Second hand Duchess

[Simond]

Meanwhile, caught a few rays when just back from the office.

 

 

That looks rather better

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Well, after a couple of running-in sessions, it’s running sweetly, but just not quite as freely as I’d like, and after 15 minutes on the rolling road, the motor is a little warm. I’ll have it to bits this evening and look for tight spots, free up any I find, and clean, relubricate, and reassemble.

 

A little effort & delay now is much easier than having to dismantle the valve gear once it’s been fitted.

 

Best

Simon

[John K]

Hi Simon

It's looking rather good.

I'm not averse to using few drops of Brasso here and there to help ease tight spots on rods and crankpins.

As long as you get it all off afterwards it does not seem to have any deleterious effect.

John

Edited April 17, 2018 by John K

[TerryD1471]

If you haven't already done it, lose the back steps on the tender. The ex-streamlined tenders never had them.

Simon

 

If it isn't already clear from the preceding posts, this tender seems to have the high front end and flush riveted sides of an ex-streamlined "Type 1" tender (David Jenkinson's classification) and the back end of a "Type 2". So you have a tender which didn't actually exist! There were five "Type 2" tenders which originally ran behind 6230-4 (with rear steps), 3 type 3s (which stayed behind 6253-5) and 2 type 4s (which stayed with 6256-7).

I'm sure it's no consolation, but Hornby Dublo made the same mistake when they tooled up (in 4 mm) for their City of London back in the late 50s.

 

6229 always towed an ex-streamliner, so unless you want to do major surgery, the best compromise might be, as suggested, lose the back steps and accept that the footsteps riveted to the back of the tender tank are wrong. The ex-streamliners all had a ladder up the back of the tender and twin water fillers. Also all Duchess tenders had coal pushers, the gubbins of which was on the back plate of the coal space.

 

Sorry if this rains on your parade! Such a shame the original builder got the tender wrong, especially when the paint job is so good, so I wouldn't blame you if you just said "S*d it, I'll leave it alone!"

 

Lovely workmanship on the chassis, by the way!

 

Best

 

Terry D

[Simond]

Terry,

 

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I do seem to have a bit of a mongrel! I’m not going to risk the paint job, so it’ll have to stay a bit mixed up.

 

It has a coal pusher in the coal space, but I believe there should be a large enclosed structure on the rear deck of the tender, rather than what looks like half a water dome, and a single water filler, and two lifting lugs. I’m still looking for photos of the back deck, and rear face of the tender, but it’s probably academic, as it ain’t getting changed!

 

Whilst the chassis when first built was smooth enough to push along and roll under its own weight, it just had a tight spot when motoring on the rolling road, which I hope I have now eliminated by taking the rear left crankpin off, putting it on the mandrel that I made for milling the flats on the flange, flange inwards, in the lathe, and polishing the shank with a very fine Swiss file. This seems to have done the trick, if not, it just might need the same treatment on the rear right. And maybe John K’s brasso will finish the job.

 

The trick for finding the problem is to see if the rods will move in & out (a finger nail or a needle is good for this), then move the wheels round one spoke or two, and repeat, it’ll be obvious when the rods go tight. If it’s a difference between the rod centres and the axle centres, I think it’ll jam at 3 o’clock or 9 o’clock - I think it’s more complicated than that if it goes tight at about half past seven, this implies a combination of quartering, crank throw, and both rods. Given Slaters wheels, quartering can almost be eliminated, likewise crank throw. The problem is that the wheels had been already fitted with screws, which I had removed. I wonder if there was some looseness when I put the new pins in, meaning that they might not have gone in straight, thus maybe slightly off on throw or angular position. I’m pretty confident that the axle bearing spacing were spot on.

 

The question of what to do if the tight spot doesn’t go away arises. Hopefully not here, but it might be a question that someone needs to answer. On the GoG forum David L and David LO Smith (and on his own website) have both addressed the problem, by creating a jig to hold the wheel, and re-bore the crankpin holes in all wheels. I have the milling machine, let’s hope I don’t have to use it!

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Success!

 

Running sweetly

 

Goodnight

Simon

[John K]

Success!

 

Running sweetly

 

Goodnight

Simon

Go on Simon, share how you fixed it, or was it a simple easing of a coupling rod 'ole?

John

[Simond]

Hi John,

 

Nah, not the ‘ole. Working on the theory that it’s pennies if I make a bo77ox of the bush, and a new pair of rods if I mangle them...

 

Took the crankpin bush off, put it on a 10BA mandrel in the lathe and polished it with a Swiss file, with a safe edge against the flange. Did the obviously tight rear left hand one, tried it, and there was still the slightest tightness still there, so I did the rear right one too.

 

It now runs at a couple of rpm at a volt or so, and winds up nicely - I’ve no idea how fast it’ll go, but fast enough, I guess.

 

I’d be surprised if I took off more than a couple of thou. I didn’t measure it.

 

I can post a photo of bush, mandrel & lathe this evening if anyone wants one, meanwhile it’s running on the rolling road whilst I’m having my porage.

 

Meanwhile,

A very dull video!

 

Best

Simon

Edited April 18, 2018 by Simond

[3 link]

Hi Simon,

 

Is porage like porridge but made to a secret Kentish recipe..... : )

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Simond]

According to Wikipedia, you can even spell it “parritch”

 

My dad, who grew up in Donegal, called it “brochan” or something similar. Apparently there’s a Scottish folksong that uses this word for porridge/parritch/porage, though I expect you’d have a thin time of it if you put brochan on your shopping list...

 

Anyway, enough of this nonsense, I have to earn a crust. She’s been running since 0655 this morning and I can’t feel any warmth in the motor, so I think I’ll call it a wrap. Valve gear beckons!

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Bit of a test run this evening, in wonderful weather

 

 

Seems to work...

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Ok, so she goes. She managed (a mix of brass & plastic) 7 bogie coaches and two vans up Whitton bank (1 in 100 with a curve) with minor wheelslip, so we added the 4 coach mail set. She struggled with 12! I’d be pretty confident that 12 on the flat would be no bother at all, which indicates that the gearbox from Premier does what it ought. We had a minor derailment, which appears to be due to some unevenness in the baseboards (over 20 years in the garden, so they’re not doing too bad...) so I have added a washer between the bogie pin and the frames, which means there is more droop travel on the bogie. Hopefully that will sort it, but I’m not sure the bogie pitches as well as it might. More work may be required.

 

So we come to the motion.

 

When I bought her, the cylinders were bolted to the frames with 10BA screws, through what may be termed “clearance holes” in what appears to be a couple of slices hacked?! from the original kit frames. Shall we just say that they were much larger than the screws, and of such uncertain shape, they’d have certainly provided clearance for a scale sheepdog. Having recessed the plate carrying the motion brackets into the frames, I was keen to attach the cylinders to it, thus allowing me build the motion off the loco.

 

The solution I have adopted uses milled brass angle to attach the cylinders to the front of the plate, and a further piece soldered into a transverse slot, to support and stiffen the assembly.

 

Initially, I had soldered a transverse piece of brass angle in front of the cylinders, but on re-examination of the footplate assembly, it was going to be far too difficult to cut away the original frames to make this work, so the slot was adopted, and the original supports cut back.

 

 

Cylinder located and clamped in place. Pre-tinned assymetric brass angle soldered to top edge of cylinder and backplate. Used the resistance soldering unit, to get the heat in quickly, and not scorch the paint. You can see the earth clamp.

 

 

Ditto other cylinder, both soldered to motion bracket support plate, and brass angle soldered across front. This was super snug, but was not going to work well with the footplate assy, so, jump down a picture:

 

 

After the revised arrangement was done, check it all fits. Result!

 

This is the revised arrangement with the new cross beam replacing the original, which was cut off!

 

 

I then started on the slide bar supports, of which there were none. If you look closely, you’ll see that I didn’t allow enough length, and it doesn’t quite reach the motion bracket support plate. Still, I now know how to make these brackets.

 

 

And here are two views of the part out of the loco. I’ll hopefully make these up this evening.

 

 

 

I’ll cut back most of the rear flange, so it will not look overdone, hopefully.

 

That’s where I’m up to today.

Best

Simon

Edited April 21, 2018 by Simond

[Simond]

So, a couple of steps forward, possibly one back...

 

I made the slide bar supports on the mini-miller, with the final shaping by hand by file. MrsD wasn’t overly appreciative of the sounds of brass being tortured, but got there without marital disharmony.

 

Finished them off, and soldered them in yesterday evening, painted them before going to work this morning. That meant I could attack Mr Walschaerts’ knitting this evening.

 

 

On reflection, I should have photographed that before painting everything, but it looks better painted...

 

The previous assembly had the expansion link pivot screw going through the lifting link die-block slot in the radius rod, which wasn’t quite on. Sort of Triang. I didn’t want the loco in mid gear, so I drilled the expansion links (which appear to be cast nickel silver) 1mm as near to the cosmetic hole as I dared, which puts the radius rods about half way down the expansion links, and means there will be some travel.

 

The expansion links were pivotted on a couple of brass 10BA screws, running on the threads, which wasn’t attractive, so I turned up a couple of screws with shoulders and a plain shank.

 

 

I needed to file the slide bar support back on one side to get clearance for the combination lever, there was plenty of room on the other side, this seemed to reflect on the cylinder spacing, I wonder if one of the rear covers is a bit off square.

 

 

Modified expansion links

 

 

All together as a sub-assembly

 

 

“Houston, we have a problem”.

 

Mmm, this is a bit of a buffer. The return crank pivot should be roughly in line with the edge of the brass hub in the wheel, but the hole in the return crank rod won’t go that far backwards, meaning it will bind when I get round to fitting the return cranks. It’s as far astern as it will go in the photo. It’s fine on the other side, so I didn’t make a cod’s ear of the pivot positions, and the links are both the same length, so I’m a tad flummoxed.

 

I suspect that there is just not quite enough angular clearance at the expansion link. It was a bit of a job getting what I’ve got, but perchance it just needs a tad more. A job for tomorrow evening, maybe. Annoyingly, it means stripping it down, but as it now (nearly) all screws together, that’s not the end of the world. The pin that located the radius rod in the expansion link is soldered, but I can sort that.

 

We shall see...

 

Forgot a bit... the lifting links are pivoted on a rod through the frames. I was going to make a couple of brackets cantilevered out from the back of the motion bracket support plate, and shorten the rod either side so it could all remain a sub assembly, but before I put saw to metal, I had a moment’s inspiration. The lifting links can stay on their pivot rod on the frames, they don’t need to be attached to the radius rods at all - indeed, they can’t be!

 

Best

Simon

Edited April 24, 2018 by Simond

[Simond]

Well, rather a lot of fiddly fettling and we have the necessary clearance for the waggly bits to waggle. This evening, I discovered that the connecting rods had been opened out to 3.25mm, so had to turn up a couple of bushes for them, and then soldered the return cranks to the bushes.

 

Inevitably, when you do this, the angle at which it tightens up will be wrong, so then there’s a process of filing a tiny bit off the end, reassembling, disassembling, filing, reassembling. It must be possible to calculate the angle, and knowing the pitch of the thread, mill off just enough to get it right first time, but you’d have to work out how to hold it...

 

So I took the filing option - I go5 it pretty much right first go on the left, and took three bites of the cherry on the right. Or was it the other way around?

 

 

This is a simple jig to hold the bush to the return crank for soldering

 

And here it is

 

https://youtu.be/2mQrlchXXPA

 

As an inveterate GW modeller, I’ve never done outside valve gear before, so it was a new venture for me.

 

I want to replace the loose 14BA screws holding the valve rod to the return crank with something both more engineered and more prototypical, and it’ll want a decent bit of running on the rolling road before getting out on the outdoor track.

 

Next job, brakes & sand pipes.

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Given it a bit of a run this evening, looks like it’ll be ok for a run on John’s garden line on Thursday, weather permitting. Hopefully the light’ll be better!

 

 

Needs lifting levers to finish the valve gear, at least until I sort out better pivots for the valve rods. The gap under the cab where the injectors belong is looking a bit obvious. Then, on to brakes & sandpipes.

 

Then, the tender...

 

Best

Simon

Edited April 30, 2018 by Simond

[N15class]

Looking better all the time Simon. It's sometimes nice to have a break from the norm. Seams to improve the skill set.

[Simond]

Now, those of you who are familiar with the history of the Duchesses will wince, but there’s not a cotton wool cat’s chance in the fires of hell of modifying the tender.

 

A quick look at a very good reference source, http://finney7.co.uk/Downloads/LMS_Princess_Coronation_Tender_A3_Pages.pdf, shows that my tender is well built, quite like the drawings, and entirely wrong, and having looked at it, that’s the way it will stay.

 

That saves a lot of faffing. Now, I’ll set about making it look more like a “type B”.

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Thanks for the positive ratings, guys.

 

There is an obvious alternative to the tender dilemma - change the loco name & number - but the transfers are varnished, so we’d be in for a repaint, which would rather defeat the object.

 

No progress for a day or two, but if it brightens up, a run is on the cards tomorrow.

 

Best

Simon

[HeatonLodge40]

Really enjoyed this thread Simon cheers

 

Simon

[Simond]

Thanks Simon

 

It's always nice to have a comment, and I'm pleased that people seem to be enjoying what I'm doing.  Hopefully some of my meanderings will help someone do something!  

It's not actually raining, grey or overcast today, so I hope to get a bit of a run in at John's this evening, so will post photos a/o video in due course. 

But, I've still got a bit of "new-garden-season-fix-the-wiring" to do!

 

I have been following your modest magnificent efforts too   Can't wait to see Heaton Lodge in all its glory - it is perhaps the definition of "spectacular".

 

atb

Simon

[Simond]

A little run in the evening sun.

 

 

Best

Simon

[N15class]

The waggly bits work ok then.

[Simond]

 

Yep!

 

(And, it’s in forward gear and notched up!)

 

Best

Simon

Edited May 4, 2018 by Simond

[PAD]

It looks like a non streamlined tender as fitted to the non streamlined locomotives. I think DoH only ran in this guise with a de streamlined tender with slightly extended sides at the rear an with a ladder at the back.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[John K]

From the old Comet site.

There are options...

John K