RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 Sir Francis Drake now joins Royal Mail as being too long for my Heljan turntable. No trouble with Light Pacific Bulleids, 7F, Black Five’s etc. Both SFD and RM have a facility to closer couple the tender but I was surprised that they then would not then take even the curves on the main line. And I had always thought the tightest was 24”. Something prototypical about the length problem on my model railway as there are stories about having to split the real Lord Nelson from its tender for certain manoeuvres.C64836DE-CA88-4507-9990-05D86240AA65.jpeg You’ll have to file a report to the CME. Meanwhile ensure your crews are prepared to allow splitting of loco and tender to avoid late running services. Any delays should be submitted in triplicate to operations in Waterloo explaining the issue. Similarly any double headed specials scheduled in the STN need to allow for excess time for servicing or schedule a trip working to a larger turning facility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 . I rather like the Southern Railway version with no smoke deflectors. Being interested in the BR Black period, where they were all fitted with deflectors, I was wondering whether any had their deflectors at all, even if for a short period whilst in BR Black. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 Sir Francis Drake now joins Royal Mail as being too long for my Heljan turntable. What scale length is the Heljan Turntable? I had assumed they were 90' H0. (which is about 78' 6" in 00) I have a Fleischmann 90' H0 Turntable and it fits with room to spare: Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 . I rather like the Southern Railway version with no smoke deflectors. Being interested in the BR Black period, where they were all fitted with deflectors, I was wondering whether any had their deflectors at all, even if for a short period whilst in BR Black. . How many locos have their looks improved by smoke deflectors. Not many, if any, in my opinion. But I’m sure I’ll be corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) . I rather like the Southern Railway version with no smoke deflectors. Being interested in the BR Black period, where they were all fitted with deflectors, I was wondering whether any had their deflectors at all, even if for a short period whilst in BR Black. . They got them long before BR days, most probably by 1930 after just a few years service. When the LeMaitre (translated lit: TheMaster) chimney was installed this would have had a softer blast than the original so deflectors were still needed to lift smoke clear. Ironically I believe LeMatitre's first name was Nelson! Edited January 21, 2019 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 How many locos have their looks improved by smoke deflectors. Not many, if any, in my opinion. But I’m sure I’ll be corrected. IMHO I would put the Coronation in the class of "Improved" as the bulbous steam passages are (again MHO) rather inelegant. Most others not Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymx5 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 What scale length is the Heljan Turntable? I had assumed they were 90' H0. (which is about 78' 6" in 00) I have a Fleischmann 90' H0 Turntable and it fits with room to spare: Nelson on TT.jpg Keith Interesting. The Heljan is I understand sold as a 70 ft in 00 but it isn’t quite. Even my S15 is tight. What scale length is the Heljan Turntable? I had assumed they were 90' H0. (which is about 78' 6" in 00) I have a Fleischmann 90' H0 Turntable and it fits with room to spare: Nelson on TT.jpg Keith Interesting. The Heljan is I understand sold as a 70 ft in 00 but it isn’t quite. Even my S15 is tight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Regarding the smoke deflectors: I have tried some smoke deflectors that were part of an early 1990s detailing kit for the old tooling Hornby "Schools" class locomotive, but these transpired to be unsuitable: they are the wrong shape and size for the Lord Nelson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Interesting. The Heljan is I understand sold as a 70 ft in 00 but it isn’t quite. Even my S15 is tight. Looking at those pictures I would suggest the deck is only approx 60 ft in 00* as the LN has a wheelbase of 60' 9" with the bogie tender (plus the Hornby add-on for tight curves - say another 2mm or 6") The S15 should fit without a problem as it's wheelbase (including the extra space between engine & tender) is about 57' 6" *If it was intended to be a 70' H0 TT it would only be about 61' 3" in 00, which is a good match for the LN's wheelbase! What is the actual length of the bridge track? EDIT I've been looking up some info on Heljan TTs and their figures don't add up. They claim the model 89121 is 27.4m in H0, equivalent to 21.5m in 00 which is wrong. The ratio should be 0.875 not 0.78, so something doesn't add up! Keith Edited January 21, 2019 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymx5 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Looking at those pictures I would suggest the deck is only approx 60 ft in 00* as the LN has a wheelbase of 60' 9" with the bogie tender (plus the Hornby add-on for tight curves - say another 2mm or 6") The S15 should fit without a problem as it's wheelbase (including the extra space between engine & tender) is about 57' 6" *If it was intended to be a 70' H0 TT it would only be about 61' 3" in 00, which is a good match for the LN's wheelbase! What is the actual length of the bridge track? EDIT I've been looking up some info on Heljan TTs and their figures don't add up. They claim the model 89121 is 27.4m in H0, equivalent to 21.5m in 00 which is wrong. The ratio should be 0.875 not 0.78, so something doesn't add up! Keith You are correct Keith. I had purchased this turntable as 70’ but the bridge track is actually a scale 61’6””. That explains a lot. Now where can I fit a turning triangle in!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) You are correct Keith. I had purchased this turntable as 70’ but the bridge track is actually a scale 61’6””. That explains a lot. Now where can I fit a turning triangle in!? Discussed at length today at the directors meeting in Waterloo.1. CIvil engineering stresses loads can be seasonal, engineering works expensive. 2. Accountants, as always funds are tight. 3. Traffic department: we didnt build it, we just run it 4. CME:we have the answer... 5. Traffic dept: but the crews will have to work harder for water stops 6. Accountants: they still get paid the same, deductions if their late 7. Civil Engs: no objection from us. 8. Motion carried 3 votes to 1. 9. CME: now about those Bulleids we wanted... Edited January 23, 2019 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Regarding the smoke deflectors: I have tried some smoke deflectors that were part of an early 1990s detailing kit for the old tooling Hornby "Schools" class locomotive, but these transpired to be unsuitable: they are the wrong shape and size for the Lord Nelson. Indeed. A cheap Bachmann Nelson non-runner would be the cheapest source for plastic deflectors. N15s are different, too. edit; or of course wait for the Hornby BR version (March?) Edited January 23, 2019 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Indeed. A cheap Bachmann Nelson non-runner would be the cheapest source for plastic deflectors. N15s are different, too. edit; or of course wait for the Hornby BR version (March?) I looked into this, but the Bachmann smoke deflectors, even for the olive green livery versions, were actually the later pattern used on the locomotives in the BR era, and are not correct for the 1930s. The same would apply to the BR liveried Hornby versions. Edited January 23, 2019 by jamespetts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I looked into this, but the Bachmann smoke deflectors, even for the olive green livery versions, were actually the later pattern used on the locomotives in the BR era, and are not correct for the 1930s. The same would apply to the BR liveried Hornby versions. Ah, sorry, I didn't realise there was a difference.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Ah, sorry, I didn't realise there was a difference.. It is quite subtle, but one can spot it if one looks at pictures from the various eras. I used the book, "Maunsell locomotives: a pictorial history" by Brian Harensnape as a reference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2019 You are correct Keith. I had purchased this turntable as 70’ but the bridge track is actually a scale 61’6””. That explains a lot. Now where can I fit a turning triangle in!? There does seem to be some confusion between H0 & 00 and even the manufacturers aren't free of blame. Even though we model 00 to the same track gauge everything else H0 is 7/8 ths scale. Most times it doesn't matter but when length is an issue, as you have found, it does matter. It doesn't look as if you could fit anything bigger now with all the track in place. I would surmise fitting in a triangle won't be easy either. Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Here we have the last word in RTR 00 Lord Nelson models.... silent, smooth-running, powerful, supreme detailing.. What year did you say this was, nurse? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 (edited) or will it be this....? or my old pastiche of various pics... Very much looking forward to March-April arrival of the BR Nelsons.... pics edited, will remove if asked. cheers Edited February 24, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 11 hours ago, robmcg said: Here we have the last word in RTR 00 Lord Nelson models.... silent, smooth-running, powerful, supreme detailing.. What year did you say this was, nurse? Always ruined by the chimney. Fitting a Markits one totally transformed it. Not much could be done with the tender, though So sorry to see mine go. Wating for the new Hornby Lord Nelson. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 21/01/2019 at 18:05, phil gollin said: . I rather like the Southern Railway version with no smoke deflectors. Being interested in the BR Black period, where they were all fitted with deflectors, I was wondering whether any had their deflectors at all, even if for a short period whilst in BR Black. . Maunsell started fitting smoke deflectors to his (and Urie's 4-6-0 designs) quite early on (mid to late 1920s). By the early 1930s (when the locos were renumbered to remove the letter prefix A, B or E previously used to differentiate otherwise identically numbered ex SECR, LBSCR and LSWR / SR locos), ALL the Nelsons, King Arthurs, S15s, H15s, , Schools, U and N class Moguls had smoke deflectors fitted. As such the ONLY livery in which you can run a Nelson without deflectors is the Olive Green with a E prefixed number. Anything else (Bulleid Malachite, Bulleid black, BR Black, BR Green, etc) requires deflectors fitted. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffed 1 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) On 25/02/2019 at 23:27, phil-b259 said: Maunsell started fitting smoke deflectors to his (and Urie's 4-6-0 designs) quite early on (mid to late 1920s). By the early 1930s (when the locos were renumbered to remove the letter prefix A, B or E previously used to differentiate otherwise identically numbered ex SECR, LBSCR and LSWR / SR locos), ALL the Nelsons, King Arthurs, S15s, H15s, , Schools, U and N class Moguls had smoke deflectors fitted. As such the ONLY livery in which you can run a Nelson without deflectors is the Olive Green with a E prefixed number. Anything else (Bulleid Malachite, Bulleid black, BR Black, BR Green, etc) requires deflectors fitted. There was no BR black livery. All of the 'Nelsons' had been repainted malachite green by Nationalisation except for 30862 which was repainted in August 1948. There was however, BR Apple Green carried by 30856, 30861 and 30864 until 50/51. By 1952 all 'Nelsons' were in Standard Loco Dark Green. The smoke deflectors fitted at withdrawal were those fitted in 1929/30, though trials had been made with a variety of designs before the final type was chosen in 1929. 'Locomotives In Detail, Number 8 Lord Nelson Class' by Peter Swift. Edited March 2, 2019 by Chuffed 1 Punctuation 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Lord Rodney now shown as in stock at Hornby. Shouldn't be too long now ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Derails Models Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said: Lord Rodney now shown as in stock at Hornby. Shouldn't be too long now ! Indeed we've just been invoiced. Nearly sold out of our first allocation already....! Edited March 12, 2019 by Derails Models 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Derails Models Posted March 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2019 And sure enough, on my desk this morning... (not really sure what happened to the focus on the buffer-beam on this one...unfortunately I only had time to take one!) 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 If only Hornby would make available the smoke deflectors as a spare part to enable fitting to the olive green versions for the purpose of bringing them into the 1930s (with a little renumbering to remove the "E"). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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