Bulleid Coaches

[Dunsignalling]

What the SR paint-shop would have been doing in the three years up to the final crimson/cream Mk1s receiving green in 1962 was, in large part, applying green to the rest of the region's c/c Mk1s!

 

Crimson/cream had kicked in by the middle of 1949, and painting/repainting, at least of main line corridor stock, into SR malachite would have ceased at the same time. All Maunsell and Bulleid stock still in SR malachite would therefore have come due for repainting into BR green by mid-1959. 

 

John    

[Chuffed 1]

Forgot to mention, BR(S) still had crimson non-corridor coaches running in 1961 - ‘Southern Vans & Coaches In Colour’ shows Long 10s 1098 & 1069 as running that year, the latter withdrawn in October ‘61 still in crimson.

1098 was repainted into green before withdrawal in December ‘62.

[Chuffed 1]

37 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

What the SR paint-shop would have been doing in the three years up to the final crimson/cream Mk1s receiving green in 1962 was, in large part, applying green to the rest of the region's c/c Mk1s!  

Blimey!  According to Parkin just 230 Mk1s were painted crimson/cream.

230 coaches in 160 weeks doesn’t seem a lot?

 

Roger

[Dunsignalling]

39 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

Forgot to mention, BR(S) still had crimson non-corridor coaches running in 1961 - ‘Southern Vans & Coaches In Colour’ shows Long 10s 1098 & 1069 as running that year, the latter withdrawn in October ‘61 still in crimson.

1098 was repainted into green before withdrawal in December ‘62.

Yes, though whether or not they were "overdue" would depend on when they got crimson in the first place. AIUI "everything back in green by the end of 1959" only applied to main-line coaches, and by inference, SR-built ones at that.

 

Secondary/branch stock with a limited life-expectancy could just get patched up, and exceed the 10-year schedule. There seems to have been little consistency to this (as your examples illustrate), and I've often wondered how much "to-paint-or-not-to-paint" an old coach was influenced by how busy (or not) the painters were with higher priority work! The opposite applied to main-line stock, which would receive attention, if the need arose, ahead of schedule.

 

There's also the matter of crimson Mk1 non-corridors being repainted green to consider, though mixed rakes on the Exmouth branch are harder to spot in b&w photos!

 

John

Edited January 22, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Just now, Chuffed 1 said:

Blimey!  According to Parkin just 230 Mk1s were painted crimson/cream.

230 coaches in 160 weeks doesn’t seem a lot?

 

Roger

Yes but there's also non-corridor stock and EMUs to take into account.  

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

21 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

......... and I've often wondered how much "to-paint-or-not-to-paint" an old coach was influenced by how busy (or not) the painters were with higher priority work! .........

Don't forget the Southern's Carriage Works were expert at 'revarnishing' which could extend the life of a paint finish indefinitely ....... though we'll never know how much was actually applying ( yet ) another coat of varnish over the existing ones - with contemporary insignia - and how much was touching up the old paint finish.

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Don't forget the Southern's Carriage Works were expert at 'revarnishing' which could extend the life of a paint finish indefinitely ....... though we'll never know how much was actually applying ( yet ) another coat of varnish over the existing ones - with contemporary insignia - and how much was touching up the old paint finish.

Agreed, my meaning was unclear, and was intended to imply "to paint or just to revarnish".

 

However, that mainly applied to the "antiques" and the ten-year repainting cycle for front line corridor stock was generally adhered to.

 

John

Edited January 24, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Venator]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere already. I wanted to ask if any of these new  coaches would be appropriate for a southeast layout? Loosely I model round Ashford and Kent in general. I understand Bulleid coaches did not arrive on the eastern section until 1949. Thanking you all in advance.

[Wickham Green too]

Yes - it depends entirely on your date ..................... the first Bulleids on the S.E.D. were the 1947/8 Birmingham-built sets which Bachmann are not ( yet ? ) doing. In May of 1949 four-coach sets "... 80-94 entered service on the London-Ramsgate-Margate services. These were the last sets outshopped in malachite green and the first with 15-in deepwindow ventilators ..." according to Mike King.

[brushman47544]

38 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yes - it depends entirely on your date ..................... the first Bulleids on the S.E.D. were the 1947/8 Birmingham-built sets which Bachmann are not ( yet ? ) doing. In May of 1949 four-coach sets "... 80-94 entered service on the London-Ramsgate-Margate services. These were the last sets outshopped in malachite green and the first with 15-in deepwindow ventilators ..." according to Mike King.

 

Weren't the Birminghams announced in Crimson and Cream alongside the others in shades of green?

[Wickham Green too]

47 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Weren't the Birminghams announced in Crimson and Cream alongside the others in shades of green?

Not in the initial announcement ( https://grahammuz.com/2018/01/07/Bachmann-2018-19-range-announcements-includes-new-tooled-lbsc-h1-and-bulleid-63ft-coaching-stock-in-00/ ) ........ and I very much doubt they've changed as the B.R.C.W. coaches were quite different from the 'standard' Bulleids.

[Venator]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yes - it depends entirely on your date ..................... the first Bulleids on the S.E.D. were the 1947/8 Birmingham-built sets which Bachmann are not ( yet ? ) doing. In May of 1949 four-coach sets "... 80-94 entered service on the London-Ramsgate-Margate services. These were the last sets outshopped in malachite green and the first with 15-in deepwindow ventilators ..." according to Mike King.

 

I'm not too fussy about the particular date, if I can justify any of these Bachmann releases featuring on the eastern section at any time in their lives I will buy a few.

[Dunsignalling]

21 minutes ago, Venator said:

 

I'm not too fussy about the particular date, if I can justify any of these Bachmann releases featuring on the eastern section at any time in their lives I will buy a few.

For the South Eastern you just need to avoid the 2-set (BSK+BCK) as those were a purely South Western thing.

 

John

[autocoach]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

For the South Eastern you just need to avoid the 2-set (BSK+BCK) as those were a purely South Western thing.

 

John

You mean I don't have to buy a full 3 set for my late summer 1947 ACE section that reached Padstow.

[Dunsignalling]

34 minutes ago, autocoach said:

You mean I don't have to buy a full 3 set for my late summer 1947 ACE section that reached Padstow.

The Padstow portion of the ACE in high summer was usually a 5-set! The Bude portion was possibly a 2-set but not Bulleids as they weren't built until 1948.

 

If you want a RTR Bulleid 3-set for Padstow in 1947, the Hornby 59-footers are probably a better bet because a lot of the early 63-footers went to the Bournemouth route.

 

In 1947, the ACE would still have been mainly Maunsell in its make-up.

 

John

Edited February 3, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Venator]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yes - it depends entirely on your date ..................... the first Bulleids on the S.E.D. were the 1947/8 Birmingham-built sets which Bachmann are not ( yet ? ) doing. In May of 1949 four-coach sets "... 80-94 entered service on the London-Ramsgate-Margate services. These were the last sets outshopped in malachite green and the first with 15-in deepwindow ventilators ..." according to Mike King.

21 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

For the South Eastern you just need to avoid the 2-set (BSK+BCK) as those were a purely South Western thing.

 

John

 

Many thanks for your help. Depending on price I may simply buy a couple and mix them into some MK1 / Maunsell formations.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Venator said:

 

Many thanks for your help. Depending on price I may simply buy a couple and mix them into some MK1 / Maunsell formations.

Go easy on mixing coaches. Both Southern Railway and BR(S) were very strong on fixed sets for loco-hauled coaches, as they were for EMUs. Loose vehicles were in the minority. 

[Wickham Green too]

While that is, indeed, the general rule the Southern ordered an unusual amount of loose ( Bulleid ) stock in August 1947 including forty each Firsts, Composites & Thirds and 20 Brake Thirds - the Firsts were to be shared east and west for boat trains but the others were for the S.E.D. ...... they appeared in 1949/50 and - inevitably - some ( but not all ) soon got formed into sets.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Go easy on mixing coaches. Both Southern Railway and BR(S) were very strong on fixed sets for loco-hauled coaches, as they were for EMUs. Loose vehicles were in the minority. 

Certain Bulleid 3-sets were designated as "seasonal" and made up to 5-sets in summer. They had specific loose SKs allocated and each set got the same pair each year. The Southern being "strong" on such matters is therefore putting it mildly!

 

Those aside, where loose vehicles were added, they were tacked onto the ends of sets, not inserted into them. 

 

Unless you model 1965 and later, when sets began to be broken up, I'd recommend sticking mostly to SKs when adding loose Bulleids into trains of other stock.

 

John

Edited February 4, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[autocoach]

Have we heard anything more on the elephantine gestation (actually longer than that)  of these long awaited coaches? 

[Pre Grouping fan]

10 minutes ago, autocoach said:

Have we heard anything more on the elephantine gestation (actually longer than that)  of these long awaited coaches? 

Latest from the collectors club works report was the decorated samples are awaited. Sometime next year would be my guess. 

[Mallard60022]

Bachman are waiting for the news of my 'demise' before releasing these excellent looking items. I could do a Reggy Perrin for a fee....................................

I am half way through building a U and a U1, so you know what loco's will be announced sometime soon. 

P

Edited September 23, 2021 by Mallard60022
:)

[Ian J.]

Maybe I should start a U kit as well...

[2ManySpams]

18 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Bachman are waiting for the news of my 'demise' before releasing these excellent looking items. I could do a Reggy Perrin for a fee....................................

I am half way through building a U and a U1, so you know what loco's will be announced sometime soon. 

P

 

High or low running boards on the U old fruit?

[truffy]

On 23/09/2021 at 15:11, Mallard60022 said:

Bachman are waiting for the news of my 'demise' before releasing these excellent looking items. I could do a Reggy Perrin for a fee....................................

Alternatively, an ‘accommodation’ could be arranged…

 

If you catch my drift.