Does anyone struggling with "the great vision" of their layout?

[OnTheBranchline]

Hi everyone,

 

I've being planning my future layout for when the future Mrs SWIMBO and I buy a house together, but I'm having trouble actually visualizing it. I know some of the things that I would like to have on it but it's more of a checklist. I'm not sure if it's just me or the fact that I don't have the railway space for me to imagine it.

 

Does anyone else run into this problem?

[Miss Prism]

I know some of the things that I would like to have on it but it's more of a checklist.

 

That's good. Write it down. A list of 20 things maybe.

 

A week later, strike out 10 of them, leaving 10.

 

Another week later, strike out another 5.

 

Build your visualisation by focusing only on the remaining 5.

 

Less is more.

[Zomboid]

I had a great vision for my layout once. In fact I've had a few.

But then I realised that I didn't have the time or space to build it, so I started from the other end, and looked at what I could build in the time & space I had available. And it's been highly rewarding...

[Tony Davis]

Yes, me.

 

Still struggle with it but, one good thing is that I have learned to stop buying stuff only to realise that it isn't what I want at all, and thus incurring mighty wrath from SWMBO

[Chimer]

I had a great vision for my layout once. In fact I've had a few.

But then I realised that I didn't have the time or space to build it, so I started from the other end, and looked at what I could build in the time & space I had available. And it's been highly rewarding...

 

I too have had many visions of how I might achieve what I think I know I want.  In my case they frequently don't survive their first encounter with track planning software, when actual practicalities come into play.

 

Chris

[JST]

Two things I discovered with my current layout:-

1 You will never get what you really wanted into the space you have. Somehow the baseboard shrinks or the track gets bigger.

2 Even with decent planning software it doesn't necessarily work or look right when you come to laying track.

 

In the end I built the baseboard to fit the space I had, started with a wish list design and modified it when I started laying track. Probably not the best way to do it but it is working out OK for me.

[Junctionmad]

 

 

2 Even with decent planning software it doesn't necessarily work or look right when you come to laying track.

err , yes it does , if you do it right.

 

The last thing you should so is build baseboards without a track layout in mind.  

[Junctionmad]

Hi everyone,

 

I've being planning my future layout for when the future Mrs SWIMBO and I buy a house together, but I'm having trouble actually visualizing it. I know some of the things that I would like to have on it but it's more of a checklist. I'm not sure if it's just me or the fact that I don't have the railway space for me to imagine it.

 

Does anyone else run into this problem?

The big issue is are you attempting  to model a prototype , or are you freelancing a layout, freeloading seems to generate totally incongruent layouts in many cases , with very non prototypical running 

[DCB]

Most people are constrained by the space available.  However with a clean slate..

I think the first thing to decide is what you want your trains to do.  Do you want essentially a highly detailed diorama with occasional movements, is the layout just a backdrop to your rolling stock collection,  do you like watching trains go by,  do you want it to operate like a real railway and how much input do you want into train running.   

Many people have terminus to traverser layouts which involve huge amounts of fiddling with stock off scene, (which would drive me mad) others have reverse loops so trains just come back or hidden sidings where they can shunt happily (like I do).

There is a definite limit to the amount of time one can spend modelling, (168 hours per week.) so for a really large layout you may have to enlist help or compromise on scenery, and there can be a real issue with the sheer amount of time small scale trains take to get round big layouts, ("Where has the 42XX on coal empties got to,") especially big spirals, so you can have 75% of the running time off scene, this is an issue with my layouts which shunting plank aficionado's may not have considered.      

If you buy a property then a big roomy unobstructed loft will inevitably be requisitioned for a bedroom for child/relatives/etc, as will any spare railway size bedroom, and the shed / Garage/ Stable/Barn will be filled with junk, so get something not in a flood zone with a huge Cellar.  No one wants to sleep in a Cellar, the wife won't want it as an office or sewing room and by putting tracks behind or even across the steps you don't need a lifting section.  All those American model railroaders can't be wrong?   

[DavidB-AU]

That's good. Write it down. A list of 20 things maybe.

If you'll forgive the American terminology, I'd also split them into givens and druthers. Given are things you can't change (like room size) or won't change (e.g. the region/era you wish to model). Druthers are things "you'druther" have but are negotiable (e.g. if you can't build a grand main line station, would you be happy with a branch line?).

 

Cheers

David

[Harlequin]

You can have as many wishlists, checklists, "givens and druthers" as you like but until you have a real space to build a model in, there's nothing to constrain them.

 

So I think you're right: It's not having the space yet that makes a layout difficult to visualise.

 

One way out of that would be to design a portable layout and thus impose some constraints on the size, number and format of baseboards you'd be willing to move.

[DavidB-AU]

I almost posted that too. Until you have a permanent space, consider building a small portable layout so you can at least have something to run and build up your collection of rollingstock.

 

Cheers

David

[rockershovel]

The biggest obstruction I find is the deliberate obstruction from Mrs RS, who has an overall philosophy of minimising the amount of actual action, contained in any given period of time. The number of possible alternative actions at any given moment are infinite; there is always some unrelated activity which can be insisted upon, at any given moment.

 

Hence the tenor banjo proves remarkably durable, because it can be picked up and played immediately, constitutes an obstruction to the tv, and put down the same way: it also fits the general description of “a night in the pub” which IS acceptable to her as “a useless Male thing to do”

 

The motorcycles also fit the same bill, because they take up a good deal of space, have their OWN space, and there is a steady outside influx of sons and associates related to it.

 

Model railways don’t, so far, qualify under either heading. Club nights qualify as “a night in the pub”.

Edited January 9, 2018 by rockershovel

[Guest]

I've spent months planning and researching a small end-to-end layout. The maximum space available is (excluding fiddleyards) 7 feet by 18 inches. Having decided the plan would work, I was also having trouble visualising it. I got hold of two 4 feet by 2 feet sheets of ply and cut them to the correct size. Full size paper templates followed and many happy but frustrating hours was spent on the floor pinning points and flexi track. Card mock-ups of the major "must-have" buildings helped too.

You know what? It doesn't fit at all and the minimum measurements have gone up to 8 feet by 2 feet. D@mn it... the curse of the space-starved modeller strikes again.

Don't be too disheartened, because even when you have built the boards and begun construction, things will change along the way. I think it's just the way it is and there's no point fighting it.

Good luck.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Pete 75C

[FPH 603]

I've had millions of different visions for my layout, and at the beginning it was very unstable and was prone to changing frequently. But as I got into building it, this still occurred but I had much better ideas and most of them were actually retained or at least deeply thought about before making a final decision.

[geoff_nicholls]

The amount of space curves and points take up combined with the available space, will determine what sort of layout is possible , I recommend drawing out a crossover and and a curve, full size, on a piece of newsprint, or old wallpaper. If you're thinking of an oval, then I suggest a 90 degree curve. And if it's double track then allow for that.

[JST]

err , yes it does , if you do it right.

 

The last thing you should so is build baseboards without a track layout in mind.  

 

In broad terms you are of course right, however.... in my case the area available for the baseboard had so many building constraints that until I had actually constructed the frame it was hard to see what was going to work. Nevertheless, yes, I did have an overall rough design in mind but until I found where exactly the old roof beams in my 150 year old French farmhouse affected things it was hard to do a hard and fast plan.

[The Stationmaster]

I've got two great visions and the difficulty has long been deciding between them as there is neither the space nor the time available to do both.  So how to decide between them?

 

Follow the advice from Miss P and list what you want, then narrow down that list but as others have said you have to relate it to the space available but also what stock and locos you might already have.  Even favouring a particular type of engine might help your decision process - do you want masses of panniers or lots of different 'Castles' passing by, could the stock available or readily constructed or converted help make your decision for you.  The practicalities area as important a part of your wants lists as yours prototype likes and ideas so do try to take the m into account.

 

Perhaps a list like this -

 

1. It has to be Western - decide period/era

2. I want express trains/short coal trains/long coal trains/ fast freight trains, autotrains, dmus, etc, etc - the decisions here will help decided the sort of area you want to model.

3. I like the scenery/atmosphere of the Welsh Valleys/Cornish branchlines/Thames Valley main line - again a choice but don't forget the practicalities. 

4. I just want to watch trains go by/I want lots of shunting - again a choice of the sort of operation you want.

5. Can I bend reality just a bit while still getting the flavour of the area/scene I want to model?

.......  and so on.

 

Gt all those ideas down first before you even do your first editing list

[Mike Storey]

I now finally have the space, or I did have. Beware the warnings above! My lovely space is currently full of other people's stuff as well as some of our own. Once you get the space, defend it against all comers..........

[RAF96]

Once you have the space secured then plan, plan and plan again, then leave it for a week or so and revisit the plan, which will require an iteration of the first session several times.

 

The secret is when you are convinced the plan is finally right, to envisage operating it, which is where 3-D renderings and/or train sim offerings from such as SCARM are invaluable as once you have to tried to run a few trains about you will see the errors in your plan and make further adjustments. I am on v9.8.33f of my simple shed layout and still not happy.

 

Rob

[DCMarvel]

Agreed. The best part is the planning, so put most effort into this aspect until you are convinced it will work in the space you have. Then design baseboards to suit the trackplan, never work on set sizes with frames all exactly the same as once you start laying track sods law dictates a point motor has to go where a baton exists, so you modify your plan. This is the thin end of a slippery wedge of further compromises.

[Nearholmer]

Maybe you should just practice visualising things in general.

 

You can even get books to help you learn how to do it, although they tend to be focused on the therapeutic uses of the technique, rather than on dreaming-up model railways (which is, of course, a great therapy in itself).

 

I'm entirely serious about this, because railway modelling is as much about creating mental pictures, then translating them into reality, as it is about replicating things in miniature. Even a pin-perfect replica in miniature of an entire station, say, and all the trains passing through it, requires visualisation to deal with the ever-changing seasons ..... you have to visualise which season to set it in, which week of the year even, to give it internal consistency.

[The Stationmaster]

Maybe you should just practice visualising things in general.

 

You can even get books to help you learn how to do it, although they tend to be focused on the therapeutic uses of the technique, rather than on dreaming-up model railways (which is, of course, a great therapy in itself).

 

I'm entirely serious about this, because railway modelling is as much about creating mental pictures, then translating them into reality, as it is about replicating things in miniature. Even a pin-perfect replica in miniature of an entire station, say, and all the trains passing through it, requires visualisation to deal with the ever-changing seasons ..... you have to visualise which season to set it in, which week of the year even, to give it internal consistency.

 

But you do need to inject the practicality of what space is available.  I had in my mind's eye exactly the track layout I wanted for my double line plus bay through station and how it would be worked and what it could do, or not do, operationally.  With Peco bullhead points now available thoughts turned to physical layout design and the very rapid realisation that with 3 foot radius curves at each end plus 5 foot long station platforms on the through lines what was ideal in my mind's eye simply would not fit into the 17 feet I have available (once the junk is banished). 

 

And I have conjured up and planned extensive 1:1 scale track layouts on a sheet of A4 paper and when they've gone through the PerWay Design Office and been laid they have fitted perfectly - just shows the need to relate space to the features that you want to put into it.

[GeoffAlan]

Over 40+ years of N gauge model railway modelling, and a few in OO before that, I'm working on N gauge layout Nos 5. & 6.

 

I found my real enjoyment of the hobby comes from two very different things. So my permanent layout, No. 5 started some 18 months ago following a house move has two continuous loops, one with sidings as well as a station, and an almost end to end layout around the outside. I say almost as all three sets of tracks connect. 

 

The loops allow me to 'sit and watch the trains go by'. My first pleasure. While the end to end allows for shunting of goods and passenger stock. My second pleasure.

 

 

What of layout No 6? Well its a miniature shunting layout built into a double shotgun case. For the first time I'm using magnetic uncoupling and if it's a success then I may add that to my end to end section on the main layout. On the back-burner I have plans for N outdoors, and each year the under tree Xmas layout gets a bit more detail. Being busy = enjoyment IMHO.

[Philou]

Hi, Philou here,

 

I thought I was the only one struggling with what seems to be an eternal problem of the visualised and creation of the ideal layout.

 

Mrs P is allowing me the use of a mezzanine area in our French barn - no roof beams for me  - oh no! I have a rotten floor instead to deal with first . Timber to replace the floor beams have arrived and are currently drying out. HOWEVER, as pointed out above, there do seem to be innumerable other tasks 'that must be done!' before I can get started on my project .

 

Here's some of the list:

 

Internal stairs to be renewed with new treads and risers and no step is the same as the one before. However, being currently being prepared and should be complete in about 3 weeks - yay!

External render to be hacked-off the house and barn and replaced with lime and sand pointing. This will take forever!!!! I know - it took me a month to do about 50sq.m and there's another 250sq.m to go and stonework has to be replaced in the barn walls to make it really weather tight as otherwise I shall have unwanted passengers aboard my trains . The work can neither be done when cold and wet nor hot and dry - spring and autumn time only really.

A sundeck to build before the summer is here and ideally AFTER I re-point so as not to spoil the decking.

A french drain (I suppose it would be french as it is where we are ) to the front of the house as we are below the level of the adjoining highway and get ingress of damp from time to time. 

If I've been good and my flooring timbers are dry I might be able to get started before my 68th birthday looms towards the end of the year. I have waited 40 (yes - 40years) for this layout so another year won't matter I suppose   .

 

To the layout itself - I know what I want from it and I know how it will be constructed. I'm on my 7th or 8th version of it via SCARM - BUT I am not happy with what I see. I am in the fortunate position that I have an area of 7.5m x 5.5m (24'6" x 18' in old money) with which to play. I did decide that I should not compromise on the station sizes (2) that are based on real locations. However, even with all that space available when I got to the practicalities of it all (gradients not steeper than 1:100, for example, or curves not less than 1.0m) it still can't be done as I had visualised it in my head.

 

(Question: Should I start a thread elsewhere so I can ask pretty please for help?

 

I'm a little reluctant to do that as I have wasted the three last evenings of my life reading 21 pages on another thread that was basically me! me! me! without any input from the OP. I wanted to shoot myself (metaphorically) by the time I got to page 10 - Mr Harlequin of this parish will know to whom I refer - it made me cross!!!)

 

So chums out there - if you want to create your layout - even on a piece of paper or a computer screen - do it, and play around with the layout. If you can't actually do any layout work due to time/space/cash/SWIMBO, then get a piece of board, a length of track to lay it on and just use it to try out your ballasting and rail painting skills. Wire it up, place some low relief building on it use to put some stock on it to test (as I did) or just put stock on display. I found it therapeutic while I wait my turn ).

 

Good luck and good visualising,

 

Philip

 

Edited: Minor typos ..... gah!

Edited January 10, 2018 by Philou