The Nth Degree Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Well, there isn't any! Why is that? With our propensity for ever-smaller houses I thought this would have been a tidy niche tucked away in the darkest corner somewhere, but there seems to be nothing at all, except for some novelty items in the Shapeway shop. Is this a dead scene here in the UK, or is everyone waiting for something to turn up and jump on it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) I remember somebody having a go a number of years ago (there was something in one of the mags). The problem is that British stuff would be too small to fit on Märklin underframes in 1:220 so you would have to increase the scale to compensate. Edited January 10, 2018 by HSB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 There was a small range which was a couple of diesels (Class 47 and something else, maybe a Class 56), HST power cars and Mark Three coaches. I also think there was a BR 9F 2-10-0 that was more German looking that anything. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I see, thanks. So locos would depend on supplies of motorised units from existing suppliers? What happened to British ingenuity – couldn't someone make something? Would there be a market if they did? The reason I ask is that I'm producing a little wagon kit as a marketing giveaway for a new injection moulding company, and the only complete kit that will fit the mould cavity is 1:220 scale, so I thought I'd have a look around at the British Z scene and came up empty. I must admit this is giving me a few thoughts to mull over... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I don't think it ever took off in the UK. Probably because it was expensive more than anything. What did take off as a niche scale was N6 or Nn3 which was N scale narrow gauge running on Z gauge track. So 2mm to the foot running on 6.5 mm wide track. Peco make a couple of locomotive kits and track. https://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strPageHistory=category&numSearchStartRecord=0&strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3312 https://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3314&numRecordPosition=1 And I think there are a few smaller manufacturers. http://www.nn3.org/ Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Perhaps you should consider doing something for T (1:450) as there does appear to be a small following for that in this country. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 If there's things like Co-Co and Bo-Bo motorized bogies available I know I would and many others would have a go at designing locos and rolling stock to match. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well, there isn't any! Why is that? The same reason why there 'isn't any' globally. (The original manufacturer in Z's home market which still makes most of what's available, and very limited commercial entries from elsewhere, does not a runaway success story make.) Doesn't prevent you making a kit. I'd suggest an MGR hopper as the size constraints of UK stock mean that post steam traction will be more readily achievable by those interested enough to have a go. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well, this has started cogs whirring. Nikki and I are talking. There's no demand because there are no UK models, and there are no UK models because there is no demand or is it lack of availability – that is the question... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 A couple of years old but some interesting bits here:http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37834 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanders Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well, this has started cogs whirring. Nikki and I are talking. There's no demand because there are no UK models, and there are no UK models because there is no demand or is it lack of availability – that is the question... A little bit of 'A', a little bit of 'B'? See the discussions around reintroducing TT into the UK market for another example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 A little bit of 'A', a little bit of 'B'? See the discussions around reintroducing TT into the UK market for another example. Do you have a link? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanders Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Do you have a link? It's one of those discussions that seems to continue over many forums for a long time, never really getting anywhere except in a circle. However, here's one from RMWeb discussing an article published in Railway Modeller. There was also a more recent bit in the Railway Modeller 2017 Annual, and you'll find similar discussions cropping up in model railway forums all across the internet. It seems a lot like some people do want it, but nobody wants to make the first move. A cynic might suggest the pieces in Railway Modeller are a way for PECO to goad another manufacturer into making the first move that they can build a market on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 The same reason why there 'isn't any' globally. (The original manufacturer in Z's home market which still makes most of what's available, and very limited commercial entries from elsewhere, does not a runaway success story make.) Doesn't prevent you making a kit. I'd suggest an MGR hopper as the size constraints of UK stock mean that post steam traction will be more readily achievable by those interested enough to have a go. American Z Line seem to have a fair selection of stock. American proto of course. http://www.americanzline.com/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffAlan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Perhaps you should consider doing something for T (1:450) as there does appear to be a small following for that in this country. A small following..... Very good! I do so much hope you meant it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 I don't think it ever took off in the UK. Probably because it was expensive more than anything. What did take off as a niche scale was N6 or Nn3 which was N scale narrow gauge running on Z gauge track. So 2mm to the foot running on 6.5 mm wide track. Peco make a couple of locomotive kits and track. https://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strPageHistory=category&numSearchStartRecord=0&strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3312 https://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3314&numRecordPosition=1 And I think there are a few smaller manufacturers. http://www.nn3.org/ Jason I didn't know that they still made those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I don't suppose Kevin Smith is a member here? He seems like an active supporter of British Z. I don't much like the track, to be possibly over-critical, and there is an incompatibility between the two most established control systems available, which would legitimately offer the opportunity to create another one for the British market. There's also an opportunity to design out the most troublesome aspect of this scale – track-fed supply. Small rechargeable packet LiPos could easily be incorporated, but with limited running time. Plenty to ponder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I remember somebody having a go a number of years (there was something in one of the mags). The problem is that British stuff would be too small to fit on Märklin underframes in 1:220 so you would have to increase the scale to compensate. I think we've been here before on several occasions! The trouble is our loading gauge being too small due to to commercial interests. (Brunel did try....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yes, but that only applies if you use commercially available (and hugely expensive) drive mechanisms. A proprietary system designed for UK prototypes would have none of these problems. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just incase there are any British Z fans out there I've got some sample motors on order and my electrical chaps looking at a proprietary digital control. I'm really keen to see what can be achieved in Z using modern electronics and micro engineering. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Just incase there are any British Z fans out there I've got some sample motors on order and my electrical chaps looking at a proprietary digital control. I'm really keen to see what can be achieved in Z using modern electronics and micro engineering. Far be it from me to tell you what to do or anything like that and no, I'm not a Z scale modeller but, . . . If you do introduce anything at all in Z scale, please make it in 1:220 scale! I'd hate to see a "new" scale start off with a compromised scale/gauge ratio from the get go. If you are successful at introducing British items in this scale, you'd have a ready made market of accessories from around the world, well Germany and the USA anyway. Good luck with this, anyway. John. Edited January 12, 2018 by Allegheny1600 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave John Posted January 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2018 Many years ago I was asked to have a look at a Z train set that a friend of a friend had bought while stationed in Germany. The usual, bad running after being boxed up too long. I managed to get it all cleaned and working but it was a bit of a nightmare, tiny bits of cotton bud held in tweezers to clean the mechanisms and much peering though glass to see it all. Maybe modern tech would enable it all to make it all work. I am constantly amazed by what some folk manage in 2FS. Either way, it sounds like a fun thing to have a go at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yes, 6.52mm track with 1:220 scale models. Actually I wasn't aware there were any other Z gauge scales, apart from narrow gauge N. Friction is the killer at these tiny sizes so I'm eliminating as much of that as possible. The next biggest hurdle is mass, but I may have a plan for that. Other than those, it's all about miniaturisation. It's definitely going to be fun! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Just incase there are any British Z fans out there I've got some sample motors on order and my electrical chaps looking at a proprietary digital control. I'm really keen to see what can be achieved in Z using modern electronics and micro engineering. Please do keep us updated. I'll stay in touch with Nikki too...If there's some RTR Co-Co and Bo-Bo motorized bogies available I see myself designing a few locos to plonk on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 While planning I've stumbled upon a query and possible problem; couplings. Would modellers in this scale want to regularly couple/uncouple individual wagons or coaches. My guess is probably not, and it's far more likely to organise stock in pre-designated trains – I would imagine shunting in such a small scale would present many problems on its own, with couplings being the least of them. There are several types anyway, so which would one choose? It would be far easier to design a proprietary loco-based train uncoupler rather than individual vehicle uncouplers. But I welcome any thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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