RR&Co, my control panel & the basics of automation

[Piemanlarger]

Your going to have give me a day (one day) and explain in simpleton terms how this works and how to set it up. I presume it will work just as well on a short end - end layout?

 

Must say it seems very exciting!

[two tone green]

Easy, very easy. Perhaps a visit is needed. Up for one?

 

My two metre long test track with twenty four blocks in it is a good example of an end to end that is fully automated with RR&Co. I had it at the RR&Co get together in Manchester.

 

Even a simple Hornby circle of track can be fully automated with RR&Co if you want to get basic.

[Piemanlarger]

Easy, very easy. Perhaps a visit is needed. Up for one?

 

My two metre long test track with twenty four blocks in it is a good example of an end to end that is fully automated with RR&Co. I had it at the RR&Co get together in Manchester.

 

Even a simple Hornby circle of track can be fully automated with RR&Co if you want to get basic.

 

 

That would be great. I have a bit of modelling time between Now and end of January.

 

you pm me with dates you are free and I will arrange to pop down one dau hopefully.

 

Thanks

 

simon

[two tone green]

Was rather thinking of coming to see you. Its your layout that needs going over, mine works.

[Piemanlarger]

I see, just thaught it would be easier for you to exlain with a working system?

 

Which ever you think is best is fine by me.

[two tone green]

The problem is my RR&Co layout at home is about to be broken up. It may make Xmas but its looking like it may have less time than that.

 

Going O you see

 

Will get back to you soon.

[Gdaysydney]

I have been using RR& Co for a number of years. My recent upgrade to Version 7 and a renewed interest in signalling, combined with this forum has reenergised my interest in automation thanks to Beast 66606 and TTG.

 

Having discovered this forum I am now learning how to set up signals and I am also busy changing the look of my track plan by hiding the blocks when not in edit mode, adding contact indicators as per TTG's tutorials and using the "Highlighted Track Elements tool. Along the way I have almost mastered simulation using the Traffic Control window. !!

 

As I learn more I am discovering there is more I don't know yet - today I noticed that one of blocks had a line across the middle of it now matter what colour I set the block colour to - what have I done?

 

 

Dave

[john dew]

today I noticed that one of blocks had a line across the middle of it now matter what colour I set the block colour to - what have I done?

 

 

Dave

 

 

You may have inadvertently de-commissioned it. Right click on the block and scroll down the list near to the bottom and if the de commission box is checked......uncheck it

[Gdaysydney]

You may have inadvertently de-commissioned it. Right click on the block and scroll down the list near to the bottom and if the de commission box is checked......uncheck it

 

Hi John,

thanks for the suggestion - checked as you suggested - decommissioning gives a red cross so thats not it.

[john dew]

Sorry about the Red Herring......my de commissioned block wasnt quite like yours (it had a red cross) but I thoght it was worth a try

 

Have you tried deleting the block and then setting it up again (obviously make a note of stop markere distances etc)

 

I will try and reproduce it and get back to you

[Gdaysydney]

Sorry about the Red Herring......my de commissioned block wasnt quite like yours (it had a red cross) but I thoght it was worth a try

 

Have you tried deleting the block and then setting it up again (obviously make a note of stop markere distances etc)

 

I will try and reproduce it and get back to you

 

Thanks for the update. I will test the functionality of the block next time I use the layout ( currently doing all the computer software programming on the laptop) and will report how I go. Worst case I will simply replace the block.

 

I'm currently experimenting with triggers and conditions - do you know how to use the "record" function (as shown in diagram143 on page 249 in the manual)- is it just a shortcut to copy an element off the switchboard rather than looking up the elements details and selecting from the dropdownlist or does it have a broader function?

[two tone green]

Click on the record button in a dialogue box and a little camcorder symbol appears. Click on all the bits you want to record then click on the green tick in the little box that will have appeared some place on your monitor. The little box floats around and can appear any place.

 

That's it, then save the items in the dialogue box you are working on.

[two tone green]

Have you changed the colour scheme of your blocks and have set it as a critical block?

[Gdaysydney]

Have you changed the colour scheme of your blocks and have set it as a critical block?

 

Yep - I have inadvertantly ticked the "critical section" box on the "general" tab of the Block - now that I have read page 283 of the manual its a feature I'll be making use of.

 

I'm making good progress with the signals and the Flagman indicator, trigger and operations. I am using the block not occupied trigger to ensure that the blocks are free - to start with at least. Any words of advice in that regard?

[two tone green]

Once I get a good internet connection I'll post on this. Its really bad at the moment in Bristol being a virgin type person.

[Gdaysydney]

HELP !!

 

Spent about four hours today working on setting up the signals and making sure the logic was OK. (Saving the file down as I went) Then when I was about to call it quits for the day - very proud of the work I had done - I found that in non edit mode I was unable to interact - nothing works !! I just get the a mouse symbol that looks like a circle with a diagonal line through it .(The no entry sign )

Connected it to the layout in the hope that it would work - but nothing - same problem - Edit mode still works but thats it !!! Is it a corrupted file or can it be retrieved ???

( Ill need a few stiff drinks if I have to redo 4 hours work)

[Gdaysydney]

HELP !!

 

Spent about four hours today working on setting up the signals and making sure the logic was OK. (Saving the file down as I went) Then when I was about to call it quits for the day - very proud of the work I had done - I found that in non edit mode I was unable to interact - nothing works !! I just get the a mouse symbol that looks like a circle with a diagonal line through it .(The no entry sign )

Connected it to the layout in the hope that it would work - but nothing - same problem - Edit mode still works but thats it !!! Is it a corrupted file or can it be retrieved ???

( Ill need a few stiff drinks if I have to redo 4 hours work)

 

Problem solved thanks to a very quick reply from Juergen Freiwald on the RR&Co Forum- I had inadvertantly clicked the "stop" button - all fixed by clicking the "power on" green arrow - another trap and learning experience for new players !!! ( sigh of relief )

[two tone green]

Sorry about the slow response bu it was down to a rather major failure in the Bristol area with the Virgin broadband network. When I left Thursday it was still down from the Friday before. Will see what its like tomorrow when I get back from civilisation here in deepest west Wales.

 

So, Flagman, a rather powerful and useful little gadget in RR&Co. It is a device triggered by an event, either tuning on or off. As a result of turning on or off it can result in another device changing state, say a signal going from red to green or green to red. But it is not limited to controlling signals. It can control what ever you want.

 

From a signalling point of view, if a train enters a block the block becomes occupied and by doing this it can be the trigger to make the flagman go from the off state to the on state. This then changes the signal controlling the entry to the block red. The other way around, if the block is vacated by the train, the flagman is turned off and this makes the signal go green.

 

There is signal logic built into the properties box of each signal and it does what it says by controlling the logic, a series of events or conditions that makes the signal change its state, green to yellow to red etc. But in complex situations, the logic arrangements in the properties box gets very very complicated and difficult to follow and even harder to de-bug when it goes wrong.

 

Watch out, one problem I have found with flagman is that it does not always respond to a situation where the trigger conditions do not longer apply and you would expect it to turn off and a signal to go to red from green for example. So I use one flagman per state change of a signal. One for red, one for yellow, one for green. That way only one flagman is on at any one time as well so you can instantly see what is going on with that signal and what aspect it should be.

 

When you have multiple routes controlled by one signal across lots of complex point work, this is makes life far easier than trying to set it up than in the signal logic properties box and makes debugging so much easier.

 

But as I said, the flagman can be used for other things as well. It can be used to set up a set of schedules to run in a sequence that allows you to sit back and watch the trains go by. Set a schedule running, as the train reaches a block it triggers a flagman that sets another schedule running and so on. By doing this and putting a on off switch in the conditions box of the flagman, you can create different sequences depending which on off switch you have selected. Sequence one, tow three etc with different schedules running in different orders.

 

By using flagman as well in conjunction with other elements of RR&Co you can build up very complex operations. Its a form of programming, logic and really quite easy to use as its all visual. I did all my signalling using flagman on individual switch boards to keep it all away from the track plan. I broke it down into areas of signals such as east, west etc. Then groups of flagman per signal. Then I can look at the switch boards and see instantly what is happening with my signals. The if I want to include a signal with a particular aspect all I do is select the right flagman and use it as part of the logic, programming I need it for to allow some thing else to happen. Say gates to open on a level crossing as a back up to block occupancy.

 

The flagman is very useful, give it a go and you will quickly see the advantages and usefulness of it.

[BR Blue]

Many thanks for such an informative thread. I am definitely going down this route. Very inspiring.

[beast66606]

The flagman is very useful, give it a go and you will quickly see the advantages and usefulness of it.

 

I don't use automation but my flagmen (well trained lot they are) control all the interlocking and aspect controls, as TTG says, give them a go, you won't regret it B)

[two tone green]

You know it makes sense.

[franco330]

Greetings chaps, I have been tracking yr helpful thread for ages and found it really helpful, if a bit advanced for me yet!. Thanks a lot.

 

I have hit a small snag with commisioning my BDL168 with TC Bronze and apologize for such a simple question but am stumped. I would appreciate a steer please.

 

The occupancy blocks are wired OK and have been checked out with the LT5 on the BDL board. A loco will run OK and shows changing occupancy.. The connection to the laptop is by PR3.

 

When setting up 2 test blocks in TC, I have completed the fields in the Contact Indicator window using values address 2 and inputs 9 and 10. These are the checked ID of the board and the slots on the board for use in the test. I have not installed a board 1 and do not use all of the slots on the board.

 

The problem is that I get no reponse when testing with a loco in the block. The question is a simple one - have I used the right board addresses? Address = Board ID = '2' and Input '9' (based on the BDL card slots running from 1-16)

 

If this is OK I will need to look further, but for now, thank you for yr accumulated wisdom

 

Frank

Evercreech

[franco330]

Greetings chaps, I have been tracking yr helpful thread for ages and found it really helpful, if a bit advanced for me yet!. Thanks a lot.

 

I have hit a small snag with commisioning my BDL168 with TC Bronze and apologize for such a simple question but am stumped. I would appreciate a steer please.

 

The occupancy blocks are wired OK and have been checked out with the LT5 on the BDL board. A loco will run OK and shows changing occupancy.. The connection to the laptop is by PR3.

 

When setting up 2 test blocks in TC, I have completed the fields in the Contact Indicator window using values address 2 and inputs 9 and 10. These are the checked ID of the board and the slots on the board for use in the test. I have not installed a board 1 and do not use all of the slots on the board.

 

The problem is that I get no reponse when testing with a loco in the block. The question is a simple one - have I used the right board addresses? Address = Board ID = '2' and Input '9' (based on the BDL card slots running from 1-16)

 

If this is OK I will need to look further, but for now, thank you for yr accumulated wisdom

 

 

Frank

Evercreech

 

So it turns out to have been pilot error!.

With the help of trawling the Freiwald forum and using LocoNet Checker from Stefan Trachsler I was able to watch the packets on my test track and see that the board IDs which I was confident that I had set - were wrong! All now corrected and off to the nxt steps of commissioning.

For thos folks who havn't seen the diagnostic tool you can find it at http://homepage.swis...er/download.htm Highly recommended and thanks Stefan.

 

Frank

[alangr]

Hi all

 

Yes, I have been 'away' for a while - not lurking but very simply heads in with masses to do (on the layout). I now have some 80+ blocks operational, have managed (with help from the RR&Co forum)to get a Heljan turntable (not the DCC version) working with RR&Co. So I feel as though I am really getting slowly towards something that will run. I am pleased to see that this thread continues as I find it very helpful and constructive.

 

However I am now momving on to thinking about tracking trains (as real working entities using engines and coaches/wagons) as opposed to just engines (as I have been using to test). There has been some very recent discussion of this and I reckon that a SMD resistor on the back of a wheel and then conducting paint looks about as good as it could be. But how about ideas on how many wheelsets to fit up? Only the last axle of the last vehicle? Do both for a standard wagon? Do all four for a double bogied wagon/coach?

 

I guess that the advice is 'to do all' to minimise the possibilities of broken contact but is this thought to be sensible?

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[two tone green]

The best way is do all of them.

 

If you have block occupancy and track circuiting that covers long point work you can end up with the loco in a block and the last axle fitted with a resistor and the point work not showing occupied if you only have resistors on the last axle.

 

Then RR&Co can release points and change them under the train. Yes its a pain but its worked well for me and the complex long point work I have. By allocating the track circuiting to routes and resistive wheel sets on all items of stock you will have a high level of protection.

 

On a coach I have resistors on leading wheel on front bogie and last wheel of rear bogie, two resistors per coach. Wagons are up to you. Do you run them as sets and not part them. If so, every few axles will do. Brake vans have them as they can be left in a block, siding for a while whilst things get shunted around.

 

You need to look at your stock and decide what is best as only you know how you operate the layout. Once you look at it, things will start to fall into place a bit and it will become obvious what needs resistive axles and what does not.