Snells Nook Halt - 3D Project

[rd84]

Hi,

 

Snells Nook Halt was on the Charnwood Forest Railway near Loughborough, Leicestershire, UK. There are no known photographs so here is an impression of what Snells Nook Halt would have looked like ...

 

 

 

 

I'm going to put this model into a railway simulator but thought it would be nice to help a friend make a O Gauge model of it. So I have decided to get some parts 3D printed and some laser cut. I've just received the first 3D printed parts from Rhys at http://www.3dprintnscan.co.uk - I'm really pleased with the parts and fast service provided by this company- they were very nice to deal with. I'm also going to check out Shapeways to see how a complete seat will turn out in Frosted Extreme Detail.

 

 

Here are the 3dPrintNscan parts.....

 

 

 

 

The parts are very clean and the detail is very good - the only problem will be me trying to put the parts together since I've not made a model this small and delicate before - I think some sort of jig will be required.

 

I'm getting the main building laser cut by Andy at www.railmodel.co.uk but will have some of the smaller details 3D printed.

 

I'm new to preparing CAD files for 3D printing and laser cutting so I'm sure I'll make errors - 3dprintNScan made the process very easy for me and Andy at railmodel has been very helpful as well - I'm sure lots of other companies will give advice on preparing your CAD files for modelling as well - so my advice is to give it a try if you've been thinking of using these techniques for your models.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to show my progress on this thread and help any novices like myself avoid some of the potential traps and errors. First lesson in Sketchup - do all of your work in 1:1 scale and only when finished reduce to your required scale. Make sure nothing is thinner than about 0.4mm in its scaled state - anything that supports your model such as the seat legs in this case should probably be about a minimum 1mm thick - I bet an heavier structure above would require more - I'm sure others who are more experienced on this forum will be able to offer advice on this - I've had a lot of help from forum members to help get me started which I'm very grateful for.

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 8, 2018 by rd84

[jeff mcghie]

If you're 3d printing the parts would it not be easier to print the complete bench if its all the same material?

[rd84]

If you're 3d printing the parts would it not be easier to print the complete bench if its all the same material?

Hi,

 

I would have preferred it in one piece - I was advised that a kit was the best method in this case - I don’t have the expertise at present to really understand the pros and cons.

 

Cheers

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

Looking at the original picture above, the seat looks like what I sometimes think of as a garden seat, with bent metal scroll like ends(I found one in some scrap many years ago, and sort of managed to put some wooden slats on it to create a seat). I think many railways used a variation, and I found there was an etched kit for both LYR and LNWR versions.

That does not mean it could not be done by 3D printing, but I would definitely design it as one piece(one of the big advantages of the process).

I have one of the books on LMS platform bits, and it has a nice drawing of an LNWR one. I also notice there were diagonal struts under the seat to stop the ends collapsing in. Not often found on models.

One of my early designs was for a typical French cafe seat, initially in 1/35, but I successfully reduced it down to O scale, and it did not look too chunky.

[rd84]

Looking at the original picture above, the seat looks like what I sometimes think of as a garden seat, with bent metal scroll like ends(I found one in some scrap many years ago, and sort of managed to put some wooden slats on it to create a seat). I think many railways used a variation, and I found there was an etched kit for both LYR and LNWR versions.

That does not mean it could not be done by 3D printing, but I would definitely design it as one piece(one of the big advantages of the process).

I have one of the books on LMS platform bits, and it has a nice drawing of an LNWR one. I also notice there were diagonal struts under the seat to stop the ends collapsing in. Not often found on models.

One of my early designs was for a typical French cafe seat, initially in 1/35, but I successfully reduced it down to O scale, and it did not look too chunky.

Hi,

 

Thanks for the info on this - I'll probably try again and ask for a one piece seat to see what can be achieved.

 

Cheers

Paul

[rd84]

Hi,

 

I've just had another set of 3D printing done for the model by Rhys at 3dPrintNScan ..

 

 - they are just so nice to work with and really fast making the parts.... here are the next pieces which I think are just amazing...

 

waiting room signs, station running boards, LNWR station direction sign "To the Motor Car Railway" !! - window frames, and doors....

 

 

 

 

So pleased with the quality of these parts.

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 10, 2018 by rd84

[rd84]

forgot to say but the posts on the running board are on an embankment so I've allowed extra length for support and to appear above the platform fence as shown on the first CAD images.

[sem34090]

I seem to remember seeing this over on UKTS not so long ago: is that UE4 you've rendered it in? Also, will this be included in a TS route, if so can you say what it would be? We need some LNWR routes for TS18.

[rd84]

I seem to remember seeing this over on UKTS not so long ago: is that UE4 you've rendered it in? Also, will this be included in a TS route, if so can you say what it would be? We need some LNWR routes for TS18.

Hi,

 

If you go to the UKTS forum and do a search on Charnwood you should find something there on my progress - it will show up on the recent and older TS forums - so it will be a TS route and I would hope at some point it will become part of the latest Train Sim World if they manage to make an editor for it.

 

You're quite right it is rendered in UE4 - I've also done other renders with Maxwell in Sketchup.... (ALL work in progress)

 

 

 

 

 

 

onwards to Loughborough, Derby Road....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might be interesting to get some of these LNWR structures laser cut /3d printed and made available for the LNWR model railway enthusiasts ?

 

My big problem is lack of time so I've no idea how long it will take to complete the route.

 

Hope this helps ?

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 12, 2018 by rd84

[rd84]

I just received the latest batch of parts from 3dPrintNscan - really impressed - they've got a very clean finish and are also very strong - no signs of warping or any problems.

 

Cheers

Paul

[sem34090]

The route looks great!

 

As for 3D Printing, I may have to use the same firm as you are...

[rd84]

The route looks great!

 

As for 3D Printing, I may have to use the same firm as you are...

They're very helpful and give a quick service - they have a minimum charge of £25 so make sure you give them enough parts to print to make it worthwhile - they will advise you the best way to deal with this though.

 

Cheers

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

Advantage of Shapeways is that they handle all production, sales and distribution(worldwide). That means I can just get involved in design and take a break.

Anyway,

I needed some platform/garden seats in 1/32 and 1/43 fits within the same design size framework. Curves are not easy to design, so I fancied the challenge. Still needs a bit of fiddling to get it nearer to the correct shape. In reality these seat ends are made from metal about 1 inch by about 1/4in. In O scale that comes out at about .7mm by .2mm . The width is OK for any 3D printing, but nothing can get near scale thickness , unless you are using a thin strip of metal, paper or plastic. Would not fancy building, even,one that way, so I am happy to compromise.

Using a minimumof 1mm in 1/32 scale, comes down to about 0.7mm in O scale, it did not fail any of the checks on Shapeways for WSF, but might be tempted to use FUD to see difference. My cafe chairs come out OK using WSF in O scale.

I almost gave up, until I realised I was trying to calculating thickness required for 4mm scale. I printed out scale drawing for ends at one quater scale(biggest that would fit on A4 paper). Overall drawing done to 1/16th scale. Big enough to get main measurements.

Came up with this

Although I refer to it as an LNWR seat, I want it for general use, and I can add embossed name on back easily. Was the name adjusted to fit the space or was the panel adjusted to fit the name.

 

Just had another look at the first picture. Would they have had name on both the sign and the seat? There are photos in the book I have, and some  seats  just have an empty panel on back. Would make it easier to move from station to station.

Edited January 13, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rd84]

Nice looking design - I've also done a complete Snells Nook LNWR seat with Shapeways in FXD - I'm still waiting for it to be delivered - I'll post up some photo's when I get it. My seat is 1/43

 

Some of the seats would be plain and some would have names - so in your case I think it is best to have no name so that it can be used generally anywhere - I suspect smaller stations like Snells Nook would have been plain and most likely wouldn't even have had a seat ! :-) however since no images of Snells Nook exist I like the artistic licence of having a seat and no-one can really say that I am wrong. It seems to add to the rustic charm of this small rural halt.

 

 

Cheers

Paul

[rd84]

The route looks great!

 

As for 3D Printing, I may have to use the same firm as you are...

Is TS18 a free upgrade of TS17 ? Or do I have to buy it separately ?

 

Cheers

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

Nice looking design - I've also done a complete Snells Nook LNWR seat with Shapeways in FXD - I'm still waiting for it to be delivered - I'll post up some photo's when I get it. My seat is 1/43

 

Some of the seats would be plain and some would have names - so in your case I think it is best to have no name so that it can be used generally anywhere - I suspect smaller stations like Snells Nook would have been plain and most likely wouldn't even have had a seat ! :-) however since no images of Snells Nook exist I like the artistic licence of having a seat and no-one can really say that I am wrong. It seems to add to the rustic charm of this small rural halt.

 

 

Cheers

Paul

Will be interesting to see. As for name/no name, the photo  I have seen just has the hollowed out backgroud. Suppose the letters were added separately.

I assume you have included the supporting strut underneath. It looks like a standard fixture, although similar seats on other railways don't appear to have them, unless needed.

[rd84]

On the shapeways ‘heat map’ it indicated a problem so I reluctantly deleted the strut braces.

 

The seats wouldn’t have had a pre-cut space for the station name because of the different length station names - they would have been custom cut for each cast station name plate - I’m in the LNWRS so I can ask for advice if you have any specialist questions about the LNWR.

 

I’m looking forward to your LNWR steam rail car to put in the Snells Nook scene - I wish someone would do one for Train Simulator as well - perhaps not something you do ?

 

Cheers

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

On the shapeways ‘heat map’ it indicated a problem so I reluctantly deleted the strut braces.

 

The seats wouldn’t have had a pre-cut space for the station name because of the different length station names - they would have been custom cut for each cast station name plate - I’m in the LNWRS so I can ask for advice if you have any specialist questions about the LNWR.

 

I’m looking forward to your LNWR steam rail car to put in the Snells Nook scene - I wish someone would do one for Train Simulator as well - perhaps not something you do ?

 

Cheers

Paul

Struts - I suppose something had to give.

What puzzles me, and it puzzled the writers of the book I have, is why a seat has the recess cut out, but no station name. Most of the station names in the photos are roughly same length. I would have been surprised if they were not cut to length, as they look like they are cut out not stuck on letters, but they might just be extremely well stuck down. 

 

Unfortunately I am not involved in any Train Simulator simulation development. I know some software is shared between 3D design and computer simulation, but software I use approaches from engineering side which suits me as it is more like program development. I can resize my designs much easier as well, as it is a simple line of code added.

The Shapeways checks are only first stage in checking,as it does not guarantee something will print properly. Even if they could print some parts so thin, they would not be strong enough.

[rd84]

The station name on the seat was a cast iron plate so letters and plate background would have all been one cast unit - this was then recessed into the wood of the seat back rail.

 

Larger signs such as the running in board would have been wooden letters screwed onto a wooden background.

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 13, 2018 by rd84

[rue_d_etropal]

Sounds a complex process for what is a fairly mundane item of station furniture. I have found that the more common or mundane an item the more difficult it is to find info, in particular scale drawings. The only drawing I have found is the LNWR one, which is why I did that one. The LYR one is similar ,but the armrest support is behind the top bar, and that is plain, no name. As I am a member of the LYR society I have access to their info. I have no allegence to any particular railway, having been born in LNWR/Metropolitan territory(hence the Oerlikon EMU), and now living in LYR territory(hence the LYR steam railmotor).

Apart from the railcars , if something looks interesting and I can find drawings I will attempt to design a model. I tend to switch between projects to stop getting bored. I have a whole book of Souther Nouveau station items to tempt me.

 

Something else, the fencing.Just wondering if that might be a bit modern(otherwise the LNWR were pioneers in its design). I used to be involved in woodland conservation, and remember that type of fence construction being introduced in the 70s , in an attempt to disuade vandalism(that was the reason for the metal tab over the top). We used to try all sorts of ways to make posts indestructable, but suspect most still could be broken by somone determined.

Edited January 14, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rd84]

Hi,

 

The fencing shown is standard LNWR fencing - I think it was known as 'cattle proof fencing' - the LNWR were pretty thorough. In later years much of it was replaced or modified to post and wire , on the other side of the track at Snells Nook they had dry stone walling which faced the Garendon Park estate to keep their lordships happy , the bridge is stone rather than the more usual red brick with blue engineering brick detailing for the same reason. The line was built between 1881 and 1883 - I've seen photo's from this period with the LNWR fencing. The fencing on the platform and pathway I think was Harris fencing and was specified on an LNWR drawing I have from around 1904 - photos from other locations seem to confirm this was common at LNWR halts.

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 14, 2018 by rd84

[rue_d_etropal]

It would be interesting to see some photos. I have certainly not seen anything like it prior to what was used 40 years ago. Cutting timbers like that, and lining them up, especially on a slope is not the easiest task.Getting fence posts into embankment(rubble?) is difficult, having actually tried it. 

I tried googling Harris fencing and found nothing.

[rd84]

Hi,

Couldn't find a really good photo , but here is one from the LNWR Society, http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Mystery/index.php?display_base_mystery_desktop=83
 

This is better....

 

 

 

I'vegot early photos on the Charnwood Forest Railway showing this fencing - later photo's show either remains of this fencing or post and wire replacements.

 

This type of lineside fencing is available from a couple of suppliers for model railways.

 

Jack Nelson's LNWR Portrayed Page 183 gives drawings and details of this and other LNWR fencing.

 

Cheers
Paul

Edited January 16, 2018 by rd84

[rue_d_etropal]

Thought you might be hinking that fencing. I was referring to the post and rail at side of steps and behind the platform. It looks like a square post with a triangle slot in the top. An anti vandal nailed/screwed strip is then fitted to the top to hold the bar to the post. It is commonly used these days, but I don't remember seeing it before the 70s.

I wish Peco would re-publish that book by Jack Nelson again. I saw a copy at Manchester , but it was a bit too expensive. I have copies of MRN from the 40s when Jack was first writing about his approach to modelling and the club he was at in Essex. It wasn't just his adoption of HO, but his use of the Z dimension, with  scenery(a town scee with a tramway) at back of  layouts higher than the front, that put him ahead of most in the hobby at the time.

Edited January 16, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rd84]

This fencing was specified on my 1904 LNWR drawing - check out the Jack Nelson book for other examples - I’ll look for a decent photo

 

Cheers

Paul