Popular Post Chris Turnbull Posted January 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2018 And yet more... 44709 at Carnforth on 8th July. 44949 at Manchester Victoria on 17th April. 45073 and 45287 at Rose Grove on 10th July 45305 at Hoghton on 11th July Chris Turnbull 29 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev52A Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 @Chris You had an advantage over me of reaching locations out in the country to take action shots - at Hoghton, for example. (I don't know what the symbol for jealous is, or I would have used it here!) Did you have transport to get around? I was limited to spots near stations, as I was travelling by train at the time and returning to the Youth Hostel at Arnside every night. Cheers Trevor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 @Chris You had an advantage over me of reaching locations out in the country to take action shots - at Hoghton, for example. (I don't know what the symbol for jealous is, or I would have used it here!)Did you have transport to get around? I was limited to spots near stations, as I was travelling by train at the time and returning to the Youth Hostel at Arnside every night. I was sixteen at the time so had no transport (and little money either). My travels were financed by jobs in the school holidays which is why my photos are taken after I had worked and had some cash. The summer of '68 was when I took my O-levels (as they were then) and, as is still the case today, once you had completed your exams you left school until you returned in September in the 6th Form if you wished to stay on. I explained to my parents that if I waited until I had some money from a holiday job there would be no steam locos left to photograph so they very kindly lent me some cash which I later repaid. This allowed me to travel to Carnforth in early July where I wandered up the street opposite the station (Market Street?) and booked myself into the first establishment with rooms to let which just happened to be a pub although I wasn't really into beer like I later was. The first two days I was on my own but when I returned for my evening meal on the second day the landlady said she had another railway enthusiast staying there and she had put us on the same table. This chap was older than me and he had a car. I don't know what he thought of being lumbered with a spotty 16 year-old urchin but for me it was a godsend! It was he who offered to take me around with him hence the photos out in the sticks. I can't remember his name but this is him photographing 48448 at Rose Grove on the 10th July. If you recognise yourself I'd love to hear from you. Chris Turnbull 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Quick question which popped into my head when reading Chris's post above, when was it made public that the 3rd of August was to be the last day of normal steam operations? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2018 A 16 year old schoolboy, booked in a room in a pub miles from home, seated at a table with an older man who offers to take you out into the countryside. My, how times change. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) A 16 year old schoolboy, booked in a room in a pub miles from home, seated at a table with an older man who offers to take you out into the countryside. My, how times change. Mike. You were a brave boy, I certainly wouldn't've done it, times ain't changed that much. As a train-spotter kid around London in the early/mid 60's you still had to have yer wits about you, some times with friends, some times alone - then you had to be aware in the more 'seedier' areas, there were some strange characters about, but part of my growing-up was in the East-end. Edited January 24, 2018 by bike2steam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 How times change indeed and not always for the better. It never entered my head (nor, I suspect, my parents although they were probably glad to see the back of me) that anything could happen and, fortunately, it never did. I am not convinced that things are any worse today, its just that we seem to hear a lot more from certain, more excitable, sections of the media and, of course, the internet. I had done exactly the same thing the previous year as an even more spotty fifteen-year-old when I worked for few weeks and then took myself off to Carlisle where I spent an idyllic few days frequenting Kingmoor. The photos I took are black and white on a very simple Kodak camera (IIRC) with but two settings - sunny and dull! For this reason they are not wonderful but I suppose that I really must scan and post them one day. Here's a sample of the only one I have yet scanned. Sir Nigel Gresley entering Carlisle on 27th August 1967 Chris Turnbull 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Quick question which popped into my head when reading Chris's post above, when was it made public that the 3rd of August was to be the last day of normal steam operations? Jim A good question and I have just spent a fascinating hour wading through my Railway Worlds and Railway Magazines of the period. As far as I can tell there was no definitive announcement or, indeed, plan; it seemed to be a case of gradual attrition. For example, in "Motive power miscellany" in Railway World for June '68 it was reported "From the beginning of the new timetables on May 6th scheduled steam working on ordinary BR service trains was due to come to an end, although as this issue closed for press it was not clear whether this ideal would be achieved." This didn't happen. It goes on to say "Correspondents suggest also that steam traction in general could well come to an end in July instead of August. Sheds with steam power in the Liverpool Division were scheduled for closure on May 5th and the last steam depots looked as though they would be Carnforth, Lostock Hall and Rose Grove." Hence my rush to get up there from East Anglia ASAP! Chris Turnbull Edited January 24, 2018 by Chris Turnbull 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chris Turnbull Posted January 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2018 While I'm in internet mode I thought I might as well post today's selection of colour slides. 44758 at Carnforth on 9th July. 45206 at Manchester Victoria on 17th April. 48191 at Rose Grove on 10th July. 48765 at Hoghton on 11th July. Chris Turnbull 34 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Having left the UK in 1963, I was one of those who was able to wander on railway property without much attention as a couple of photos show. My question is, when did it all change? I remember track gangs without the orange of today, just sleeves turned up and a cap on their head. When was everything hidden behind sophisticated fences designed to keep everybody and every thing out. Sure, there were fences but nothing was impenetrable and rarely was one bothered by anybody. Occasionally a nerdy type would try and use authority and invariably the shed foreman could be miserable at times, but generally if you didn't cause trouble, there would be none from 'authorities'. So what happened and when? Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 There is no hard and fast date for the change in attitude; it is the gradual outcome of several factors which is well summed up by this entry in "Railway Depots" by Paul Smith and Philip Stuart published in 2010. Visiting the Depots One issue, trespass, remains unchanged in the letter but transformed in the spirit. The 1947 [british Locomotive Shed] Directory asserted in bold capitals that 'IT IN NO WAY GIVES AUTHORITY TO ENTER THESE PLACES', and that is equally true of this publication. But everyone knew that the Directory was in effect a shed-basher's bible. Few depots were seriously bothered by the regular incursion of youthful spotters, and being seen off the premises by an irate foreman was the worst to be expected. Not any more! Thanks to a combination of Health and Safety legislation, the threat of terrorist attacks on public transport and the fashion amongst teenagers [and older] for covering rolling stock with graffiti instead of writing numbers in notebooks, most depots now have palisade fencing, electronically controlled gates, CCTV and security guards. A few depots hold occasional open days, but as for unauthorised visits - don't even think about it! Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) In the early 1990’s it was still possible to shed bash, though Electric sheds were off limits for justifiable reason.. SL was a fortress, Toton wasn’t friendly either. My earliest memory of a shed bash, was repeat trips to Reddish as the 76’s were being withdrawn, and seeing grounded bodies around the place. Also have memories bunking Ayr which had withdrawn class 120’s. Between 1985-1993 I’ve done, according to my platform 5, I’ve got underlined: Inverness, Aberdeen, Haymarket, Eastfield, Carlisle, Crewe Diesel, Longsight, Newton Heath, Bescot, Tyseley, Marylebone, Westbury, Foster Yeoman, Llandore, Doncaster. It kind of rubbed off on me, outside the UK I’ve done George (South Africa), Cape Town, Oakland, Berkeley, Stockton (California), Akron (Ohio), Greensborough (North Carolina), Krakow Prezszow, Rzeszow, Rybnik, Oswiecim, Gdańsk, Bialystok, Chojnice and Bydgoszcz in Poland.. at Bydgoszcz I was given cab rides on an ET22 and an SU45 ! So outside the UK it’s still possible.. just need a camera, a smile and some UK rail magazines to leave behind. Edited January 24, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Having left the UK in 1963, I was one of those who was able to wander on railway property without much attention as a couple of photos show. My question is, when did it all change? I remember track gangs without the orange of today, just sleeves turned up and a cap on their head. When was everything hidden behind sophisticated fences designed to keep everybody and every thing out. Sure, there were fences but nothing was impenetrable and rarely was one bothered by anybody. Occasionally a nerdy type would try and use authority and invariably the shed foreman could be miserable at times, but generally if you didn't cause trouble, there would be none from 'authorities'. So what happened and when? Brian. Two important events brought a lot of the change - privatisation brought the concept of commercial confidentiality and 9-11 seems to have freaked the American authorities and that tainted the UK - with a period when taking photographs on stations was strongly resisted and even photography in the streets could be challenged by the Police. Things have generally eased, but the fences are now very high. Ruined my hobby! As to early age train spotting, I was still at primary school when I would use my priviledge pass to travel from Staines up to Euston and Kings Cross (change at Richmond and Willesden) or via Staines West to Paddington. I can clearly remember the introduction of the 40s and Pacifics at Euston (City of London turning at Camden and Duke of Gloucester on ECS anyone!) and lots of Steam at KX and even have some damaged photos of same. By 15 I was using the free Privs to go to Newcastle, Sheffield, Carlisle, Manchester etc. I'd have had kittens if my kids had wanted to do anything similar - although they have been more adventurous since. Personally I've never deliberately visited a loco shed. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Personally I've never deliberately visited a loco shed. How do you visit a shed accidentally? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2018 Well we once visited a wagon works accidentally! Am sure Paul would have approved but on a South Wales depot bash mid 70s we managed to pitch up at Margam wagon works rather than the loco depot.... Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Nothing could compare with the 'shock, and awe' a young lad could experienced on his first ever visit to Old Oak Common sheds, that massive building with four turntables each fully surrounded by simmering steam giants. A memory etched in the brain, still vivid nearly 60 years later, and that rarity of surprises, a friendly shed foreman !? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Two important events brought a lot of the change - privatisation brought the concept of commercial confidentiality and 9-11 seems to have freaked the American authorities and that tainted the UK - with a period when taking photographs on stations was strongly resisted and even photography in the streets could be challenged by the Police. Things have generally eased, but the fences are now very high. Ruined my hobby! Paul It ruined mine as well. The first time I encountered the problem was in 2004, and I was completely unprepared, shocked and insulted by the behaviour of someone who purported to be station security. I had been visiting Kings Cross intermittently for 45 years, watching the railway activity and taking photos; therefore I had no reservations about taking pictures of a few 91s and HSTs from the platform end with my new digital camera on that afternoon. Suddenly a member of staff came up and asked me what I was doing, and then told me I was not allowed to take photographs and would I accompany him back to the main concourse. As someone (then) in his 50s, I felt like a naughty little kid and could not quite believe what was happening. By the time I had reached the city end of the platform I had decided that if that was the way adult photographers were going to be treated by railway staff, then they could stuff their precious network where the sun don't shine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I must admit that I've had little trouble other than trying to see through/over/around the plethora of fencing that now abounds. The only time I can recall being approached by a member of staff was some ten years ago at Norwich where I was checking the window sizes of a class 156 against the Met-Camm drawings I had with me for my model of the unit - and I must confess that I probably did look a bit suspicious. As soon as he saw the drawings and I told him what I was doing and why he was more than helpful. Chris Turnbull 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) It ruined mine as well. The first time I encountered the problem was in 2004, and I was completely unprepared, shocked and insulted by the behaviour of someone who purported to be station security. I had been visiting Kings Cross intermittently for 45 years, watching the railway activity and taking photos; therefore I had no reservations about taking pictures of a few 91s and HSTs from the platform end with my new digital camera on that afternoon. Suddenly a member of staff came up and asked me what I was doing, and then told me I was not allowed to take photographs and would I accompany him back to the main concourse. As someone (then) in his 50s, I felt like a naughty little kid and could not quite believe what was happening. By the time I had reached the city end of the platform I had decided that if that was the way adult photographers were going to be treated by railway staff, then they could stuff their precious network where the sun don't shine. I can sympathise with the above. In 2016 I went along to Derby station to see 6201. A station 'supervisor(?)' came along Platform 1 moving everybody away from the safety of the bay platform at the south end claiming it was a highly used access way for NR vehicles (not one vehicle was seen at the time and if one did come along the driver would probably have stopped to look at the steam engine anyway!). He then proceeded to move would be photographers away from the engine on Platform 1. The only person putting themselves anywhere near any danger was the man himself as he pranced along the platform edge with his back to the moving engine ushering people away. Grrrrr. Edited January 25, 2018 by Poor Old Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I can sympathise with the above. In 2016 I went along to Derby station to see 6201. A station 'supervisor(?)' came along Platform 1 moving everybody away from the safety of the bay platform at the south end claiming it was a highly used access way for NR vehicles (not one vehicle was seen at the time and if one did come along the driver would probably have stopped to look at the steam engine anyway!). He then proceeded to move would be photographers away from the engine on Platform 1. The only person putting themselves anywhere near any danger was the man himself as he pranced along the platform edge with his back to the moving engine ushering people away. Grrrrr. Did any one stop him, and ask/ sorry-demand for proof of identity?? Edited January 25, 2018 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev52A Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 I was sixteen at the time so had no transport (and little money either). My travels were financed by jobs in the school holidays which is why my photos are taken after I had worked and had some cash. The summer of '68 was when I took my O-levels (as they were then) and, as is still the case today, once you had completed your exams you left school until you returned in September in the 6th Form if you wished to stay on. I explained to my parents that if I waited until I had some money from a holiday job there would be no steam locos left to photograph so they very kindly lent me some cash which I later repaid. This allowed me to travel to Carnforth in early July where I wandered up the street opposite the station (Market Street?) and booked myself into the first establishment with rooms to let which just happened to be a pub although I wasn't really into beer like I later was. The first two days I was on my own but when I returned for my evening meal on the second day the landlady said she had another railway enthusiast staying there and she had put us on the same table. This chap was older than me and he had a car. I don't know what he thought of being lumbered with a spotty 16 year-old urchin but for me it was a godsend! It was he who offered to take me around with him hence the photos out in the sticks. I can't remember his name but this is him photographing 48448 at Rose Grove on the 10th July. If you recognise yourself I'd love to hear from you. 680710 Rose Grove 48448 8.1.jpg Chris Turnbull We seem to have been kindred spirits, Chris. I was also still at school at the end of steam, although in I took my 'O' Levels in 1967 so I must be a year older than you. I also relied on my parents to fund my outings, God bless them. I usually found fellow spotters to be decent enough people. Once at Carlisle I met a fellow photographer at Upperby who gave me a lift in his car to Kingmoor, which resulted in me getting a cab ride in 70038 back to the station! Similarly at Shap, an enthusiast drove me to Dillicar to see locos picking up water on the troughs - quite an experience! Still enjoying your colour photos, by the way, especially the action shots at Hoghton, which I have located on Google earth and am trying to find the exact spots! The lighting on one of your latest offerings of 48765 was super. Cheers Trevor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) How do you visit a shed accidentally? When looking for wagons! I've visited several as can be seen on my site - Toton, Tinsley, Grangemouth and Motherwell come quickly to mind Mind I wish I had taken more notice of Grangemouth which had the air of a between the wars steam shed! Paul Oh yes Margam was another Edited January 25, 2018 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Grangemouth was the last shed I ever bunked, mid 1990s and a lovely Summer Saturday Afternoon, only one old caretaker on site - "Can I take some Photos" - "No Bother, just let me know when you are leaving" Eastfield was always OK on a Sunday, not midweek or Saturdays, the foreman at Ayr got a bit of a reputation in later years too, would chase you if you were even hanging around at the gate by the football ground Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 We seem to have been kindred spirits, Chris. I was also still at school at the end of steam, although in I took my 'O' Levels in 1967 so I must be a year older than you. I also relied on my parents to fund my outings, God bless them. I usually found fellow spotters to be decent enough people. Once at Carlisle I met a fellow photographer at Upperby who gave me a lift in his car to Kingmoor, which resulted in me getting a cab ride in 70038 back to the station! Similarly at Shap, an enthusiast drove me to Dillicar to see locos picking up water on the troughs - quite an experience! Still enjoying your colour photos, by the way, especially the action shots at Hoghton, which I have located on Google earth and am trying to find the exact spots! The lighting on one of your latest offerings of 48765 was super. Cheers Trevor It was Chapel Lane just where it says "Long Barn" on this website: http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=53.7388&lon=-2.5753&layers=11&right=BingHyb Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Here's the next tranche of photos: 45390 crossing Warton Road overbridge at Carnforth on 9th July. 45394 headed westwards at Hoghton on 11th July. This is taken from the farm track overbridge looking east towards Chapel Lane overbridge in the distance. 44803 at Manchester Victoria on 17th April. 45156 enters Rose Grove shed on 10th July. Chris Turnbull 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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