Snells Nook Halt - 3D Project

[rd84]

I received my Shapeways seat today. The material used was FXD - so some lessons and comparisons with the 3dScanNprint model...

 

The Shapeways FXD plastic seems a bit like a hard polythene and seems to be prone to slight warping at the sizes shown in the image below - the material is slightly matt but is perfectly ok. The 3dPrintNscan polyjet version shown above is a much more solid plastic and seems to have a better resolution on the Snells Nook panel detail - there is no obvious warping with the 3dPrintNscan polyjet plastic which is a much smoother harder plastic than the Shapeways FXD. If you look at Simons drawing above you might think that it looks way too 'chunky' and that my image looks much more to scale and nicer because of this - For Shapeways FXD the truth is at this scale the chunkiness will not show on Simons model due to its small actual size and it will make a much more viable model - Simons experience is showing compared to my beginner status.(hopefully Simon has now forgiven my 'chunky' comment  ) When viewed in the CAD program the models are very large on screen and increases in material thickness look poor - on the real model you will not see this even in O gauge. I've shown the actual thickness I used - for FXD I think the minimum thickness for everything in this image should be 1mm - particularly the seat legs and 'wooden' parts - the 0.4mm seat arms were ok - but given they should match the rest of the metalwork there would be no point doing this. - So Shapeways did a good job but my design needs to be re-done - 3dPrintNscan was better quality but of course needs building up - the 3dPrintNscan tolerated the finer components in my design better than Shapeways FXD - the 3DprintNscan is a tougher harder plastic - Shapeways would be fine with a revised design - Shapeways service is fairly fast, 3dPrintNscan was much faster - Shapeways is a bit 'remote' probably because of the size of the company - 3dPrintNscan give a very individual service and are very helpful - its nice to talk with them and discuss problems and solutions - 3dPrintNscan are about 20% more expensive - so pluses and minuses with each supplier - just make your choice what you're after - I'm very pleased with both suppliers - however I'm going for 3dPrintNscan for their quality and individual service.

 

 

 

[rd84]

Thought you might be hinking that fencing. I was referring to the post and rail at side of steps and behind the platform. It looks like a square post with a triangle slot in the top. An anti vandal nailed/screwed strip is then fitted to the top to hold the bar to the post. It is commonly used these days, but I don't remember seeing it before the 70s.

I wish Peco would re-publish that book by Jack Nelson again. I saw a copy at Manchester , but it was a bit too expensive. I have copies of MRN from the 40s when Jack was first writing about his approach to modelling and the club he was at in Essex. It wasn't just his adoption of HO, but his use of the Z dimension, with  scenery(a town scee with a tramway) at back of  layouts higher than the front, that put him ahead of most in the hobby at the time.

 

Thought you might be hinking that fencing. I was referring to the post and rail at side of steps and behind the platform. It looks like a square post with a triangle slot in the top. An anti vandal nailed/screwed strip is then fitted to the top to hold the bar to the post. It is commonly used these days, but I don't remember seeing it before the 70s.

I wish Peco would re-publish that book by Jack Nelson again. I saw a copy at Manchester , but it was a bit too expensive. I have copies of MRN from the 40s when Jack was first writing about his approach to modelling and the club he was at in Essex. It wasn't just his adoption of HO, but his use of the Z dimension, with  scenery(a town scee with a tramway) at back of  layouts higher than the front, that put him ahead of most in the hobby at the time.

 

Hi Simon,

 

Do you have any information on what was inside a LNWR coal stage ? - I've got drawings of the outside - I did the Loughborough Derby Road model from these - but I had to guess at the interior.

 

Here are a few urls from ebay showing the fencing - I made a mistake by the way - It's Arris Rail not Harris Rail ...

 

Not LNWR but hopefully of interest...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-WILTS-COLLINGBOURNE-KINGSTON-HALT-RAILWAY-STATION/192428241192?hash=item2ccd9df128:g:nF8AAOSw-kdXyWET

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G5-1-Ephemera-Railway-Halt-Isle-Of-Grain-Undated-Reprint/323007799093?hash=item4b34c3df35:g:~3UAAOSw4hdXH3qg

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-FOUR-OAKS-HALT-RAILWAY-STATION-VIEW-AND-SHELTER-IN-1956/362212643287?hash=item54558e51d7:g:rpsAAOSwVqlZ~JV4

 

Here is an extract from the original LNWR Snells Nook plan drawing

 

 

 

Probably put together a bit differently to the modern fencing - looks like some top rails were nailed on flat rather than at 45 degrees ? - according to Nelson some had wood rather than wire below the top rail. One of the Nelson drawings shows wood rather than wire but it has the 45 degree angled top rail with a steel strap to hold the rail in place.

 

PS - I also found some old photo's that suggest some seats had wooden letters instead of cast iron - so lots of variation it seems.

 

Cheers

Paul

Edited January 17, 2018 by rd84

[rue_d_etropal]

Arris fencing makes more sence, but never seen it used on top rail. Looking at google and it seems to have flat cut ends so each piece fits into post, and probably wedged. Would be tricky on a steep slope, The drawing does not make it clear how it is fitted to each post.

 

Trouble with drawing showing proposals, is that the chap actually building it, may decide it is not correct and does their own design.

 

Jack Nelson did a model of a coal stage. I think I scanned the drawings, so will have a look.

 

 

When it comes to which company to use for 3D printing, it partly depends on what you are aiming for. Shapeways is geared up for selling your designs to others, whereas smaller companies are probably better at doing items for an indivdual. Shapeways are always looking to the future and trying new materials. 

I resized my seat down to HO, and next time I order anything I will try that in FUD.

Edited January 17, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rd84]

Jack Nelson did a model of a coal stage. I think I scanned the drawings, so will have a look.

 

 

- Thanks Simon,

 

Cheers

Paul

[rd84]

Hi,

 

The next lot of 3D printing done in double quick time by 3DprintNscan  is completed ....stairs, Arris fencing, and bridge girders and bridge fencing....

 

 

So just waiting for the main building which is being laser cut by another company and then work can commence.

 

Cheers

Paul

[rue_d_etropal]

 

Jack Nelson did a model of a coal stage. I think I scanned the drawings, so will have a look.

 

 

- Thanks Simon,

 

Cheers

Paul

 

I did not do a scan, but got a copy of the magazine MRC September 1976, because it had article about the layout Accrington club took to Westminster , and was the first time in public for the Mainline(Palitoy) J72.

There is an article by Jack Nelson, with cross sections, and 3D views. Does not look like there was much inside. Just a small office at one end.

 

Still not sure if full Arris type fencing would be used on a slope that steep. Cutting posts to be that good a fit. Much of the knowledge and skills on crafts such as building fences, walls, and hedges was lost due to WW1 and WW2. We were relearning many of those skills in the 70s. Even digging the holes(especially in embankment ), then packing them round the post is a skill, if you don't want the fence to fall down. easier these days as commercial outfits wuld just use dry concrete mix.

Edited January 19, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rd84]

Thanks Simon - I've just purchased that edition from ebay.

 

Cheers

Paul

[rd84]

Here is an exploded view of the LNWR standard Webb Hut for the Snells Nook scene. It is in exploded flat pack format to suit the type of printing that 3DPrintNscan do - I will of course send the parts in a flat horizontal orientation for them to print.

 

 

Cheers

Paul

[rd84]

Glued together.....

 

 

inside...

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by rd84

[rd84]

WSF 3D version from Shapeways in WSF (White, Strong, Flexible Plastic) .....

 

[John_Hughes]

Very nice!

 

Can I ask how you drew the vertical planking? Is it a number of individual planks copied and pasted in a row, or a secession of 'cuts' on a continuous surface?

 

Thanks!

[rd84]

Very nice!

 

Can I ask how you drew the vertical planking? Is it a number of individual planks copied and pasted in a row, or a secession of 'cuts' on a continuous surface?

 

Thanks!

 

Hi John,

 

I cut V shaped channels into a solid surface - I would do them slightly more exaggerated next time - in retrospect a U shaped channel would have been easier - this would have been done with 2 cut lines which would then be extruded downwards to form a channel.

 

Cheers

Paul

[John_Hughes]

Hi John,

 

I cut V shaped channels into a solid surface - I would do them slightly more exaggerated next time - in retrospect a U shaped channel would have been easier - this would have been done with 2 cut lines which would then be extruded downwards to form a channel.

 

Cheers

Paul

 

Ta! - Very informative, and exactly what I'd been wanting to know!

[rd84]

I've got my laser cut MDF version of Snells Nook Halt from Andy at http://www.railmodel.co.uk/ - A really nice company to deal with - I've attached a scan of a few of the parts below - they are very nicely cut and have really sharp definition on both the cut and  laser 'etched' features - the fit and accuracy is perfect. Andy was very nice to deal with and was very helpful in guiding me up my design learning curve to produce the required drawings.

 

So conclusions - no one technique is going to produce a suitable model - I think it needs a combination of laser cutting, 3D Printing and custom work. The laser cutting is significantly cheaper than the 3D printing and for flat 2D items such as walls roof etc produces a better product - the laser etching seems to produce signs with higher sharper definition than 3D printing. So in future when making buildings I will use 3D printing which is still very good, for components that have 3D features and add 3D printed features to laser cut 2D components - obviously for locomotives and rolling stock I think 3D printing will be the way to go because of the large number of 3D components.

 

Being a beginner at this using smaller companies like Andy at Railmodel and Rhys at 3DPrintNscan had the benefit of using their expertise and patience to produce a model - both were very helpful. Shapeways produce the goods Ok but obviously such a large company can't respond so easily to beginners questions.

 

 

Regards

Paul