Hornby LNER J83 to NBR Class D

[nathan70000]

Hello

 

I have purchased a J83 bodyshell on the cheap to backdate in to it's original NBR condition. However I have run in to a few problems whilst researching how to do this. For a start; I am confused by the variations on the safety valves. Hornby have modelled them behind the dome, and they are seen in this position on this drawing:

 

However, this model shows the safety valves on top of the dome:

It is also in green livery; which I believe was only carried by Waverley station pilots. If that is the case; is the safety valve arrangement seen here unique to these locomotives? ​I assume ​that for the period I want to represent (1918 to 24ish) they were goods black, lined out a la 'Maude'. However in post WW1 b&w pictures of NBR locomotives no lining appears visible.

 

My final question is; where to get the transfers? I haven't had any luck sourcing 4mm NBR locomotive transfers so far. They preferably need to be N==###==B format for the immediate pre-grouping period.

[sem34090]

I have considered this myself, albeit as a fictional Drummond LSWR 0-6-0T (And doing an NB version too!).

 

If it helps, I have produced some NBR Paper livery overlays for this loco, I'll try and dig them out and send them to you tomorrow if you like.

[nathan70000]

That would be very helpful, thankyou! I've already been looking at NBR brake vans to scratchbuild...slippery slope comes to mind.

[Skinnylinny]

I believe Guilplates used to produce 4mm scale North British transfers. See this web page for details. However, do not expect a shiny website - the best way to place an order with Guilplates is to phone - he doesn't take debit cards or credit cards, so dust off the chequebook or get a postal order!

[sem34090]

I picked up an Umber E4 as a bargain at a show...

 

Now I'm doing multiple CAD's for pre-grouping stock! Don't give me ideas about heading North of an LNWR Watford Tank - I've enough trouble with the Southern Constituents!

 

I will try and dig those out then. I thing they're N (Crest) B, with the lining as per the photo given. I only did the cab and tank sides, and they were stretched to fit the dodgy proportions. That said, they shouldn't be too hard to rescale to correct size, and I do have the drawings somewhere!

[Bon Accord]

Hello

 

I have purchased a J83 bodyshell on the cheap to backdate in to it's original NBR condition. However I have run in to a few problems whilst researching how to do this. For a start; I am confused by the variations on the safety valves. Hornby have modelled them behind the dome, and they are seen in this position on this drawing:

 

However, this model shows the safety valves on top of the dome:

It is also in green livery; which I believe was only carried by Waverley station pilots. If that is the case; is the safety valve arrangement seen here unique to these locomotives? ​I assume ​that for the period I want to represent (1918 to 24ish) they were goods black, lined out a la 'Maude'. However in post WW1 b&w pictures of NBR locomotives no lining appears visible.

 

My final question is; where to get the transfers? I haven't had any luck sourcing 4mm NBR locomotive transfers so far. They preferably need to be N==###==B format for the immediate pre-grouping period.

 

The (presumably) O Gauge model shows the class in original form. The LNER rebuilt them all with new boilers in the mid 1920s and the most obvious external visible change was the repositioning of the safety valves to the location as seen on the Hornby model.

The LNER encyclopaedia has a good write up on this class, see here: https://www.lner.info/locos/J/j83.php

[nathan70000]

The dodgy proportions of the Hornby model don't bother me too much but I will fill in those awful upside down 'u' spectacle plates. Looks like bronze green it is then, it's a more attractive livery anyway! I do quite like the idea of these paper overlays, what software do you use? I've tried it before but where I struggled was that I couldn't 'measure' in the program so I had no clue how big they were going to be in real life. Thanks for the link to the Guilplates site, I'll see about contacting them by email. Apart from the upcoming J36 there's not really much about RTR or kit-based for the NBR is there? I reckon a GBL Caley Single could be bashed in to a 474 2-2-2 rather easily as well by the looks of it, and you could probably get a fairly decent Abbotsford out of a T9. The ubiquitous Hornby Pug *might* make a passable Y9 with some surgery.

[sem34090]

Paper Overlays: These were inspired by Pete of Kirtley Model Buildings using paper overlays to 'paint' his LBSCR Stroudley-era stock. I contacted Pete, and he sent me a few of his artworks. I then experimented with a few bits and ended up producing a sheet for an Extended Tank E2 (Bashed from a 'Thomas' and an original Hornby E2) in LBSCR Lined Goods Black, for which I believe there are no transfers available. They worked quite effectively, especially once weathered in a little bit. I then did a GWR 6w Tri-Composite in the earlier iteration of Chocolate & Cream to fit onto a beautifully built CCW Wooden kit I picked up at the Severn Valley Railway. Since then, I've done numerous locos and coaches, with my best sheet (IMO) being the SECR R1 Sheet.

 

I used MS Publisher and a ruler to create these, and it doesn't always work first time. I usually draw up the artwork, then export it to paint, before re-importing it as an image to make it easier to scale.

 

I seem to remember contacting Guilplates about a year ago regarding LBSCR transfers in 4mm, but I seem to remember him saying he's stopped doing 4mm transfers.

[nathan70000]

Interesting. I wonder if there's a market for a specialist software for this?

 

Have Guilplates stopped making new transfers in 4mm, or stopped making them altogether? If so, are there any other options re NBR?

[Edwardian]

Hello

 

I have purchased a J83 bodyshell on the cheap to backdate in to it's original NBR condition. However I have run in to a few problems whilst researching how to do this. For a start; I am confused by the variations on the safety valves. Hornby have modelled them behind the dome, and they are seen in this position on this drawing:

 

However, this model shows the safety valves on top of the dome:

It is also in green livery; which I believe was only carried by Waverley station pilots. If that is the case; is the safety valve arrangement seen here unique to these locomotives? ​I assume ​that for the period I want to represent (1918 to 24ish) they were goods black, lined out a la 'Maude'. However in post WW1 b&w pictures of NBR locomotives no lining appears visible.

 

My final question is; where to get the transfers? I haven't had any luck sourcing 4mm NBR locomotive transfers so far. They preferably need to be N==###==B format for the immediate pre-grouping period.

 

What a great project.  I will watch with interest.

 

The model in green surely has a Drummond boiler.  He invariably stuck the safety valves in a dome just so on the South Western.  He also had a thing for smoke box wing plate.

 

So, is that not a model of a Drummond J82?

 

If not, it's a later Holmes J83 with a Drummond boiler.

 

 

Now I'm doing multiple CAD's for pre-grouping stock! Don't give me ideas about heading North of an LNWR Watford Tank - I've enough trouble with the Southern Constituents!

 

 

 

Well that has piqued my interest!

[Regularity]

That’s an S scale model, by Scott Willis.

 

He is an RMWebber.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Regularity

[Regularity]

What a great project.  I will watch with interest.

 

The model in green surely has a Drummond boiler.  He invariably stuck the safety valves in a dome just so on the South Western.  He also had a thing for smoke box wing plate.

 

So, is that not a model of a Drummond J82?

No. It isn’t.

If not, it's a later Holmes J83 with a Drummond boiler.

 

There is no such thing as a Holmes J83, at least in NBR days - although it is useful shorthand.

It’s a Holmes class D. As built by Holmes, these had dome mounted lock up safety valves, and other than some being equipped with Westinghouse pumps and air brakes, the class was unusual in remaining in as-built (so much better than the appalling “un-rebuilt”, don’t you think?) condition.

[sem34090]

Haven't yet found the file for the NBR Overlays. I'll keep looking, and may have a print out to scan. If not, I'll dig my one out to measure up and do a new set for you.

[sem34090]

Found it!

NBR D Class Re-Livery Pack.pdf

[Compound2632]

Some time ago I started thinking about a similar conversion. I recall another issue is that the sandboxes on the splashers were taller on the re-boilered engines. (Actually I've just looked that up in Part 8B of Locomotives of the LNER (RCTS, 1983) - the only part I own - as I wasn't sure which way they went - taller or shorter.) There are some rather good photos in that book, including one of 68481 at Waverley in 1958, with a St Rollox boiler and lined out in mixed traffic (i.e. LNWR) livery - demonstrating yet again that that livery looks good on almost any locomotive but especially the smaller tank engines.

 

I still have my J83 bodies with the intention of using them for lining practice - they might eventually see the light of day as Zebedee Drummond's Class C heavy goods 0-6-0Ts, 24 of which were built by Neilsons in 1889 for the opening of the Derbyshire & Staffordshire Junction Railway.