RR&Co, my control panel & the basics of automation

[two tone green]

This is my layout, a little bit is below the two computer monitors that form my control panel. Its incredible the power of these two flat screens in that from here with one click of a mouse multiple trains set off around the layout with signals, points all behaving themselves. Trains react to signals and slow to a stop if they are red. Horns are sounded before entering tunnels, routes change as trains pass to allow other trains to pass safely onto their destinations. Loco's climb the ramp to the loco sheds and onto the turntable before parking themselves on a free stabling road ready for servicing.

 

Incredible, never fails to amaze me.

 

I thought that when I built the original panel to run my layout using wood, switches, push buttons, multi-way connectors and miles of wire I was doing well. But it was not quite right for me and I changed over to the world of RR&Co and never looked back. The small section of track I have just let laid with one point and about tow feet of track would have taken days to configure in the old DC days. The changes on the old panel would have been bad enough, but all the point control and interlocking with signals etc would have required days of thinking & doing to adjust the TTL logic and the associated wiring. Now its a few clicks of a mouse and watch it all work.

 

If any one needs advice, ask. Only too willing to help out if I can.

 

Regards

 

TTG

[beast66606]

Here's the Widnes panels - top is as seen during normal mode, the bottom showing the "clever" bits which implement the locking

The strange signals are for interlocking between the panels and are normally blank

 

 

 

As TTG says - if anyone wants help then please ask.

[two tone green]

Pleased you are on board Dave as it is an opportunity to show that there is more than one way to use RR&Co and the way people approach the use of the various functions with in this powerful bit of software.

 

I set out to be able to control my layout using the software so it would let me drive the trains as in a conventional way or let me sit back and watch the trains go by as if I was sat on the end of a platform watching the trains go by.

 

Of course in the way that I drive the trains I wanted to be able to change points, set routes, control the signals if I wanted to and do every thing that the DC or DCC user would do with out any user interface, the computer monitors in my case. But also to allow various degrees of automation as well. Why click on each point individually when two clicks of a mouse can set a route with as many points in it as you want. So this is some for of semi automation straight away. Extend it to the next level and allow the software to change the signals in response to the position of the points, some form of interlocking. Again another layer of automation.

 

Why not go up another level and allow the software to report back the position of the trains and change the signals as trains move around. This again is more automation. And so the picture builds until you get to the ultimate level of letting the software run the trains to schedules, a time table created by the user to their specification. So is this 100% automation or just 99% as the time table was created by a human.

 

The one thing that most anti computer in model railways people go on about is the computer taking over. Read what I have just typed, at what point did the computer take over, spotted it yet. I did the work setting it up and I have the ultimate digital interface, my finger on the off button. But it takes away the tedious job of point and route setting, signals that respond as they do on a real railway in a way that no single operator could ever do in a reasonable time. But the computer has not taken over, it compliments the railway and for me adds realism beyond what I could do alone.

 

I sat and watched five trains all move under control of the computer, stop, pause, sound horns, change signals and points, accelerate, brake, stop at their destinations all without me doing anything. If I had to do all that manually, it would have been a mess as some of it happens out of sight under my engine shed area in the fiddle yard and not only that it happens far to fast for me to control reasonably.

 

Dave has a different approach to the software and its use. His layout is near enough a real railway. If you have not seen it, you should, its amazing. But Dave, if I am right in saying, uses the software to recreate a signal box environment and control the signals to allow the train drivers situated around the layout to drive the trains as if they were in the cab obeying the signals controlling them. The signalman sets the routes and the drivers respond accordingly. A superb combination of 'real' and model world joining together to recreate in miniature what happens out there.

 

Even his switch board layout is different to mine as I have all the magic that makes it all work away from the track plan on separate switch boards. His are visible in edit mode, I like mine being able to see what is happening with the magic as it works for debugging. Makes my life easier. But it shows that two people can have different ways of doing things. Also there are many ways to skin a cat with in the software and one person solving a problem can do it one way with some of the functions or another user will have sometimes a better way but more complicated way. This has become apparent in posts on the old forum recently.

 

So enough of my drivel. Don't want to bore you too much all at once going on about RR&Co. And anther thing. Nothing to do with the company, just a very happy user. RR&Co, V7 Gold.

[beast66606]

Hi TTG,

 

you are right, I use RR to simulate a real panel, Widnes is pretty close (within the obvious limitations !) to being 100% accurate, stepping up of aspects, flashing aspects etc. are all as per the prototype, as is the interlocking / flank protection etc. that's what I enjoy - prototypical operation and control however with the next layout - Wilderspool Causeway, I see room for some automation B)

 

 

I like being able to develop it on my knee, and then take it to the layout laptops, copy it over and off we go with the next, improved, versions of the panels.

 

Might be time for a tutorial - you can head down the automatic (ish) route and I can redo my signalling control - have a ponder and let me know what you think

[two tone green]

Yes, on auto now and awaiting instructions. At what point do you want me to start Dave. If I remember rightly you were adding block occupancy detectors, yes, no. These form part of the basic requirements for any form of automation of running the trains and signals etc. With out some form of train detection, how will the software know what is going on.

 

By far the best method is the block occupancy detection units that senses a train, loco or even a wagon on the track by the current it draws. Even though a wagon may not have a motor in it to draw current, it can be made visible to the block occupancy detector by adding a resistor across its wheels, even conductive paint will do the job. So that when it is placed ANYWHERE on a length of track that is a block with a sensor feeding it with power, the block will show occupied

 

Optical detectors also work as well as reed switches in the track but these are spot detectors and work in ONLY ONE location on a length of track, so that in itself presents problems. If the item of stock is not parked directly over the optical sensor or reed switch, how does the software know that the block is occupied. It can by some clever work but it does have some very distinct limitations and no way as effective as the current sensing type. So any one setting off down the road of adding blocks and block occupancy detection, do yourself a favour and go the current sensing route. There are various brands making these such as Lenz, LDT, Digitrax etc.

 

Once these are set up and the user knows how they work, it is relatively easy to move onto using the info that these nice little unit supplies. Basically its that there is something on the track. At this point the software, even the DCC system does not know what it is, but it knows it is not alone any more.

 

Still with me, good. More later. Think about this and I'll get back to you. Any questions. None too technical please, I'm just a simple soul.

[two tone green]

I suppose I had better say what a block is. For the purpose of all this, a block is normally a section of plain track, straight or curved that exists between sets of points. It can also be a section of plain track that is next to another block or in between blocks. It normally does not contain points or crossings except in very special cases best avoided.

 

The length of track ideally should be slightly longer than the longest train you will run on your layout but don't worry if they are not as it is not a major problem but do try to strive to achieve this if at all possible to make your own life easier and retain any hair you have. I have a lot of short blocks on my layout, some only just longer than the length of my longest loco. To be honest this is a hangover from older versions of RR&Co when there were limitations as to what the software could do and the way it controlled and stopped locos and trains using automatic operation. This is largely over come now in V7 and is certainly solved in V7 Gold. More on this later.

 

So to make a block using current sensing block occupancy detectors, just isolate one rail at both ends from the next section of track. Its that easy. Use nylon fish plates or as I did just slit the rail using a mini drill slitting disc. You can lay all your track and then go slitting as you need. Having first worked out where all your blocks are going to be of course. I'll go into this shortly. The isolated rail is fed power by the block occupancy detector and reports back that current is flowing through it so there must be something on the track. No current flowing, nothing there unless your name is Edwin. The other rail is either fed from the detector for convenience or by just having droppers every now and then feeding it power from your DCC command station. Each maker has its own set up so I wont go into this and leave it up to people to set them up themselves. I use 100% LDT RS8's on my Lenz based layout but will soon go over to ESU once all the goodies are out that will give me the same level of control as now using Lenz. But that is another story.

[two tone green]

Just jumping the gun a bit, this is what a block looks like in RR&Co V7 Gold. It has three block occupancy detectors in it and is in fact one big block made up of three blocks. The ones at each end are small blocks only slightly longer than the longest loco in my fleet with the middle block able to take the longest train I run. Why is it like this, it will take a bit of explain and best left until later when things have developed a bit.

 

I expect you want to know what the arrows heads are, red and yellow. They control the braking and stopping points in the block in both directions. You can have as many of these as you want and allocated to all trains, some trains, one train asyou want or need. To schedules and all sorts of other things that are in RR&Co. More later on all these features. One thing I must add is that the image is not quite up to date as some changes have occured since this set up was used. and the stopping points are now taken from the begininbg of the bigger block and not from the start of the short blocks. I need to explain why it is like this and why I changed it.

 

I have got a bit ahead of things in showing this but it does serve a very useful purpose, what a block looks like in RR&Co. More later

[two tone green]

Right, back to basics. On the blocks, go !

 

Hopefully any one reading this will know what a block is and what it looks like in RR&Co. But I am assuming that those interested in all this have already grasped the basics of drawing their track plan in RR&Co and through the magic that is built into the software, it has drawn the same for you on the Dispatcher screen. The Dispatcher is the real brains of the software and it is in this that all the blocks and block occupancy detector will live and control every thing. But more on this later as I need to jump back a bit and go back to hardware and the actual block occupancy detectors.

 

As part of drawing your track plan and by a bit of prior planning you will have placed the dots that are the block occupancy detectors on to the section of track they are 'controlling'.

 

In the picture of the block above you can see three black dots with a little line through each one. These black dots represent the block occupancy detectors. The line represents the orientation of them on the track plan, nothing else and has not effect on the set up or function of them. I can tell you that this block has a curve in it, hence the left hand dots line is vertical when the other two are horizontal. So you may be able to imagine the track going straight curving to the right and then goes straight again.

 

The dots are black as they are in the off state, nothing on the track. When an object is placed on the track that draws a current, the dot changes colour and the block will show occupied. To do this you have to configure each dot, each block occupancy detector according to which system you use and have set up as the Digital DCC system in RR&Co. Again I must assume you are using only one DCC system for train control and all other functions associated to the use of the software. I mention this because RR&Co is able to mix and match DCC systems so you could use Lenz to drive your trains and Digitrax for train detection, block occupancy. This is an expensive way of doing things and requires you to have a computer interface for each DCC system. But is can solve some problems that users may encounter.

 

ZTC is a classic example. ZTC does not support feedback, block occupancy so a second system has to be used to allow this vital function to be made use of. The S88 bus is a common one to use and very good for making up in the short falls in the ZTC system.It does not solve all the problems associated with ZTC and using RR&Co but at least it will give the ZTC user some use for their system. By the way, ZTC is no longer officially supported by RR&Co.

 

Anyway. back to DCC and RR&Co. So you double click on each black dot and configure it. I use a Lenz system so will talk about that. The configuration box comes into view and you first need to name the detector. I name mine after the block it will appear in and report is state, occupied or not occupied. It makes it easy to find later which you will have to do when associating it with the actual block. With Lenz the feed back address run from 1 upwards but the first 64 are reserved for point position feed back information so make sure you don't allocate the address below 65. Each address such as 65 can have eight inputs, eight separate blocks. This just happens to be the same as four LB101's and one LR101. Look them up on the Lenz web site and it will make sense. Also look at the LDT site and look for RS8's as these do the same as the four LB101's and one LR101 but on one circuit board and at a fraction of the cost of the Lenz units. Also a lot less wiring as well. Have a look as it will give you a break from reading all this.

 

So you have a black dot configured with an address and an input, say 65, 1 or 65, 2 and so on up to 65, 8 when the next one will be 66, 1 and so on. You should see on the same screen as the address and input the name of the digital system you are using. Just give this a quick glance to make sure it is right otherwise, nothing will happen.

 

Next, forget the operations tab and jump to the memory tab. This is is a very clever bit of kit and believe it or not gets around those of you with dirty wheels. Naughty people, dirty wheels, tut tut. Imagine. a loco moving along the track, it has speed and due to its weight, it has momentum. Basically it means that if the loco has dirty wheels or hits a bit of dirt on the track it carries on going but in reality it has lost connection with the track momentarily, no power, no current draw.

 

Question, what does the block occupancy detector need to work, yes, current. But its gone, quickly off and back on as the loco gets over the dirt and reconnects with the track. This is very visible if the loco is fitted with lights, they flash and it is the same for the block occupancy detector. It is flashing away as your dirty loco moves along the track.

 

How to stop the thing flashing, clean the track and wheels. Yes, could do this but very very tedious and a pain really. Why not tell the little black dot to stay turned on for a certain length of time, even if there is no current being drawn. The power interruption to the loco is usually a fraction of a second or may be up to a second at most in the worst case. So if tell the dot to stay on for two seconds after the current is lost, it will stop flickering on and off as your loco moves along the track. This is what you do in the memory box. I suggest you select the little dot next to the phrase, Timer-Begin when turning off ans select a time of 2 seconds.

 

Want to know why you do this, here is an example. When you get around to configuring your signals, the aspect or position of the arm on a semaphore signal will be dependant on the state of the block occupancy detector. If the block is occupied, then the signal controlling the entry into the block will show red. But if the detector is flickering on and off, the signal is also going red, green, red green, arm going up, down, up down. Not very nice and certainly not very prototypical. It can also lead to disasters as well when the trains are running automatically as the softwwre works very quickly, see the block being unoccupied and changes points etc to let another train enter the block etc etc bang bang, to late. So this setting is very important.

 

I need a coffee and will be back shortly to talk, yes, more about block dots and blocks.

[two tone green]

Coffee in hand, lets start again. Lets talk money, yes money. In the ideal world we all have lots of money to be able to have the ultimate DCC set up, all the equipment you want, need to run your railway. But in reality, we need to compromise and the block occupancy detectors is one area we can do this with regards their use in RR&Co. Don't get to over excited about the savings but it can be done.

 

How, read the manual that is very kindly available for download on the RR&Co web site. It talks about setting up blocks and the use of three block occupancy detectors per block. This is a very expensive way of doing things and to be honest, in the V7 of the software not really needed. Ideally yes, but no longer essential. It was in the bad old days in versions before 7. I wont bore you as to why as it is no longer needed. Just one block occupancy detector per block, a lot cheaper. Yes I know, I have three in my block above but this is a hangover from the old days and will be corrected soon which will give even better performance with regards braking and stopping. If you use sound equipped locos this will affect you big time as you need as long as possible block to allow the sound to change with the speed of the loco and both to be matched. More on this Later.

 

Back to those little dots. On the general tab in the configuration box for the block occupancy detector, you will see other various things to do besides the name. The colour etc is a bit obvious but there is one more button on the general tab that needs to be pushed. Its the highlighted track elements record button. This gives you the chance to map out on the track plan just which bits of track this detector controls, covers. Once selected you just click on the track and it changes colour to the default occupied colour of red. Highlight the whole section of track concerned and then click on the little tick in the box that popped up when you clicked record. That's it.

 

Test it. If you have the DCC system connected and working, put a loco on a section of track fed with power through a block occupancy detector and you will see the dot turn red, yes. It should be the dot on the section of track that the loco is on. If its not, don't panic, you just need to work out where and how you have configured all the other seven dots that make up the eight. The address is usually right, its just the input number that needs changing. I am sure you can work it out. The clue is to look at the other dots, has another one lit up red.

 

 

One more thing before I finish for now. RR&Co can run in what is called the offline state. Not connected to a digital DCC system. This is very useful for those of us who have lots of time to waste in work so we can play with the software on a laptop or desktop if you want away from the model railway. In the off line mode, you can simulate things like a train on a track by just clicking on a block occupancy detector and see it change colour and highlight the track sections it controls. Also if you are clever and managed already to connect signals etc, you will see these change. Good, yes. This allows you to sit in work, in an easy chair in a different room, in an aircraft cockpit and play trains, configure things, build your layout in RR&Co. Then take the files back to your layout room, connect your laptop or transfer the files over to the computer running the railway and bingo, it works for real in the on line mode. Magic. It works first time as you have been able to fully test it all by simulating things. Clever.

 

More tomorrow, digital interface in tatters. My fingers hurt from typing and coffee nearly cold.

[two tone green]

Here are some pictures to go with todays blurb.

[two tone green]

Here is my main layout track plan. It is not quite up to date as there have been some changes at the right hand end. Using old files on my laptop away from home. But it shows the difference between mine and Dave's layout arrangement due to the way we use RR&Co.

[two tone green]

Right, are you sitting comfortable, then I shall begin.

 

First off a word about getting hold of RR&Co for those tempted to use it after reading all my drivel. You can down load it from the RR&Co web site here http://www.freiwald.com/pages/index.html

 

You can try it for free, free and for nothing. I mention this as after reading some posts on the old forum, the other place, and some ones comments about free software and trying things out. Well RR&Co is free to try, its what I did a while ago and got hooked. There are other free software packages out there and do some of the things that RR&Co can do or even the other way around. The functionality of RR&Co is unrestricted in what is called demo mode but you are limited to playing with it when connected to a digital system for 15 minutes. But it will give you more time to have a go at trying things out when setting up the software and then you can try it for the 15 minutes. Close it, reopen it and get another 15 minutes of use. Easy.

 

So back to blocks and setting them up. There is not a lot left in all this other than to place the blocks onto the track diagram where you want them. You select the symbol from the list of elements and place the block where you want it. The actual position is not vital in relation to the track as long as it is placed at some point over the section of track that is supposed to be the block.

 

Do this for all your blocks and the you will have to set each one up, configure it. At the moment is is just a block without identity, so double click the block and the block properties dialogue box will pop up. In the general tab, name the block, usual best to call it the same as the block occupancy detector it will be associated to shortly. Don't worry too much for now about all the other options on the the general tab other than to make sure that in the usage section, both arrows are ticked for now and in the box below train tracking is also ticked. OK, done that. If you want you can drop the max speed to a more realist one for now such as 30mph. The reason for this will be more apparent later.

 

Next click the block editor tab and you will see an oblong box on a grid with what looks like little colour light signals at either end. This bock so far has a name but it is a bit lost, it does not know where it is on the layout, which bit of track it is. How is this done? Any answers, no? OK, its by allocating one of the block occupancy detectors to it. If you look to the right and upwards from the block in the block editor you will see two yellow dots, one with a small arrow attached to it. Put you mouse cursor over it and it should say, insert an existing indicator. Click on this and you will be presented with three choices. Choose the top one, contact indicators and a list of all your block occupancy detectors will pop up. Choose the one that you want, has the same name as your block and it will now appear in the block hopefully and the colour of the block will change.

 

That is it really, you have set up your first block. The next stage is to configure it so it can be used for automatic operation, running schedules and time tables. This takes a bit of doing, nothing too complicated but needs a bit of care. You will also need to calibrate your locos using the inbuilt calibration facility when you set up locos and trains before you can run them automatically as well. So lots to do, lots for me to write about and certainly lots for you to learn.

 

You will need to set up all your blocks now before going any further as you will need some of the blocks to calibrate your locos. With out this calibration, the software wont know how your locos respond to the commands they are being sent by the software. After doing the calibration and setting up of the blocks for automatic operation you will be able to test it all out to see what happens and I think you will be delighted with what happens. The fire and smoke are very impressive. If you get this, I can honestly say you have gone wrong somewhere and beyond help. Bye for now, more later. Have fun.

[two tone green]

Pictures for tonights blurb.

 

 

 

 

 

[two tone green]

Just by way of giving you some thing to think about as you try to figure out where to put your blocks, how many you need and of course how many block occupancy detectors you will need as well.

 

Track circuiting, very important and is what is used on the real railway to detect the presence of a train on the track and report it back to the signal box so appropriate action is taken by the signalling equipment. I think that is about right for the real railway and is about right for your model railway as well. But with us we don't have the luxury of lots of space to build our layouts. So some form of compression comes into play and we shorten things to fit every thing we want into a smaller space.

 

I wrote above that a block is normally a plain section of track between sets of points. But what happens when you have long sections of point work, what effect can this have on signals and the condition they are displaying. Say a loco passes a signal at green and enters a section of track made up of point work that is quite long. The signal controlling this section of track will show green until the loco enters the next block and detects it and changes the signal to red. Not very good really as a following train could have followed it into the point work and be exposed to danger. So some form of detection is required in the point work to prevent this, change the signal to red as soon as the loco passes the signal, or as soon as possible. This is where the track circuiting comes in.

 

It is simple to do and just involves more block occupancy detectors but are not associated to blocks and are used solely for controlling signaling. If you look at my picture above of my layout you should be able to see some of those black dots that seem to be away from the track. These are used for the track circuiting I am talking about. I will go into this later in more detail but thought I would mention it now in case any one is thinking about how many occupancy detectors they will need.

 

I have continuous track circuiting on my layout so every section of track is fed through a detector. It makes the signalling more reliable and more realistic as well as it operates far quicker this way. It also adds further protection against trains hitting each other when running under automatic control as every section of track is monitored by the software. I will say how this is done later when I talk about routes, how a train gets from one block to another.

 

One other thing to think about in relation to track circuiting is the way single and double slips are treated in routes. Because a slip crossing can have multiple routes going through them, I have found that its best they are fully isolated from the track connecting to them and each one crossing fed by its own occupancy detector. Again if you look at my track plan above you may see a black dot next to each double slip.

 

Again more on this later as I don't want to over load things and get too complicated all at once. A bit at a time. But worth mentioning now for those in the planning stage and to add to the nightmares of can I afford all this. Of course you can.

[Poindexter]

Excellent, informative thread. I have been trying to get to grips with blocks and automation for a while so this is filling in gaps about the principal behind it.

 

Couple of questions.

Do you need RR&Co Gold for simple automation/blocks and point control? or can you do it with a lesser version? I want to run say two main lines with a total of four trains while I shunt the yard?

 

Do sound locos stop smoothly when instructed to do so (I.E block ahead occupied, so stop) or do they come to an abrupt halt? I ask this because ESU chips dont support ABC or am I getting things mixed up?

 

More questions later I'm at work at the mo!!

 

Cheers

Guy

[two tone green]

I am going to have to be a bit quick myself today. The boss is visiting me so will be of line for a day or so. Good thing is she says I can go to RailEx in Taunton.

 

Lower versions will do what you need but try to afford the highest level possible as you may well out grow the lower levels quickly. Its addictive you know !

 

Don't need any thing like ABC braking at all with RR&Co as it takes control of everything to do with the control of the layout. It can control sound functions etc with great ease.

 

The problem with sound is that it takes too long for things to happen when it comes to speed match sound. This is why block length and a bit of careful planning comes into play. There are other tweaks such as adjusting inertia and weight of trains to get as realistic reaction as possible that can be done but this is at the advanced stage. But I can assist you if you want.

 

I have a sequence that runs five trains all at once with conflicting routes so requiring trains to pull forward to signals and stop to await a clear path. The appearance of a departing HST and Cl 40 both leaving at the same time both heading into a converging route is impressive. The HST has priority and the 40 pulls forward whistling away to itself to the next signal controlling the junction and slows to a stop with the engine tone matching the movement very well. As the HST clears, points change, signal clears to yellow and the 40 pulls away slowly all with matching sound. I sit and watch this and it never fails to amaze me just how good it looks and sounds. All this is going on whilst two 47's work things out at the other end of the layout looking for paths to exit the station and parcel roads.

 

If you are in the west Wales area only to willing to have visitors drop by for some automation.

 

Got to go, boss soon be here and I have not vacuum the carpet yet !!!!!!!!

[two tone green]

The boss has gone home so I am free to play again.

 

So what next. There are a few ways to go now. More about the configuration of the blocks to set them up with braking points, stop points and event makers which are very useful to get things to happen when a train passes a position on the layout.

 

The other is setting up signals using either the signal logic in the signal dialogue box or by using flagman. The flagman is a very powerful little gadget that is triggered by an event or s series of events. It can be configured in so many ways and be used to do so many things it is useful for solving problems. As I have said before, there are many different ways to do tings in RR&Co and the flagman is partly responsible for this.

 

Another option is loco calibration which is vital if you want to run any form of automation with your trains. You can get RR&Co to set routes, change signals etc but with out calibrating your loco fleet, you wont be able to run schedules and time tables.

 

Wont do much more tonight but will say this. For calibration of your locos you will need three blocks each with some form of block occupancy detection, preferably the current sensing type I have mentioned through all this. The blocks need to be one after another with no breaks in between them. Difficult, no not really if you have long block you can partition into three doing as I did by having a short block at either end of a longer block.

 

I'll go into all this in the next exciting episode of RR&Co & the basics of automation. Tomorrow hopefully then go back to setting up blocks again because you will by then be able to run your first train automatically.

 

Regards

 

TTG

[peach james]

Setting up the locos- pilotfriend on the old forum posted about how important it is to set the trains up for full automation. His is a bit extreme of a use, in that I think he doesn't have enough detection blocks to manage what he wants to do. I've gotten away with near murder using 5.0C, in that I don't calibrate except the minimum speed, and just use lots of detection sections. (around 100, so far...2 of them are multiplexed using flagmen to cover 32 sections, but not in a way I would recommend). I suspect that in order to get reliable operation of the full layout, I will have to calibrate the speeds.

 

James Powell

[two tone green]

Hi James,

 

You are 100% right. No substitution for calibration of the locos to get maximum reliable operation. It needs doing but, yes there are some cheats to overcome user problems with hardware.

 

Many moons ago when I first took up life with RR&Co I built a test layout using a spare LZV100 / LH100 I had. The layout is only 2 metres long but has all the elements in it, on it that are on my main layout. To get used to setting things up I had twenty six blocks each with its own block occupancy detector so I could maximise hardware solutions rather than some of the hit and miss software solutions to problems that existed in RR&Co at the time, all now sorted out.

 

It proved invaluable and I still have it and gives a lot of enjoyment. If I am based in one place for more than a few months it follows me about so I can play whilst away from home.

 

One way I set things up in the past was to use a reference loco to set brake and stops points. All other locos speed profiles were tweaked manually to match these fixed points. It worked for a two metre long layout that locos never rally got up to speed much above a crawl, but once RR&Co was set up on my main layout I had no option other than to do things properly and go for full calibration of my loco fleet.

 

Of course you can export the loco calibrations for use on another layout by using the export facility and a USB stick. Its what I do between my main layout and my test layout, main desktop computer, laptop now.

[two tone green]

I am going to pause a bit on this as I need to update my files on my laptop so I can import pictures from my current set up at home whilst away. I would like to show the configuration and set up of a loco for calibration. As my current files on my laptop don't have my sound fitted locos on, I cannot show things for the best. So it will be next week now before I do this.

 

Sorry for the delay but I think it is for the best.

[two tone green]

I'll continue this once the forum is up and running properly. Until the image side is sorted out it will be a bit pointless doing much at the moment.

 

Just wanted anyone who is vaguely interested in this I have not forgotten it all. I have updated the files on my laptop so able to do things now whilst away from home. Too busy at home playing with RR&Co to post much !

 

Thanks

 

TTG

[richard brown]

Thank you for what you have posted so far it is a big help with set up RR&Co, and I am finding it much easy to use than the online manual.

 

Richard

 

 

[two tone green]

Thanks.

 

Where are you ? During the week I am based in Bristol and have no problems travelling to meet up if you need any help.

 

Same goes for any one else with in max 90 min drive of Bristol. I am staying right next to the M5 M4 interchnage so easy to get underway to a lot of places.

[john dew]

Hi TTG

 

I guess Vancouver is a bit too far away for a visit!

 

I meant to reply earlier and congratulate you on starting this thread....it is exactly what I had in mind when I filed my "progress report" a few weeks ago ( incidentally you may see on the RR&Co Forum I have now perfected (sort of) the loco run around at a branch terminus) . I think you have done an absolutely brilliant job so far.....its just great!

 

How do you want to handle RR&Co questions that are not directly related to the subject matter that you are currently addressing. Does one start a new thread or just post a reply here?

 

Anyway right now I do have a question on the current subject......I operate with a single occupancy detector (LB101) per block. I give the Block and Detector the same name.....ie 651 Branch Bay............. I dont have an icon for each detector displayed in the switchboard....principally because I didnt know about it when I set up the block diagram ...........does it matter? are there any potential side effects that I havent come accross yet?

 

An occupied block changes colour and I can change the detector properties by clicking on the block in the block editor window so for now, at first sight, because I only use one detector per block I dont think I need to display the detector icon.

 

I didnt change default on the memory when I set up my indicators.....again because I didnt know any better..........setting a timer of 2 secs sounds like a very sensible precaution which I think I will take. Before I start slogging through changing 40 indicators.........do you use 2 sec as a standard default or are there any obvious exceptions? Does it effect block release at all?

 

Once again many thanks for starting this topic....much appreciated

 

Kind Regards from Vancouver.....just off Highway 1 but many miles rom the M4

[two tone green]

Just setting out on my trust bike, make coffee for about four months.

 

I thought about answer questions in this thread on in separate posts. Both have merit. In this thread people can ask questions relevant to the position I have reached and it may help clear up things in cases where I have not been clear enough myself. also like yourself who choose to do things differently to myself and are perfectly right in what you are doing. As I keep saying, there are many ways to do things in RR&Co.

 

As for posting in a separate thread, it would keep this thread more concise and would flow a little better. Not bothered really.

 

As for your question, its complicated and needs the user to think for themselves. Joke.

 

Right, what you have done is not a problem and it works as you have found out. But, do you work in off line mode, do you have all blocks visible all the time or only when occupied. This is the basis for the argument for what you have done and what I have done.

 

As I said, what you have done is perfectly correct but there are limitations if you have selected to have blocks invisible except for when occupied and in edit mode and you want to test things in off line mode. If for example you have a laptop and take it to work as I do and the laptop has RR&Co on it. You can run it in off line mode and play with your files. When you come to test your signalling systems, points, routes and interlocking, you will need to trigger the block occupancy detectors to see what happens. If the blocks are invisible as in your case with the block occupancy detector embedded in the block and not as a separate item on the track as one of the black dots, you cannot trigger the block to its occupied state by clicking on the black dot.

 

Later on when you have proved your signal logic, inter locking you can make the black dots invisible except in edit mode to tidy things up.

 

So really it all to do with being able to do things away from the model railway, in work for example. Or even sat in front of the idiots lantern next to the wife when X factor is on. Do you get this rubbish in Canada ?

 

You will have clicked on the create new indicator button in the block properties box rather than what I did and used the short cut selection option that puts a short cut to the block occupancy detector in the block properties.

 

Still with me, make sense. I hope so.

 

As for the second bit, yes, very much so. It does impact release of blocks by the time set in the memory function. It can work to your advantage in some cases as it can allow a train to clear a section of track that does not have track circuiting, such as points. I have continuous track circuiting on my layout so its not to much of a problem but if you have visitors who have stock that does not have lights or resistive wheel sets it can help with problems caused by this. RR&Co will see the block occupied by the loco only and not the stock and an extra two seconds is some times just enough for a train to clear points before the software changes the points the train has travelled over.

 

All mine are set for two seconds at the moment and I think they all will stay this way. But I can think of situations where the speed of block release could be an issue, complex point work and lots of trains running in a small space.

 

Have a go, easy to experiment as its all done in software. Have you got into signalling yet as it impacts this as well. I would like to save this for later when I get to doing signals and the options setting things up though.

 

Hope this has helped.

 

Seem to have a sinking feeling at the moment on my bike and my feet are wet. Lands end, just past it.