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Thanks!

I am glad I am not as unobservant as I thought I might be!

Martin

It would appear that managing customer expectations and keeping their customer base informed is very low on their priority list.

I am just a customer complete with old fashioned standards ,not sniping for the sake of it.

I have 5 such coaches on order with this supplier and I expect to be treated as a customer--forget any idea that I should be grateful that they are doing this or that they have manufacturing  capacity issues.

I find it almost insulting to communicate 2019 releases minus any update on outstanding items.

Ed Plant

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It would appear that managing customer expectations and keeping their customer base informed is very low on their priority list.

I am just a customer complete with old fashioned standards ,not sniping for the sake of it.

I have 5 such coaches on order with this supplier and I expect to be treated as a customer--forget any idea that I should be grateful that they are doing this or that they have manufacturing  capacity issues.

I find it almost insulting to communicate 2019 releases minus any update on outstanding items.

Its what they have always done - announce the latest additions to the range while numerous previously announced models are awaited; what gets me is that the  model press and retailers fall for it every year and headline  Bachmanns new releases for xxxx when it fact a number will not appear in xxxx and what does appear may be some of xxxx, some xxxx-1, some xxxx-2 etc

Post 22 in this thread gives a listing of expected new tooling production this year http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141213-Bachmann-europe-launch-2019-catalogues-a-view-of-2018/ and the Bulleids are not listed.

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Its what they have always done - announce the latest additions to the range while numerous previously announced models are awaited; what gets me is that the model press and retailers fall for it every year and headline Bachmanns new releases for xxxx when it fact a number will not appear in xxxx and what does appear may be some of xxxx, some xxxx-1, some xxxx-2 etc

Post 22 in this thread gives a listing of expected new tooling production this year http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141213-Bachmann-europe-launch-2019-catalogues-a-view-of-2018/ and the Bulleids are not listed.

All of which is rather ironic considering some on here were berating Bachmann for the conservative nature of their 2019 programme and a lack of new tooling.

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Its what they have always done - announce the latest additions to the range while numerous previously announced models are awaited; what gets me is that the  model press and retailers fall for it every year and headline  Bachmanns new releases for xxxx when it fact a number will not appear in xxxx and what does appear may be some of xxxx, some xxxx-1, some xxxx-2 etc

Post 22 in this thread gives a listing of expected new tooling production this year http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141213-Bachmann-europe-launch-2019-catalogues-a-view-of-2018/ and the Bulleids are not listed.

So, if the funds aren't going to be needed for those, I can stretch to two sets of the Hornby short ones this year. :sungum:

 

John

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I believe they are currently at the Drawing Office stage so a ways to go.

 

CKT

Indeed, but judging by recent performance of the two companies concerned I'd put money on the red box ones being on the shelves before the blue box ones!

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It would appear that managing customer expectations and keeping their customer base informed is very low on their priority list.

I am just a customer complete with old fashioned standards ,not sniping for the sake of it.

I have 5 such coaches on order with this supplier and I expect to be treated as a customer--forget any idea that I should be grateful that they are doing this or that they have manufacturing  capacity issues.

I find it almost insulting to communicate 2019 releases minus any update on outstanding items.

Ed Plant

 

Personally I prefer things announced years ahead. Allows me time to budget and save up for them.

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I think it is a great shame that Bachmann have not gone ahead with developing new Bulleid coaches. I remember having a conversation with one of the Bachmann staff at the Collectors Day on the Bluebell Railway and was given the clear impression that work was going on, that is now some years ago; it was the day that the H2 was announced! I suspect that the on-off nature of the rumours prevented Southernpride from updating their Bulleid coaches and also affected Hornby's decision making. If I were Hornby, and I am not(!) and wanted to be bullish in the present market I think I would go ahead and develop the Tavern Cars. Given the speed with which they have developed the Bulleid shorties they could get the two car sets out before we see the Bachmann coaches and they would sell well. I do find it strange that they are still in the research phase at Bachmann when they have already researched them for their N gauge versions. I suspect the arrival of Hornby's shorties will have a negative effect on the future sales of the Bachmann longer versions if they do not appear soon. Am I missing some other factor - other than a lack of resources in terms of time and money?

 

all the best

 

Godfrey 

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I think it is a great shame that Bachmann have not gone ahead with developing new Bulleid coaches.

 

They have! - its just taking a long time in the same way as the 158 / 159 DMU amongst others.

 

 

If I were Hornby, and I am not(!) and wanted to be bullish in the present market I think I would go ahead and develop the Tavern Cars. 

 

A coach that is pretty useless without the 64ft Bulleid stock to go with it, and a coach that got comprehensively rebuilt several times in its short life requiring lots of tooling to be made up. Hardly a rational business decision at a time when Hornby need to maximise revenue generation (the 3 car 'short, multi doored' Bulleid sets that were unchanged from construction to scrapping being a very good way of doing that)

 

 

I suspect the arrival of Hornby's shorties will have a negative effect on the future sales of the Bachmann longer versions if they do not appear soon. Am I missing some other factor - other than a lack of resources in terms of time and money?

 

 

The 'shorties' were generally deployed on secondary services once the longer 64ft Bulleids started to come on stream so its not as if Bachmann's models will be rendered useless by Hornby's models.

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Indeed, but judging by recent performance of the two companies concerned I'd put money on the red box ones being on the shelves before the blue box ones!

 

Different models though!

 

Some seem to be under the impression that producing the 'shorties' means the 64ft 'long' versions are not required (or vi s versa) when the reality is that far more 'long' coaches were produced and generally speaking, the 'short' sets soon found themselves moved onto secondary duties as the 'long' vehicles came on stream.

 

For anyone seriously wanting to model the late 1940s / 1950s / 1960s Southern Region scene Bachmann's 64ft coaches are a must - though obviously Hornby's shorter ones will still be a useful addition to the Southern modellers armoury

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With the new spirit evident at Margate, and a historic support for SR subjects, I would not be at all surprised to see Hornby bring out some 63'6 Bulleids regardless of Bachmann. They could concentrate on some of the types Bachmann have not announced.


With the new spirit evident at Margate, and a historic support for SR subjects, I would not be at all surprised to see Hornby bring out some 63'6 Bulleids regardless of Bachmann. They could concentrate on some of the types Bachmann have not announced.

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I think there is a case for RTR Tavern car sets.

There is evidence that the Tavern cars ( not the dining composite ) survived

in original form long enough to be painted green. Each car was an individual with

it's own Inn sign, and the complicated original livery would be relatively easy with

Tampo print. The companion vehicle is another matter and would require two sets

of tools for both original and rebuilt condition.

Yes they were ' niche ' vehicles but so are Pullman bar cars, and gate sets, and I 

suspect these have had reasonably good sales.

 

It would be good to know exactly why the Tavern dining cars were rebuilt so rapidly

with proper windows, was it through complaints about not being able to see out, or

was motion sickness in a dining car the problem!.

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It would be good to know exactly why the Tavern dining cars were rebuilt so rapidly

with proper windows, was it through complaints about not being able to see out, or

was motion sickness in a dining car the problem!.

 

Both probably.

 

I would also suggest that given carriage lighting in the steam days was by fairly low wattage filament lamps powered by batteries, having no windows would make the interiors quite dingy compared to stock with proper windows during daylight hours

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I think the Tavern cars would be better done as a limited commission. I can't see Hornby, Bachmann or any other manufacturer doing them as part of their main ranges. As far as the Pullman bar car is concerned, that fits into Hornby's Pullman obsession, so not really as odd to do as the Tavern cars.

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With the new spirit evident at Margate, and a historic support for SR subjects, I would not be at all surprised to see Hornby bring out some 63'6 Bulleids regardless of Bachmann. They could concentrate on some of the types Bachmann have not announced.

With the new spirit evident at Margate, and a historic support for SR subjects, I would not be at all surprised to see Hornby bring out some 63'6 Bulleids regardless of Bachmann. They could concentrate on some of the types Bachmann have not announced.

Joseph,

I do hope you are right--The Bournemouth 6 car dining rakes would be most useful for me and hopefully others.

regards,

Ed

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I think the Tavern cars would be better done as a limited commission. I can't see Hornby, Bachmann or any other manufacturer doing them as part of their main ranges. As far as the Pullman bar car is concerned, that fits into Hornby's Pullman obsession, so not really as odd to do as the Tavern cars.

Quite possibly, but hopefully by whoever makes the "ordinary" coaches to go with them (Bachmann as things currently stand) so that everything has a chance of matching.

 

I already have a Hornby Pullman Bar Car (R.4418 'The New Century Bar') in any case, so what's new about R.4904?

 

John

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I suppose my point grew out of my mild frustration that the development of Bachmann's Bulleid coaches is still only at the research phase after all this time. I agree the 158/159 gestation period has been long but as I understand it that has involved the development of a brand new mechanism which will reduce the visual impact of the drive on the inside the coaches - I assume rather like the Replica solution which works really well.

I certainly agree that they are an odd ball couple but in their original rather eye-catching form and livery they also ran on the ER with the 'Master Cutler', 'The White Rose', 'The Norfolkman', the 'Country Continental' (two sets) and the 'South Yorkshireman' ER and LMR so they were seen with Mk 1 coaches in other parts of the country as well as other Bulleids on the Southern region.

I would be delighted  and not surprised if they were developed as a limited commission and whilst not quite in the same class of very special models such as the Dynamometer Car I am sure they would generate a lot of interest.

I suppose the other factor in my random thoughts relates to the admiration for the excellent work Hornby have done with their Maunsell coaches, in other words I trust them to do a good job

I certainly agree that we do need (well I feel I need), the 64' Bulleid coaches and when they do arrive, from whoever, I shall be buying some and the greater the variety of types the better. 

Yes as far as I understand it they were rebuilt because the passengers of the time hated them. Still make a good model though!

 

all the best

Godfrey

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I don't see why Tavern Cars need to match Bachmann Bulleids. They spent as much time with BR Mark Ones and even worked with Gresleys, Thompsons and BR Mark Twos, depending on condition. They even managed to work on Motorail services.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108771-bulleid-tavern-cars/

 

 

 

 

Jason

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:03 PM, trevor7598 said:

I think there is a case for RTR Tavern car sets.

There is evidence that the Tavern cars ( not the dining composite ) survived

in original form long enough to be painted green. Each car was an individual with

it's own Inn sign, and the complicated original livery would be relatively easy with

Tampo print. The companion vehicle is another matter and would require two sets

of tools for both original and rebuilt condition.

Yes they were ' niche ' vehicles but so are Pullman bar cars, and gate sets, and I 

suspect these have had reasonably good sales.

 

It would be good to know exactly why the Tavern dining cars were rebuilt so rapidly

with proper windows, was it through complaints about not being able to see out, or

was motion sickness in a dining car the problem!.

The Taverns were quite popular as they were, whereas the Diner was not and was rebuilt much earlier ('51?). Taverns were modified with more windows in 1959 and other detail improvements. Maybe niche but would sell quite well I suspect.

Best way to get the coaches you need is to use brass sides, probably on Mk 1 UFs and then do the required detailing to the UF. Many think this is a difficult task but it is not, apart from finer detail on body sides, ends and roof and getting a decent paint finish.

P

 

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