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I’m sure it will be, I’ll kept looking at it. Problem is I don’t really know what cv 153 or 154 do!

Richard

They alter part of the PID characteristics of the motor. Explain briefly in the TTS manual. A pair of CVs for each motor algorithm option.

Rob

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Richard have you tried contacting Hornby customer services about this?  I expect they will be keen to know of problems so that they can rectify them rather than leave them and damage the reputation of their product.  From other threads it would seem that they have been receptive to contact.  Just a thought.

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Looks smoth enough once it gets going, but is it not possible to correct the moving off? Will let you know how I get on with mine once I have made the changes.

Bill.

Hi Richard,

Have changed the CV settings you suggested and my Bachmann 37 now moves off slightly better than the one in your video.

I used your settings along with the Hornby suggested ones in a Vitrains 37 and 47 and they are as smooth as silk,both of which have the 20 x 40 base speaker fitted.

Bill.

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I take the view that these chips being roughly a  third of the price of a Loksound  or Zimo I can afford to experiment and am prepared to compromise on functionality and performance in order to get more loco's sound fitted than budget constraints would otherwise allow. I am upgrading the speakers as a matter of course so in the worst case scenario (a chip blowing) I will only be £35 down and have a DCC sound ready loco that just needs a chip fitting.

 

So with this in mind I have this weekend fitted a TTS 47 into a Heljan Lion and a TTS 60 into 'Kestral'. I am aware that both of these loco's have mechanisms that in theory  exceed the maximum output of a TTS chip but my loco's never work flat out and max load on my layout is 8 coaches or 20 wagons  on minimum 36 inch curves so not likely to strain the motor.

 

Results of test running so far are impressive. The TTS 47 in Lion is set  up with Cv150 set to 1 (ie the alternative 'linear' speed table). This suits the loco better as it suffered from juddering with the default set up. The downside of the alternative speed table is that transitions of the first 10 or so speed steps are less smooth (but acceptable in my opinion).

 

The TTS 60 in Kestral is as supplied (ie CV150 is 0). This is very smooth from take-off  - almost Zimo like. In deference to the stated peak load of 0.8amp I am opting not to use the lights as they are far too bright anyway and according to my NCE powercab make current demand jump  by 0.5amp.

 

Anyone horrified by the class 60 sounds in Kestral  better stop reading now if they haven't already - next up is a TTS 37 in Bachmanns  Ivatt 10001 then a TTS 31 in a Heljan Co Bo……..

 

Speakers are a Zimo dumbo  and YouChoos in Lion and a dumbo and iphone speaker in Kestral.

 

TTS – cheap as chips sound for the masses – thanks Hornby J

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I haven't to be fair, I'll give it a go

 

Richard

Hi Richard

 

I've just fitted a cl31 TTS decoder in a Hornby Cl31- NOT the railroad version. The default aligorathom set was completely wrong resulting in a crazy stutter, changing this to the alternative set has cured the stutter but, as with you, the loco has no low speed control, goes from 0-20mph in one jump. This is very frustrating and, frankly, very dissapointing despite the price incentive. Please let us all know what Hornby have to say and if this is cureable.

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As I have remarked in other threads my experience has been that the motor control in these TTS decoders suits some motors very well, and others not at all, although even the 'best' performance can't come close to that afforded by the likes of Zimo. The adjustment parameters don't seem capable of offering much leeway compared with those found in others. In such cases where decent motor control just isn't possible then 'piggybacking' the TTS decoders  - treating them as a sound function only type - and using another to perform motor control - seems the easiest way out, always provided of course that there is the space for two decoders. I have done this with a TTS +Zimo MX600 in a Bachmann diesel which could only jack-rabbit with the TTS alone whatever the parameters used, and it works well. The total cost is still far less than a 'full fat' Zimo sound chip, and you can always change the speaker to another type/size. That the MX600 was already installed meant that it only cost me the TTS decoder anyway.

 

Whether this is actually worth all the extra hassle is a moot point and will depend on the individual, I did it simply by way of experiment. I very much doubt that having used 4 TTS diesel types in various locos I will buy any more. Instead I will use Zimo at a slower rate and probably replace those I already have at some stage.

 

Izzy

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Hi Richard

 

I've just fitted a cl31 TTS decoder in a Hornby Cl31- NOT the railroad version. The default aligorathom set was completely wrong resulting in a crazy stutter, changing this to the alternative set has cured the stutter but, as with you, the loco has no low speed control, goes from 0-20mph in one jump. This is very frustrating and, frankly, very dissapointing despite the price incentive. Please let us all know what Hornby have to say and if this is cureable.

Have you removed (or at least disconnected) the fan? If not I would do that first. The TTS can be 'temperamental' at times  - using the NCE Powercab 'Horn' button seems to set loco's running of at speed sometimes. My solution is not to use the horn button. My main range 31 (D5511 - dates from around 2010 I think) was initially juddery with TTS . It is a lot smoother with CV150 set to 1 but my current discovery is that having set CV150 back to 0 via POM it now is smooth at default settings. I have no idea whether this has changed another CV or whether this improvement is permanent (remember I said TTS is temperamental but then so is the Powercab!) but at the moment D5511 is a fine runner.

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Have you removed (or at least disconnected) the fan? If not I would do that first. The TTS can be 'temperamental' at times  - using the NCE Powercab 'Horn' button seems to set loco's running of at speed sometimes. My solution is not to use the horn button. My main range 31 (D5511 - dates from around 2010 I think) was initially juddery with TTS . It is a lot smoother with CV150 set to 1 but my current discovery is that having set CV150 back to 0 via POM it now is smooth at default settings. I have no idea whether this has changed another CV or whether this improvement is permanent (remember I said TTS is temperamental but then so is the Powercab!) but at the moment D5511 is a fine runner.

Thanks Mike.

Yes I've removed the fan assembly (in order to get the spkr in). Will possibly give this a try.

with the 31 if I remember rightly I set 151 to 255 and 152 to 1 and it worked fine.

Hornby were helpful but didn’t give me any information that I hadn’t already seen on here

Richard

Will give this a go Richard, many thanks.

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Hi Richard

 

I've just fitted a cl31 TTS decoder in a Hornby Cl31- NOT the railroad version. The default aligorathom set was completely wrong resulting in a crazy stutter, changing this to the alternative set has cured the stutter but, as with you, the loco has no low speed control, goes from 0-20mph in one jump. This is very frustrating and, frankly, very dissapointing despite the price incentive. Please let us all know what Hornby have to say and if this is cureable.

Some months ago I fitted a TTS to my Hornby "full fat" (not Railroad) 31 110. Fan removed.

 

It took a lot of experimenting to get the CVs just right, but I found it really worth the time and effort.  I can honestly say that the motor control I'm getting is now every bit as good as my Zimos. And at £36 each I'm happy to fit a few more 31's 47's and 60's to boost the fleet.

 

With NCE Powercab, I ended up with the following on the 31:

 

CV3 = 100

CV4 = 20

CV10 = 128

CV150 = 0

CV151 = 20

CV152 = 0

CV153 = 80

CV154 = 20

 

I'm now fitting TTS to a Bachmann 47, and have also got it super smooth, but you do need patience (and a nice long program track!). I also found it benificial not to have the sound on while tweaking the CV's. That way you can actually hear any very slight motor juddering or buzzing so you can then fine tune even better.

 

One problem I am still having with TTS though is that I find them too loud!  Even turning down CV182 to 1 (minimum volume) it's too much for my small layout room. I like a "scale" sound!  I've resorted to laying a bit of tissue over the speake!  Needless to say this bodge is not ideal!

 

Could anyone advise if a quieter speaker is availabe - if there is such a thing - please?

 

CDF

Edited by cravensdmufan
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Have you removed (or at least disconnected) the fan? If not I would do that first. The TTS can be 'temperamental' at times  - using the NCE Powercab 'Horn' button seems to set loco's running of at speed sometimes. My solution is not to use the horn button. My main range 31 (D5511 - dates from around 2010 I think) was initially juddery with TTS . It is a lot smoother with CV150 set to 1 but my current discovery is that having set CV150 back to 0 via POM it now is smooth at default settings. I have no idea whether this has changed another CV or whether this improvement is permanent (remember I said TTS is temperamental but then so is the Powercab!) but at the moment D5511 is a fine runner.

 

I found that CV151 and 152 which both should have been 8 were not right out of the box.  The Lenz 100 would not reliably reprogram them.  However, the gaugemaster loco doctor that i now have programs them a treat

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So with this in mind I have this weekend fitted a TTS 47 into a Heljan Lion and a TTS 60 into 'Kestral'. I am aware that both of these loco's have mechanisms that in theory  exceed the maximum output of a TTS chip but my loco's never work flat out and max load on my layout is 8 coaches or 20 wagons  on minimum 36 inch curves so not likely to strain the motor.

 

 

Brave man!  I think this is the first account of TTS in a Heljan that i have read.  The motor output on the chip is protected, so in theory, keeping the lights off should stop it going pop

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Some months ago I fitted a TTS to my Hornby "full fat" (not Railroad) 31 110. Fan removed.

 

It took a lot of experimenting to get the CVs just right, but I found it really worth the time and effort.  I can honestly say that the motor control I'm getting is now every bit as good as my Zimos. And at £36 each I'm happy to fit a few more 31's 47's and 60's to boost the fleet.

 

With NCE Powercab, I ended up with the following on the 31:

 

CV3 = 100

CV4 = 20

CV10 = 128

CV150 = 0

CV151 = 20

CV152 = 0

CV153 = 80

CV154 = 20

 

I'm now fitting TTS to a Bachmann 47, and have also got it super smooth, but you do need patience (and a nice long program track!). I also found it benificial not to have the sound on while tweaking the CV's. That way you can actually hear any very slight motor juddering or buzzing so you can then fine tune even better.

 

One problem I am still having with TTS though is that I find them too loud!  Even turning down CV182 to 1 (minimum volume) it's too much for my small layout room. I like a "scale" sound!  I've resorted to laying a bit of tissue over the speake!  Needless to say this bodge is not ideal!

 

Could anyone advise if a quieter speaker is availabe - if there is such a thing - please?

 

CDF

Hi,

Did you use the same CV changes on the Bachmann 47 as you did on the CL31?

Bill.

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Hi,

Did you use the same CV changes on the Bachmann 47 as you did on the CL31?

Bill.

Only purchased decoder at the weekend and stll tweaking the 47 Bill - the CV's are different,  I'll post values when I have it perfect  But it's running super smooth.  I just need to get accelleration and decellerations just right.

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With NCE Powercab, I ended up with the following on the 31:

 

CV3 = 100

CV4 = 20

CV10 = 128

CV150 = 0

CV151 = 20

CV152 = 0

CV153 = 80

CV154 = 20

 

 

 

Perhaps i have this wrong, but from what i read in the instructions, there were two motor profiles, switchable on CV150.  With CV150 at 0 (default), CV 151 and 152 controlled the motor and were set to 8.  With CV 150 at 1, the other motor profile is used, controllable on CV's 153 and 154.  I think!

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Perhaps i have this wrong, but from what i read in the instructions, there were two motor profiles, switchable on CV150.  With CV150 at 0 (default), CV 151 and 152 controlled the motor and were set to 8.  With CV 150 at 1, the other motor profile is used, controllable on CV's 153 and 154.  I think!

Yet, that's what I read too. But will give these values a go, can't do any harm.

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In case it helps anyone - I found the only way to get my Hornby Class 60 to run smoothly was to go to motor controls CV 150 at 1 and then to shut off the Back EMF on CV10 completely.

 

Chri

Interesting. This is the only TTS chip I have so far starts both sound and movement at speed step 1 - all the others in my possession (classes 31, 40 and 47) start at step 2. As I said above I fitted the class 60 chip in a Heljan Kestral and I find it is the best straight from the box. My theory was that the cv settings of the 60 chip were factory set to match the finer mechanism and greater weight of the Hornby 60 model - hence the good running obtained with the Heljan model. Your experience suggest that this isnt the case.

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OK folks, here are the CV values I ended up with for TTS decoder in Bachmann Class 47:

 

CV3 = 75

CV4 = 20

CV10 = 128

CV150 = 0

CV151 = 20

CV152 = 16

CV153 = 215

CV154 = 115

 

CV182 = 1 (minimum sound, but still TOO LOUD for my small layout room!).

 

Another trick that I have found useful, in addition to what I said in my post #42, is to attach my freest rolling wagon to the loco and watch when the loco is moving slowly.  When there is no juddering between loco and wagon you have then nailed the algorithms!  Worth spending the time adjusting.  Write values down as you go.

 

My Bachmann 47 is really super smooth and controllable now with TTS - really happy with it.

 

Used an NCE Powercab.  Bachmann 36-559 adapter to convert 21 pin to 8 pin which just fits.

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Some months ago I fitted a TTS to my Hornby "full fat" (not Railroad) 31 110. Fan removed.

 

It took a lot of experimenting to get the CVs just right, but I found it really worth the time and effort.  I can honestly say that the motor control I'm getting is now every bit as good as my Zimos. And at £36 each I'm happy to fit a few more 31's 47's and 60's to boost the fleet.

 

With NCE Powercab, I ended up with the following on the 31:

 

CV3 = 100

CV4 = 20

CV10 = 128

CV150 = 0

CV151 = 20

CV152 = 0

CV153 = 80

CV154 = 20

 

I'm now fitting TTS to a Bachmann 47, and have also got it super smooth, but you do need patience (and a nice long program track!). I also found it benificial not to have the sound on while tweaking the CV's. That way you can actually hear any very slight motor juddering or buzzing so you can then fine tune even better.

 

One problem I am still having with TTS though is that I find them too loud!  Even turning down CV182 to 1 (minimum volume) it's too much for my small layout room. I like a "scale" sound!  I've resorted to laying a bit of tissue over the speake!  Needless to say this bodge is not ideal!

 

Could anyone advise if a quieter speaker is availabe - if there is such a thing - please?

 

CDF

Well I've given these CV settings a go in my class 31. Sorry but they don't do it for me. Still only moves off on speed step 2, not the control I want or expect, and still stuttering badly mid speed range. As with a lot of other people on here on various threads I'm very dissapointed.

 

In my opinion there are a number of issues here.

 

1. These decoders are cheap -yes but are they fit for purpose?

2. They are supposed to be "entry" sound decoders, hopefully bringing in more to this side of the hobby. Why so complicated to get a smooth running loco?

3. Do Hornby actually try these decoders in locos before they release them on the market?

4. They do not seem to share characteristics with other leading sound decoders eg. No start, mid, max speed settings just infernal algorithms.

 

This is the first TTS decoder I have purchased. Sadly it is likely to be the last. I am not a newcomer to the hobby or market, I've used DCC for over 12 years and I've always, previously bought either Zimo or ESU sound decoders. Never had a problem, easy to fit, easy to set up, faultless smooth running etc. Etc. Maybe it's just a case of you get what you pay for but if these problems, encountered by many with TTS decoders, are anything to go by I'm sure it will it will put many people off.

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Well I've given these CV settings a go in my class 31. Sorry but they don't do it for me. Still only moves off on speed step 2, not the control I want or expect, and still stuttering badly mid speed range. As with a lot of other people on here on various threads I'm very dissapointed.

 

In my opinion there are a number of issues here.

 

1. These decoders are cheap -yes but are they fit for purpose?

2. They are supposed to be "entry" sound decoders, hopefully bringing in more to this side of the hobby. Why so complicated to get a smooth running loco?

3. Do Hornby actually try these decoders in locos before they release them on the market?

4. They do not seem to share characteristics with other leading sound decoders eg. No start, mid, max speed settings just infernal algorithms.

 

This is the first TTS decoder I have purchased. Sadly it is likely to be the last. I am not a newcomer to the hobby or market, I've used DCC for over 12 years and I've always, previously bought either Zimo or ESU sound decoders. Never had a problem, easy to fit, easy to set up, faultless smooth running etc. Etc. Maybe it's just a case of you get what you pay for but if these problems, encountered by many with TTS decoders, are anything to go by I'm sure it will it will put many people off.

That's a pity.  Sorry to read you still got problems.  I'm now wondering if you have a dodgy chip.

 

I can only reiterate my own experience.  I have fitted 4 TTS now.  All super smooth after careful adjustments.

 

Here's one of mine in action:

 

 

- and that's when I first got it.

 

No two locos are the same.  I have done 2 detailed Hornby 31's and CVs I ended up with were slightly different on each. You need to spend time on the program track - whether you think it worth it is up to you.

 

I have 20+ locos fitted with ESU Loksounds and Zimos.  Yet I have not been disappointed with TTS.

 

I suspect the TTS stand alone are set up in the factory to be plug and play into Hornby's own (usually Railroad) mechanisms.  So fitting them into different mechanisms is always going to require fine tuning.  And that doesn't just appy to TTS. Had a similar situationt with ESU Loksound from Coastal DCC.  Took me ages to get it to run just right in a Bachmann 47.  But patience paid off in the end.  Frustrating, I know!   

 

Maybe the type of DCC system makes a difference?  I know it shouldn't do.  I'm using NCE Powecab.  Maybe I've been lucky in that my particular set up matches.

 

I'm getting a Class 37 TTS tomorrow to go in a Bachmann.

Edited by cravensdmufan
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Another of my Class 31s fitted with TTS

 

 

Video taken on an old iPhone.  I can't get the hang of holding the phone steady whilst trying to control the Powercab!

 

Anyway, it's another sound conversion that I'm happy with.

 

Probably won't post any more TTS videos on here, but will on my YouTube.  Hopefully Classes 37, 47 and 60 next week.

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It's a bit cruel, but if you substitute the word 'toy' for the words 'entry level' the role of TTS decoders becomes clearer.

John

Sounds much like the unfounded predjudices heard in my youth and ever since.

...Fords are awful - er no I havent actually owned one to prove it.

...Vauxhalls rust faster than Fiats - unfortunately used to be true in the 50s/60s.

...I dont like peas or any other food type - because I havent tried them.

...Amstrad and Alba electronics were rubbish - also true with the claim due mostly from using the customer as quality control.

...All Lidl and Aldi hardware is rubbish - only some of it. Some of it is good value and does the job well.

..ad infinitum.

 

It boils down to when does a trainset become a model railway, as to what kit you need and use and how much you are prepared to pay for it. What suits me may not suit another and vice-versa.

Rob

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