gobbler Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Welcome to my/our coach, carriage and wagon building thread. This will be used to share and learn different methods and techniques so Please feel free to add any comments, tips, ideas, your progress, questions and any other crits you may have. This thread is primarily to show how I do things and will hopefully inspire others, I mean you the reader, to have a go at building something bespoke to your requirements for your model railway. The skills shared and learnt here are quite transferable to locomotive, structure and vehicle modelling. My preferred scale is 4mm or OO, but what happens in this thread can be for most scales. I'll start off by listing the main basic set of tools you'll need. Vernier calliper - used for marking out dimensions. My weapon of choice is a 10" mititoyo. Make sure the the end by the anvils are flush as this is the edge you'll use for marking your dims. Knife - use something your comfortable with, I personally use a scalpel with 10A blades Rule - has to be steel, I use a 6"/150mm and a 12"/300mm rule Square - a good steel square is a must Drill bits - various sizes from 0.2mm and up. Some reamers and dental burrs are handy as well Files/abrasives - a set of needle files and varying grades of abrasive sheet will not go amiss Dividers - I use a steel type with one leg sharpened to cut radii G-clamps - can be useful too. I have some small clamps I made as an apprentice at Marconi And that's about it, tools wise. Apart from the books you'll need to build the coaches from the only other expense would be the vernier, which you can get from about £10 for a 6"/150mm digital type but the longer the better, as you don't get many carriages that short! Consumables Plastic sheet - varying thicknesses. I mainly use 0.8mm for the bulk of construction Plastic strip - Evergreen pre cut strips of differing widths and thicknesses are useful as cutting your can be difficult, well, I haven't found a way of doing it successfully anyway. Glue - I've used various manufacturers such as Mel Pak, Humbrol, Revell contacta etc... but my favourite yet is Tamiya extra thin cyanoacrylate - (super glue) in its varying forms. On reflection I should have used a thicker super glue on the bars of my CCT windows Two part epoxy - may come in handy on certain occasions but I do not use it regularly. Mustn't forget the books!!!! I'll be using Nick Camplings book, Historic railway carriages Vol 1 LNER and constituents That's it for now, However there'll be other stuff that crops up from time to time like brass and white metal detailing bits, pin point bearings and wheels etc... Hope to have your company along the way..,, Scott Edited March 23, 2020 by gobbler Doing wagons and carriages as well 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Well I've plumped for the GER lavatory composite and corridor third. So I've cut to length and width of the main body side panel. The length is a dead length, however with the height of the side, I need to take into consideration the tumble home. For this I've added an extra 0.5mm Remembering to mark out on the back, I've made a start on marking out all window appatures making sure the dimensions come from the top (roof edge level). So now I/we have made a start After all the windows are marked out, I'll be cutting them out and heavily scoring the tumble home line. So I won't be doing much on this thread for a couple of days, but I'll still be watching it. Any Q's and I'll answer them. Cheers Scott 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 One last post before beddy byes All the windows marked out now for cutting out. Just roughly at the moment, until all the bulk of plastic has been removed from all the windows Nun-nite Scott 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Love the idea of this thread, and really look forward to updates, awesome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Cheers Nelson, I don't claim to be an expert or have the definitive answers but I've been getting reasonable results, but hopefully if we can all work together we can help each other improve as we gain experience. So don't forget to post your experiences and progress. Scott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Looking forward to seeing how you do what you do, Scott. The results are very good. This carriage is actually a luggage (or lavatory) composite - the corridor 3rd is the 50' vehicle in the lower drawing. Dan Pinnock used to do this and I think Bill Bedford still offers it. Mine is from Bill. You can't have too many of these on a GE section layout, they get everywhere. There is a 6 wheel version of this body style as well. The 50' stock came later and is very common in photos throughout the LNER and early BR period. This is the corridor side of the corridor 3rd. That lower panelling is very distinctive and it was the difficulty of consistently reproducing that which put me off trying to scratchbuild these. This one came from Worsley Works. Edited July 11, 2018 by jwealleans 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Thanks Jonathan I wanted a clerestory style coach to add a bit of variety. There must be other types such as a full third and brake/3rd with the same style roof, but google is coming up a bit short with any references. I may be showing my lack of knowledge but I thought that Clerestory referred to the extra top lights that run on top of the roof? Great pictures, thanks again for you post. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Thanks Jonathan I wanted a clerestory style coach to add a bit of variety. There must be other types such as a full third and brake/3rd with the same style roof, but google is coming up a bit short with any references. I may be showing my lack of knowledge but I thought that Clerestory referred to the extra top lights that run on top of the roof? Great pictures, thanks again for you post. Scott It's not just the windows, but the whole raised centre-section of the roof; an idea pinched from religious architecture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerestory gives a good description. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Evenin' all All windows cut and tumble home scored and bent Thats it for this evenin Tomorrow the ends and compartment dividing walls Cheers Scott 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Next step Getting the partitions cut Well.......that's done. Have to make sure that the ends were 0.8mm(floor thickness) + 0.5mm (allowance for end radii) bigger than the internal partitions. Will add the compartment corridor walls after. Cut the floor then start putting it together 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted January 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's not just the windows, but the whole raised centre-section of the roof; an idea pinched from religious architecture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerestory gives a good description. It literally means ‘clear storey’ Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) That is some really good work. I can't cut windows out to save my life. Do you have concerns about the plastic warping? Evergreen is known for this and it has happened to me on a building. Good ventlation of the solvent is apparently very important. I have David Jenkinsons book on scratch building coaches in 7mm. https://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103321.php John Edited January 12, 2018 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Next bit The compartment/corridor doors Just going to pop these in like this and let the whole thing dry overnight So it's good night from me Cheers Scott 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) John Thanks for your question Have I mentioned this is in 4mm/OO scale? Can't remember Any way.......if a little warping does occur I can brace the top of the windows just below the roof line on this particular model. However if this was a Gresley suburban brake there's very little you can do because of the space between the top lights and roof. I know, I've built one as per my thread below. Also the panelling that goes on top will hide any mistakes that have happened below the window line That's been my experience. Making it up as you go along means there's no hard and fast rules you have to adhere to. Hope the helps. Scott Edited January 13, 2018 by gobbler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Ah. I've just spotted I've put the 1st class corridor door/window panel in the wrong place Oops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Scott, What thickness styrenne are you using or have I misread some of this thread? Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yes Scott, I understand 4mm. Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Scott, What thickness styrenne are you using or have I misread some of this thread? Khris Thanks for you Q Khris The main construction is in either 0.75mm or 0.8mm. The next Layer is either 0.25mm or 0.3mm, whatever I can lay my hands on Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Yes Scott, I understand 4mm. Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon. John I haven't read or seen Mr Jenkinson's book so I can't comment on how he does stuff. But if your an 'O' modeller I reckon your going to have to thicken everything up What is your scale and regional interest by the way? P.S cutting out windows isn't that bad. You might find cutting them smaller and then filing to the line easier. I use my scalpel for everything. I 'chain drill' a series of holes then thin slice by thin slice take it down to my scribed line. I find it gets trickier if your windows need a radius in each corner. Scott Edited January 13, 2018 by gobbler 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2018 David Jenkinson used the same techniques in 4mm (EM) to built LMS coaches. He used different thicknesses of plasticard for 4mm v 7mm. He may have done articles in the model railway press about building coaches before he produced his book. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Cheers Baz. His books sound like they may be worth a read I've just made stuff up as I've gone along, found the results looked ok and thought other modellers may be interested. Also with this thread I thought we could exchange ideas and give me tips on where to improve or to see if a different technique could improve the quality of my builds. Scott Edited January 13, 2018 by gobbler 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Jenkinson's book is well worth a look although as Baz says it's centred around 7mm models. I think you're right about the clerestory profile and body style being used on other carriages, but the only possible source of drawings and information would be the Great Eastern Society and most specifically John Watling. I can't find my copy of the drawings CD they sell, but I don't recall any other drawings of this body style on there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) I've recently asked the GERS about carriage drawings (in my case 54' suburbans) and they said they don't have much but the NRM has some. The drawings you have there - where are they from please? Edited January 13, 2018 by Bucoops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 This is a useful and fascinating topic, and, I hope, will prompt me to have a go. It so happens that this is the one GER bogie coach I am likely to want, and I will want it. As Jonathan said, they got everywhere, and it would be perfectly proper in early days to see one running amongst 6-wheel stock, which is what I envisage doing. Square lights certainly help. I would be interested in how you might tackle earlier GE styles, which involve square bottom corners but large radius corners at the tops of the windows. What I find particularly helpful is where you explain the technique, such as creating the aperture by drilling and then slicing gradually down to the line. Please keep this up, as I say, it is both fascinating and useful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yes Scott, I understand 4mm. Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon. John David Jenkinson started in 4mm and built coaches the same way when he moved up to 7mm. The only difference is the thickness of the parts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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