find an exhibition. That said any exhibition manager that doesn’t take advantage of a free listing is clearly missing a trick. Yes but equally i visit quite a considerable number of exhibitions within a fairly wide sweep from home and I can't recall having looked at an 'exhibition diary' in a railway modelling magazine for years. Many of them are regulars so i check online for dates, some of them arise through RMWeb threads (the Cardiff Small Show is an excellent example of this where a number of folk I know who attend got there info on the show via threads on this forum). Now the $64,000 question is whether either you or I, or both of us, miss any shows because of the main sources of our information and as far as I'm concerned the answer is that I've learnt of what some might regard as rather esoteric small shows, which hapoen to appeal to me, through the web and I haven't a clue if they appeared in magazines. And that apart neither of us knows what we've missed unless someone happens to tell us subsequently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 Mike - Staplegrove, Taunton, April 29th - consider yourself told 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Like all businesses Warners only exist to make a profit and nobody should have a problem with that. If they see this as a way of improving profits then they should do it but I can't see that this new charge will raise anywhere near noticeable revenue for an organisation the size of Warners. It will all be part of their business plan and they may be right in thinking exhibition diaries are no longer needed in magazines. I can also understand that this move will have annoyed just about every exhibition manager in the country. Maybe Warners see this as a way of giving even more prominence to their own exhibitions. My concern is that Warners might be looking to promote their own exhibitions at the cost of damaging other exhibitions by not telling readers that other shows are available. This would be a completely fair and well reasoned business decision but doesn't fit well with clubs running exhibitions to raise funds to keep their clubs going. I may be reading more into this than I should as, as has already been said, information is freely available online and in other magazines. In conclusion, you can be sure it has been done for a business reason but at the moment it is not clear what that reason is. Improving revenue for BRM magazine doesn't seem to be a likely reason because the amounts to be gained are too small. Providing more space for more articles at no additional printing cost by dropping something that is no longer of interest to most readers may or may not be reason enough. Well done to the moderators for allowing this discussion to run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm beginning to wonder what colour box this thread belongs in? Sorry Mike, just got that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 Being devils advocate for a moment, but wouldn't it be in Warners, (other publishers are available), best interests to put in exhibition listings for free?, and then give somebody the task of making sure none were missed, after all, magazines need a future supply of customers, and getting more bodies in exhibitions is one way of doing that. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don’t think I have ever bought a magazine to discover what exhibitions might be on in any particular month, even in the dark and distant past before the general public web arrived. I appreciate that even today there are many who form the backbone of railway modelling activities - i.e. are of a certain age (of which I am one ) - who do not use the web to any great extent, and maybe not at all, but when you consider that for many local shows the majority of the visiting public will be local in nature and most probably aware of the show by means other than an advert in a modelling magazine ( flyers, posters, word of mouth, etc), it raises the question of how many ‘ extra ‘ visitors adverts in mags produce. To my mind two extra pages of editorial content is more likely to raise sales and spark modelling interest than lists of exhibitions the reader has no desire/interest/ability to visit. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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