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Bachmann Parrot Wagon


Garethp8873
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Presumably these were used to transport tanks from the factories to the southern ports for export or was that role reserved for the rectank wagons?

 

I'd imagine it was whatever was around at the time. I don't see why not personally.

 

Was able to finally see the catalogue image of the Parrot wagon in LMS livery today. Looks good but need to get some done as ex-Midland Railway examples too. Bar the LNWR and Midland Railway, did any other companies inherit these wagons?

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The Caledonian hired around 180 which I believe were later sold to the LMS. The CR examples had bolsters fitted which indicates they were intended to replace some of the large number of 4 wheel single bolster wagons dating from the 1880s.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...
22 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

Now the Warflats are nearly with us, here's hoping to soon see the Parrot Wagons follow suit...  :)

Very soon this month, according Rails update mail i got, hope the sheeted WW1 tank looks good.

The Artitec Mk iv would look great on it , only too small scale 1:87, but very detailed resin models 

artitec mk iv tank.jpg

artitec mk iv.jpg

Edited by Cor-onGRT4
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33 minutes ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

Very soon this month, according Rails update mail i got, hope the sheeted WW1 tank looks good.

The Artitec Mk iv would look great on it , only too small scale 1:87, but very detailed resin models 

artitec mk iv tank.jpg

artitec mk iv.jpg

 

Planning on four of the LMS Parrot wagons as I want to represent the LNWR and Midland Railway examples in their LMS pre and post-36 liveries. I am also wondering if this wagon can be used to represent the Caledonian ones too?

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1 minute ago, The Johnster said:

I think the War Office was a 1914-18 thing, and the War Department 1939-45, but am happy to be corrected!

'War Office', until 1964, was the Ministry responsible for the armed services. It subsequently became the Ministry of Defence.'

War Department' was originally a parallel organisation, until the Crimean War, when it was absorbed. When they were separate organisations, we apparently had, at one time, a Minister for War and a Minister at War.

The use of the abbreviated form was probably a time(and paint) -saving measure.

'

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Referring to P227 of "Caledonian railway wagons" by Mike Williams either 192 or 104 were hired by the CR. If so they were designated D126, but seem to be redesignated as D19 by the LMS. 

 

It would be interesting to see a picture to determine whether the D19/126 is similar to the one pictured above. 

 

They were built by contractors, so there may have been variations under a general diagram number. 

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2 hours ago, Dave John said:

Referring to P227 of "Caledonian railway wagons" by Mike Williams either 192 or 104 were hired by the CR. If so they were designated D126, but seem to be redesignated as D19 by the LMS. 

 

It would be interesting to see a picture to determine whether the D19/126 is similar to the one pictured above. 

 

They were built by contractors, so there may have been variations under a general diagram number. 

LMS diag 19 is for 412 wagons, and mentions that this is MR and includes "Northern division" wagons - which I assume also includes GSWR as well as CR. The number of 192 for the CR is very close to my count of the 3xxxxx numbered ones which was 191 in 1951. Not sure what you mean by the photo above, the LMS ones are, of course, fitted with Bolsters. However, I have had an email from a well known model producer that only the LNWR ones (not included in this 412 total and differing in the bolsters) carried the pre-group lettering. So perhaps not suitable for a CR layout apart from in the original guise as a Ministry owned and lettered Parrot. 

 

Paul

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I'd agree about the livery Paul, given that they were hired by the CR at a time of shortage I doubt that they would have been repainted, possibly just a CR number painted on the frame. 

 

The photo I was referring to is the prototype model posted by Midland Mole. The CR added bolsters ( paid for by the WD ) but I was wondering about the rail jacks. Would those have been left in place given that the wagons were hired ? 

 

If I could find a picture of them running on the CR, or in a CR area in early LMS days that might help. 

 

Since I converted a ROD 2-8-0 to the condition of one hired in during the same period ( mainly since the Bachmann model was going cheap ! ) it might be nice to have a parrot or two behind it as a cameo if the price was sensible. 

 

 

 

Edited by Dave John
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I have seen a picture of one in LNWR service still displaying full WD markings although without the French ETAT branding that the Bachmann photograph shows. Some tanks were built in Glasgow so I was planning on a short rake of them, not sure if they went south by the CR, NBR or GSWR though. 

 

Ross

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On 07/09/2019 at 11:31, Garethp8873 said:

My idea for doing one of the Caledonian examples came from P.228, Plate 14.11 but I'd rather double check before spending :)

That photograph, and the two in Essery, R, J, (1983) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 2, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 255-9. of diag 19 show three different styles of LMS lettering, as the years passed; all with the four bolsters. Quite interesting that the 1942 photo shows it written BOGIE BOLSTER B which I believe became the code for both these and the WW2 ones which passed to BR (shared with the bolster fitted Warflats).

And another couple of the diag 18 here https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warflat/eb0c67ec also showing the large LMS but on a darker grey than the one in Essery. These are without the bolsters - but all sources say the bolsters are removable. None have the jacks remaining.

 

Paul

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4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

That photograph, and the two in Essery, R, J, (1983) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 2, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 255-9. of diag 19 show three different styles of LMS lettering, as the years passed; all with the four bolsters. Quite interesting that the 1942 photo shows it written BOGIE BOLSTER B which I believe became the code for both these and the WW2 ones which passed to BR (shared with the bolster fitted Warflats).

And another couple of the diag 18 here https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warflat/eb0c67ec also showing the large LMS but on a darker grey than the one in Essery. These are without the bolsters - but all sources say the bolsters are removable. None have the jacks remaining.

 

Paul

 

The LMS version of the Parrot has been done in accordance with the photo on your website :)

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On 06/09/2019 at 17:36, Fat Controller said:

'War Office', until 1964, was the Ministry responsible for the armed services. It subsequently became the Ministry of Defence.'

War Department' was originally a parallel organisation, until the Crimean War, when it was absorbed. When they were separate organisations, we apparently had, at one time, a Minister for War and a Minister at War.

The use of the abbreviated form was probably a time(and paint) -saving measure.

'

 

Well actually, No. The Wikipedia article is badly written.

 

The War Dept, which was renamed the War Office in 1857, was responsible for the Army, whilst the Admiralty was responsible for the Royal Navy, and in 1918 the Air Ministry was created to manage the newly established Royal Air Force. The War Office, Admiralty and Air Ministry were amalgamated in 1964 as the Ministry of Defence. Despite having had a name change in 1857 the term "War Department" continued to be used well into at least the 1960's.

 

The "broad arrow"  /|\ was the symbol of crown ownership, and was seen on everything from convict uniforms, tools and screws to survey marks. Therefore the W/|\D, was the British Army symbol of ownership for equipment, apparel and so forth. Back in the 1850's, the use of the WD symbol and not changing it to "WO" was probably highly logical, the army had a lot of artillery, other weapons, equipment and uniforms in storage with the symbol and all of the governments suppliers already had stamps, punches, printing templates and masks to produce the symbol. It would have taken time to change the punches, stamps, templates and masks across every UK supplier, and recover the old symbols to prevent counterfeiting, therefore why bother changing.

 

Each of the Empire Dominions also had a version of the /|\, Australia D/|\D (Defence Dept), Canada C surrounding the /|\, India an I below the /|\ and so on.

 

The term WDLR was never officially used, and certainly didn't apply to each of the light railways in Army zones of the BEF during WW1. The first time I have found it in literature was in WJK Davies 1967 book "Light Railways of WW1' where part way through he started using the term. Though it is not historically accurate, it is understandable that hobbyists started using it as the W/|\D was on one side end of the wagon, indicating army ownership, and the registration code and number, LR xxxx, were on the other end.

 

Cheers,

Chris

Edited by Chris hndrsn
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