Hornby Announce SR 4-6-0 Lord Nelson

[RFS]

I just wish Bachmann would do some of the Southern Region specific 4MT Moguls. I can't say I've noticed them do any yet (I stand to be corrected).

 

They have done several of them and all with the correct tenders. I have the following, for example

 

4MT 4-6-0 - 75069 and 75074

4MT 2-6-0 - 76053, 76058 and 76069

 

Also two of the SR standard 5MTs (73082 and 73110) - both with correct tenders and also with etched nameplates. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by RFS

[adb968008]

I have one, 32-950, No.76053 with BR1B tender, purchased in 2007, and I'm pretty sure they have done at least one other.

 

John

They’ve done 76069 also.

I paired mine with a BR1F... (it did happen).

 

76020 is another example.

[RFS]

They’ve done 76069 also.

I paired mine with a BR1F... (it did happen).

 

76020 is another example.

 

Although the SR had a number of the early examples, 76020 was not one of them.  The SR had 76005-19 and 76025-29.  Pity they didn't do the SR one whose picture was on the box - 76017. But an easy renumber I would have thought. 

[Ian J.]

I was thinking of the lower number range moguls as RFS has mentioned. I haven't seen any in the number range 5 to 19.

[7013]

As is common these days the threads tend to wander, I expect to be reading about Lord Nelsons, instead I am reading about BR Standards. Start another thread if you want to discuss them.

[Forester]

As is common these days the threads tend to wander, I expect to be reading about Lord Nelsons, instead I am reading about BR Standards. Start another thread if you want to discuss them.

 

My only (and I do mean Only) complaint about RMweb is the inconsistancy of moderation. We go from: let's have a good unmoderated argument, to perfectly good threads being locked and members chucked out for really trivial offences, to endlessly wandering threads of dozens of pages with people reminiscing about their grandfathers.

 

I am really interested in Lord Nelsons and know relatively little about them. I look forward to reading snippets from those more knowledgeable.

I  saw far too many BR Standards and really hate the things.

I agree with 7013. Keep this thread on track.

 

Thank you.

[Ian J.]

Apologies for the 4MT Mogul diversion. Hopefully the thread can stick to Nelsons now.

[7013]

Ian J..No need to apologise, I am sure there is room for a healthy discussion about 4MTs....just somewhere else.

[Chuffed 1]

Presumably 30860 'Lord Anson' at some stage might have looked a bit like this...

 

30860_Lord_Hawke_portrait32_1abcd_full_r1200.jpg

 

from this, very approximately

 

850_LN_Image2a_r1200.jpg

 

cheers

 

pics edited, will remove if required.

Puzzled about the EP model. The Lord Nelsons were in this configuration (Maunsell cylinders & chimney, self-trimming bunker) for a maximum of two years (852) and for some little more than 15 months. Like choosing Rodney as the E/E version which was carried for less than 8 years, this limits the time-span of accurate representation when other options could have given a longer 'age'.  Strange.

[RFS]

Puzzled about the EP model. The Lord Nelsons were in this configuration (Maunsell cylinders & chimney, self-trimming bunker) for a maximum of two years (852) and for some little more than 15 months. Like choosing Rodney as the E/E version which was carried for less than 8 years, this limits the time-span of accurate representation when other options could have given a longer 'age'.  Strange.

 

852 entered traffic in July 1928 and did not undergo Bulleid modifications until April 1939 so I'm not sure where you get your 15 months - 2 years from.  As far as carrying the early BR emblem is concerned, 8 years is quite a while considering its application was discontinued about 1957 in favour of the later style. 

[Robin Brasher]

Bachmann had a long history of indifference to Southern prototypes, only having produced the Nelson, the N, the "Queen Mary" brake and the Bulleid coaches in the first two decades of their existence. Some or all of these were based on models previously under development by Airfix/Mainline and, left to Bachmann alone, there might well have been nothing.

 

More recently, they belatedly recognised that BR didn't emerge from a "Big Three". It was a long time coming, but the "Birdcages (in particular) were worth the wait and I think the Atlantic will be, too. I don't "do" electrics so can't comment on the EMUs.

 

Hornby became the prime source of r-t-r product for the Southern enthusiast by being effectively given a free run at it by their main competitor.  

 

If my experience of Bachmann Nelsons is anything to go by, any lack of sales might have had more to do with the model than the prototype. For its age, it's not a bad effort in visual terms, but two out of the three I have owned were very indifferent runners, which is why I only have one now.

 

I, for one, am very much looking forward to Hornby doing a "proper job" of it, to modern standards.  

 

John

A representative from Graham Farish said much the same thing when someone asked the firm at a show to produce a Lord Nelson in N gauge. He said there was no demand for Southern models north of the Thames. With Tri-ang and its successors being based in Margate they always seemed to be much more sympathetic towards Southern modellers than Hornby Dublo and Bachmann. I think they may have been right in the past as locomotives like the Tri-ang Princess and the Hornby Dublo Duchess have sold much better than the Tri-ang Battle of Britain and Hornby Dublo West Country. Now with smaller production runs perhaps limited to 1,000 there is sufficient demand for the wealth of Southern engines we have been treated to recently and Hornby seems to have its heart in making a new Lord Nelson.

[toboldlygo]

A representative from Graham Farish said much the same thing when someone asked the firm at a show to produce a Lord Nelson in N gauge. He said there was no demand for Southern models north of the Thames. With Tri-ang and its successors being based in Margate they always seemed to be much more sympathetic towards Southern modellers than Hornby Dublo and Bachmann. I think they may have been right in the past as locomotives like the Tri-ang Princess and the Hornby Dublo Duchess have sold much better than the Tri-ang Battle of Britain and Hornby Dublo West Country. Now with smaller production runs perhaps limited to 1,000 there is sufficient demand for the wealth of Southern engines we have been treated to recently and Hornby seems to have its heart in making a new Lord Nelson.

 

The MiM, helped to 'persuade*' Hornby to produce it    

 

*By persuade, I mean the use of the 'tools**' available to the MiM 

 

** By tools, I mean a nice cup of tea (and biscuits) and showing the powers that be around the MiM's facilities - I've been assured that NO Air-smoothing*** was involved 

 

*** Though Coffee Potting may have been... 

[Robin Brasher]

What is the MiM? Is it the Mid-Hants Railway?

[Chuffed 1]

852 entered traffic in July 1928 and did not undergo Bulleid modifications until April 1939 so I'm not sure where you get your 15 months - 2 years from.  As far as carrying the early BR emblem is concerned, 8 years is quite a while considering its application was discontinued about 1957 in favour of the later style. 

Self-trimming tender, as per the photo. 852 was the first to receive one in November 1937. The clue was in the phrase 'in this configuration'!

Edited April 10, 2018 by Chuffed 1

[Dunsignalling]

A representative from Graham Farish said much the same thing when someone asked the firm at a show to produce a Lord Nelson in N gauge. He said there was no demand for Southern models north of the Thames. With Tri-ang and its successors being based in Margate they always seemed to be much more sympathetic towards Southern modellers than Hornby Dublo and Bachmann. I think they may have been right in the past as locomotives like the Tri-ang Princess and the Hornby Dublo Duchess have sold much better than the Tri-ang Battle of Britain and Hornby Dublo West Country. Now with smaller production runs perhaps limited to 1,000 there is sufficient demand for the wealth of Southern engines we have been treated to recently and Hornby seems to have its heart in making a new Lord Nelson.

If they could sell enough to purchasers south of the Thames, where far more people live, it wouldn't matter.

 

 Bachmann have, historically, been generally uninterested in making anything Southern for which they hadn't "inherited" the tooling. Thank heavens Airfix and Palitoy had stuff under development. They have at least partially woken up, having produced as many new models of Southern prototypes in the past three or four years as in their entire previous existence.

 

It took them far too long to spot that Hornby were doing what they considered impossible, having managed to sell loads of MN's, WC's, Arthurs, Schools, Maunsell coaches etc. etc.(without which, they might well have foundered many years ago).

 

Bachmann are left with very few high-profile Southern candidates in 4mm not already covered by Hornby and they left an open goal for the Nelson by neglecting to upgrade their own for so long. Had they not announced the replacement Bulleid coaches when they did, I doubt we'd have waited long to see some from Hornby. We still may now that Bachmann's choices are known.

 

TBH, whilst I'll certainly buy some of the new Bulleids (I bought all the old ones I needed many years ago) and an Atlantic, Bachmann, for me, means N's, the odd ex-GWR item, BR Standards, S&D-appropriate locos, Mk.1 coaches (needs again fully satisfied long ago) and lots of wagons. Not inconsiderable, but far less than I've spent with Hornby over the years.

 

Experience leads me to expect around 95% of my Southern models to arrive in red boxes and, while Hornby keep them coming, Bachmann's prejudices are their problem, not mine.

 

John

Edited April 10, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[SRman]

What is the MiM? Is it the Mid-Hants Railway?

 

Men in Malachite!

[Legend]

A representative from Graham Farish said much the same thing when someone asked the firm at a show to produce a Lord Nelson in N gauge. He said there was no demand for Southern models north of the Thames. With Tri-ang and its successors being based in Margate they always seemed to be much more sympathetic towards Southern modellers than Hornby Dublo and Bachmann. I think they may have been right in the past as locomotives like the Tri-ang Princess and the Hornby Dublo Duchess have sold much better than the Tri-ang Battle of Britain and Hornby Dublo West Country. Now with smaller production runs perhaps limited to 1,000 there is sufficient demand for the wealth of Southern engines we have been treated to recently and Hornby seems to have its heart in making a new Lord Nelson.

I've never subscribed to the theory that people only model the area they live in . I'm in Scotland but I've got Merchant Navies , West Countries , Halls etc. Similarly I don't think for one minute that all the people buying SE&CR C and H locos live in Kent . I think the Southern was for a long time the forgotten region, possibly because of the dominance of emus which people though would not have the same appeal. Once the dam was brocken with models such as the King Arthur, Q1 then there was a synergy that built up leading to Hornbys BIL and HAL emus and a whole pile of Southern locos . But its a bit like the BBC , once they get a format they milk it to death! I think maybe the Lord Nelson is one of the last big ticket items for the Southern . I'm hoping that the J36 and Caley 812 will build up a synergy for Scottish Locos now from people south of the Border!

[RFS]

Self-trimming tender, as per the photo. 852 was the first to receive one in November 1937. The clue was in the phrase 'in this configuration'!

 

Suggest you have a closer look at what Hornby have announced.  The EP is a hybrid - original loco and later tender. That's not what they're going to produce, with 851 having the original flat-sided tender.

 

851 also ran for only 2 years without smoke deflectors so that further restricts when it can be used prototypically.  Given all the changes among the class of 16 I don't think any particular engine configuration was long-lived. 

 

See https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/lord-nelson.html

Edited April 10, 2018 by RFS

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Puzzled about the EP model.

 But as ever, an EP is primarily a test of fits and assembly process, and when photographed may not reflect any combination of parts for a specific release.

 

What interests me is whether the LN will have the same proportion of metal in the body construction as seen on the B12/3 4-6-0. That could make it a very heavy and thus tractively potent 4-6-0.

 

 

Men in Malachite!

 Women in Samite! Helps them avoid confusion when they are out of their skulls on scrumpy.

[Ian Hargrave]

I've never subscribed to the theory that people only model the area they live in . I'm in Scotland but I've got Merchant Navies , West Countries , Halls etc. Similarly I don't think for one minute that all the people buying SE&CR C and H locos live in Kent . I think the Southern was for a long time the forgotten region, possibly because of the dominance of emus which people though would not have the same appeal. Once the dam was brocken with models such as the King Arthur, Q1 then there was a synergy that built up leading to Hornbys BIL and HAL emus and a whole pile of Southern locos . But its a bit like the BBC , once they get a format they milk it to death! I think maybe the Lord Nelson is one of the last big ticket items for the Southern . I'm hoping that the J36 and Caley 812 will build up a synergy for Scottish Locos now from people south of the Border!

I think that the "perceived wisdom" of Bachmann was probably true a decade or so ago.Times have moved on since then with the influx of better and more eye-catching models to tempt enthusiasts.Senior management at Bachmann has likewise moved on....though somewhat paradoxically it has returned to Hornby

[Dunsignalling]

I've never subscribed to the theory that people only model the area they live in . I'm in Scotland but I've got Merchant Navies , West Countries , Halls etc. Similarly I don't think for one minute that all the people buying SE&CR C and H locos live in Kent . I think the Southern was for a long time the forgotten region, possibly because of the dominance of emus which people though would not have the same appeal. Once the dam was brocken with models such as the King Arthur, Q1 then there was a synergy that built up leading to Hornbys BIL and HAL emus and a whole pile of Southern locos . But its a bit like the BBC , once they get a format they milk it to death! I think maybe the Lord Nelson is one of the last big ticket items for the Southern . I'm hoping that the J36 and Caley 812 will build up a synergy for Scottish Locos now from people south of the Border!

Certainly not "only" but quite a lot do and, whilst I do have side interests I would, on balance, plead guilty. I returned to the hobby in the mid-1990s but it was Hornby producing good models of locomotives I wanted that kept me in, with Bachmann very much playing a supporting role providing coaches, wagons, N Class moguls, standards etc.   

 

As you say, Hornby have left very few major Southern items to do so I am, realistically, expecting less frequent new models aligned to my core interests.

 

Whether having cash burning a hole in my pocket will stimulate me to diversify as far north as Scotland, or I decide to spend it on building a layout to do justice to what I already have, remains to be seen. TBH, I'm already running short of storage space for items not in regular use so I consider the latter more likely.   

 

John

[Legend]

Certainly not "only" but quite a lot do and, whilst I do have side interests I would, on balance, plead guilty. I returned to the hobby in the mid-1990s but it was Hornby producing good models of locomotives I wanted that kept me in, with Bachmann very much playing a supporting role providing coaches, wagons, N Class moguls, standards etc.   

 

As you say, Hornby have left very few major Southern items to do so I am, realistically, expecting less frequent new models aligned to my core interests.

 

Whether having cash burning a hole in my pocket will stimulate me to diversify as far north as Scotland, or I decide to spend it on building a layout to do justice to what I already have, remains to be seen. TBH, I'm already running short of storage space for items not in regular use so I consider the latter more likely.   

 

John

Yes I was at saturation point about 5 years ago, but I keep on buying more!

[truffy]

Bachmann have, historically, been generally uninterested in making anything Southern for which they hadn't "inherited" the tooling.

 

Perhaps this explains the lackadaisical approach to the H2. Four or five years after it was announced, the 2018 arrival date is still jumping about like a frog on a hotplate.

Edited April 10, 2018 by truffy

[phil gollin]

 .

 

..........  I think maybe the Lord Nelson is one of the last big ticket items for the Southern . .......

 

.

.

 

I disagree.  Whilst the big engines are mostly done (one could argue about the N15x, and other variants) there are plenty of mid-sized and small engines available (as well as more EMUs).

 

L1's, D/D1's, E/E1's, K's and Q's are ALL "very useful engines" and the N needs updating (and, of course a new N1 wouldn't go amiss).  Not only are they useful, but the are attractive and could be found on main lines, secondary lines and branch lines to nowhere.  I find the K the most attractive but being, nominally, a Brighton Line engine maybe they aren't everyone's choice (sales of the [eventual] H2 and H1 Atlantics might have an effect).

 

As for tank engines there are a multitude to choose from, from huge down to rather small.

 

As for EMU's, apart from the rather obvious 4-COR which has that elusive quality of "character" there is the almost as famous 4-SUB (and Class 455 for later/contemporary modellers) and there are the 6-PUL/6-CITY/6-PAN, 4-LAV's and others.

 

Much still to be done.

 

.

Edited April 10, 2018 by phil gollin

[Tic-toc]

You're forgetting the U class, both 'River' class rebuilts and Southern built.

Long awaited in model form, considering their scope of opperations, spear across the entire Southern network.

Their long lives, plus variants, other than that mentioned above, but the BR replacement frames, cylinders, BR standard 4 chimney, etc.

The same of which could be done to the N class, too.