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Seems to me there's a lot of irreplaceable coaches being left on sidings to rot and then finally scrapped for one reason or another.

These things happen, sadly. It's a difficult balancing act - The NRM is having to be careful about what it retains, and many heritage railways have to focus on keeping their main operational fleet running. On some lines this will often include older coaching stock (The Bluebell comes to mind here, with Tanfield it's almost exclusively pre-grouping stock, same on the IoWSR) but for many this will generally mean MK1s or at least late-grouping steel-bodied stock, for some it might even be MK2s. MK1s are generally very good coaches for heritage lines, and regardless of our personal biases as pre-grouping enthusiasts they are now vintage stock in their own right, all being well over 50 years old now. For the general public seeking a ride behind a steam locomotive in an 'old' carriage, they are usually more than sufficient and have the advantage of a comparatively reasonable spare parts supply, comparatively simple construction and high degrees of component standardisation. In the current MHR fleet there is only one non-MK1 vehicle in service currently, this being Bulleid BTO No.4211 and soon to be joined by a Bulleid Open and eventually another BTO. The Bulleids add variety, but have the advantage of being directly compatible with the MK1 stock we operate. I would love to see our Ironclad BTK restored and running behind No.499 when she emerges, but the cost of overhaul compared with the cost of overhauling another MK1, when compared with the issues of a non-standard coach and the fact that the Ironclad is unlikely to bring in any more revenue than that other MK1 means that it will probably be a long time before it runs again, if ever.

 

It may sound a rather hard line, but we cannot preserve everything forever. And increasingly heritage railways are having to be a bit more objective about what will make revenue. Still... I'd love to see it running, and were I in a position to be able to I might start investigating how to start a restoration. I can't think of any running Ironclads, for one thing, so it'd be brilliant to see one.

 

As for the ROD, I always had it down that they were 'Jumbos', Jim. I shall have to consult my material on the subject.

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36 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

As for the ROD, I always had it down that they were 'Jumbos', Jim. I shall have to consult my material on the subject.

The boiler looks to big, and hence the chimney too short, for it to be a Jumbo.  At least to my eye.  Also, the Jumbos' cabs didn't have the wee bit of side sheet under the rear part of the cab roof.

 

Jim

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Looks like a Belgian Type 30 to me? 

Info from wiki below says Type 30s had the same cabs as 812s whereas 32 and 32S had different cabs.

HMGunBocheBusterTrain1918.jpg

 

Belgian derivatives

A Type 30 engine used by the Railway Operating Division
Belgian State Railways (SNCB-NMBS) derived three series of steam locomotives (891 units) from the class 812 between 1899 and 1914. They had a shallower firebox, able to burn semi-bituminous coal and briquettes, allowing a shorter wheelbase due to its positioning above the rear axle. There were three classes

Type 30 [fr] – first variant with several details in common with the Caledonian engines (cab windows, gauges and tender coupling). 82 built between 1899 and 1901.
Type 32 [fr] (later renamed Type 44) – more powerful and fitted with a Belgian cab, higher steam pressure, new gauges and tender coupling. 502 built between 1901 and 1910
Type 32S [fr] (later renamed Type 41) – same features but improved with a Schmidt superheater. 307 built between 1905 and 1914
Until 1909, they were the only new engines used with freight trains. They were also used on suburban and local passenger trains and some expresses on hilly sections. Most of them were retired between 1947 and 1959. Some of them were then used as stationary boilers and two of them (44.221 and 41.195) survive in museums. A third one (44.021), kept as a parts donor, was cut up for scrap in 2002[2].

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_812_and_652_Classes#Belgian_derivatives

 

 

 

Edited by Corbs
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I'm always sceptical about colour photographs from the first half of the 20th Century.  Everyday photographs (box brownie snaps) were ALWAYS monchrome. Professional photography, in the sense of press and technical pictures, were ALWAYS monochrome. Colour photography was in the realm of well off amatures and artistic experimenters, or, in the case of the movies, well off studios.  Most coloured photos were just that, hand tinted monochrome images with a bit of colour added, at home or by a photographic studio.

 

The main real colour technologies available were:

 

Autochrome - 1900s to 1930s (French)

Dufaycolour - Late 1930s to late 1950s (mainly British)

Kodachrome - Late 1930s to very recently

 

Looking at the photos, the first is probably an Autochrome and the second is hand-tinted. The rest don't "look" right for either Dufaycolour or Kodachrome which in the "early" days were vey slow speed films and there's too much "fast" detail captured for the amount of ambient light available*. Movies relied on excessive lighting to get sharp, fast colour images.  War photography using Kodachrome came in with the Americans...

 

Given modern technology (consider Peter Jacksons Memorial film "They Shall Not Grow Old"), it is very easy to colourise both stills and moving images to produce a convincing colour image from a monochrome one, and that's what the last three photos look like.

 

* And look at the "tin hats" in both the train and ship photos.  They've just come back from an arduous stint in France and look identically factory fresh.  No weathering at all!

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a short post - Does anyone have drawings for any of the following:

  • SR Maunsell Z Class 0-8-0
  • SR Maunsell W Class 2-6-4T
  • LSWR Urie H16 2-6-4T
  • LSWR Urie G16 4-8-0T
  • LSWR Urie S15
  • DR/LT Hunslet 0-6-0T
  • SR Maunsell 0-6-0DE Shunter
  • Any late-19th/early-20th small Outside-framed 0-6-0s.
  • WW1 Rail-Mounted Howitzer ('Boche Buster' Variety as modelled by Oxford) Ammunition Wagon

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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I think they probably are in that book, all SR locos are (I think), but my other worry with it is that the drawings are all little more than outline GAs I seem to recall. RM drawings would be better, so thank you.

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Christmas generally comes about a month early for me if Warley is to be visited...

image.png.2044df94dc801fd7ccdcd36f2419f531.png

First up, then, a Kernow O2. I have been after an O2 of some description for a while to provide appropriate motive power for Odiham, but the SEF Kit isn't exactly cheap, the Wills body I have is for an IoW version and finding green Kernow ones at reasonable prices has thus far proven impossible. I was, therefore, quite lucky to find this one under the £80 mark. It will be primarily for use on Odiham but I can definitely see it appearing on Blackstone West occasionally.

image.png.d560f53a031b9f34065d9b6d475f14ab.png

I own two layouts with third rail laid on them, but from April (when I had no layouts with third rail on them and no plans for one, thus I sold my BR Green 2-BIL) until now (In the meantime I've changed my mind) I hadn't owned any SR EMUs. I have been meaning to put this right for a couple of months now, so am pleased to have finally done so. This unit was also at the lowest price I have yet found one of these at in this livery.

image.png.f9e2224615bd1744ce9730413852cf14.png

Edited by sem34090
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  • 1 month later...

My, my, how time passes.

 

Since the last post I have taken delivery of a further Christmas Present in the form of this dear little thing -

1577922135064-1195623940.jpg.4db61aa2db6d883ab4c6ef370547fe53.jpg

To act as one of the two RAF Odiham shunters on Odiham's planned extension. The other shunter is to be this -

1577922240459132782252.jpg.9e21c082a195a19becfaddc9d66646de.jpg

Introducing Lysander, RAF Odiham's Andrew Barclay, previously Hattons' Coronation. Name and Builders plates will be ordered tomorrow.

 

The Ruston might very well join it in blue soon.

 

Oh and Lysander's name is derived from the Westland Lysanders that were operating out of RAF Odiham during the period modelled.

 

There will be more tomorrow, and then some more work will occur on Odiham itself.

Edited by sem34090
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Well...

IMG-20200103-WA0009.jpeg.9b1f4dad6c14f7410e907f1d88809123.jpeg

Might have ordered some stuff from Hattons with post-Christmas funds...

IMG-20200103-WA0013.jpeg.de1798a88fe755620ad9e5ecb24d03e0.jpeg

Plus a 2-HAL.

IMG-20200103-WA0015.jpeg.b7aaa150670a8150c6dcb93a63ffff69.jpeg

And some much-too-clean wagons.

IMG-20200103-WA0025.jpeg.21d6cb3e4451e6b0456c1848785be878.jpeg

We couldn't have that.

IMG-20200103-WA0030.jpeg.e2cb1cfb24eee7f7e760fb8aba707ba8.jpeg

Or that.

IMG-20200103-WA0027.jpeg.22b7bbf9411e59124ea89c8f90220751.jpeg

Or these...

IMG-20200103-WA0032.jpeg.9240f625d5d828ad9cf7f87c6126c94c.jpeg

It took a while, but it's done.

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More work was done last night:

IMG_20200104_211130.jpg.f258d4d0b7c88ad775ae1e401f8ca6cf.jpg

Before...

IMG_20200106_024234.jpg.56268484fb6ac78b410b4c6f1fdf0a77.jpg

IMG_20200106_024248.jpg.c5c6ee1e1f7f5e4fbae99313ed0444c5.jpg

IMG_20200106_024310.jpg.efcb8c095078c3348616c7c9505225d7.jpg

IMG_20200106_024335.jpg.24b2e846828bb68f3fcb578850bc31e5.jpg

After.

In summary, then, I:

- Touched up the road surface (which I am still entirely unconvinced by.)

- Installed a probably-too-modern-but-I-did-it-anyway road sign.

- Found some vehicles which may or may not be in period.

- Repainted the cream on the signalbox into a better approximation of the pre-War scheme before weathering the whole building.

- Installed some of the required point rodding.

- Weathered the platform front..

- Painted the white line onto the platform edge.

- Installed the, now finished, lamps.

- Repainted the station building into a better approximation of the pre-war scheme.

- Weathered the station building.

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More work was done last night:

IMG_20200104_211130.jpg.f258d4d0b7c88ad775ae1e401f8ca6cf.jpg

Before...

IMG_20200106_024234.jpg.56268484fb6ac78b410b4c6f1fdf0a77.jpg

IMG_20200106_024248.jpg.c5c6ee1e1f7f5e4fbae99313ed0444c5.jpg

IMG_20200106_024310.jpg.efcb8c095078c3348616c7c9505225d7.jpg

IMG_20200106_024335.jpg.24b2e846828bb68f3fcb578850bc31e5.jpg

After.

In summary, then, I:

- Touched up the road surface (which I am still entirely unconvinced by.)

- Installed a probably-too-modern-but-I-did-it-anyway road sign.

- Found some vehicles which may or may not be in period.

- Repainted the cream on the signalbox into a better approximation of the pre-War scheme before weathering the whole building.

- Installed some of the required point rodding.

- Weathered the platform front..

- Painted the white line onto the platform edge.

- Installed the, now finished, lamps.

- Repainted the station building into a better approximation of the pre-war scheme.

- Weathered the station building.

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9 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

Touched up the road surface (which I am still entirely unconvinced by.)

 

Must say I agree with you there, negative camber and a surface like a rocky beach!  No wonder the vehicles appear to have been abandoned...

Also, white lines on the platform edge were introduced largely as black-out precautions and would not normally be part of the pre-war scene.

 

Apart from that, the rest is coming on nicely.

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I know.

 

The layout is eventually intended to be set in early September, 1939. Quite possibly during the few days between the implementation of ARP and Blackout precautions and the declaration of war.

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Looking good, Sem.

 

Try Chinchilla dust for the road.  Also, it's likely to be metalled/MaCadam  but not tarmacadam, so I would go for a much lighter colour. 

 

The station building looks champion, though crying out for roof tiles.  Perhaps fit some Redutex?

 

Love the signal box.

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6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Try Chinchilla dust for the road.  Also, it's likely to be metalled/MaCadam  but not tarmacadam, so I would go for a much lighter colour. 

 

By the late 30's I would have thought that most metalled/macadam roads, especially those with appreciable motor traffic on them, would have at least been tar sprayed to bond the surface to prevent car tyres ripping them to bits.  Very rural roads lasted longer in their original state, so  sem34090 will have to decide how well used the road was!

 

Macadam roads were designed as structured layers of stones, from quite large chunks as a foundation, grading up to small chips of less than an inch in size as the surface layer.  Iron shod wheels would grind and pack this surface down into a solid road. Apart from "organic" matter deposited by the motive power, such roads were a whitish colour. The rubber tyres of motor cars drew the crushed stone out of the macadam road, giving rise to the clouds of dust and flung the smaller stones about, thus destroying the road surface.  Initially tar spraying was used to combat this, and when roads were repaired, chippings mixed with tar were applied as a top surface.

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9 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

By the late 30's I would have thought that most metalled/macadam roads, especially those with appreciable motor traffic on them, would have at least been tar sprayed to bond the surface to prevent car tyres ripping them to bits.  Very rural roads lasted longer in their original state, so  sem34090 will have to decide how well used the road was!

 

 

 

Tarmac wasn't really available until 1903, little had been done by 1913 and it took until 1930 to metal trunk roads in this way. It is entirely possible that Sem's road would not be tarmac by the outbreak of the war.

 

Don't recall any tarmac on the Vale Scene.  Sem's location looks to be a pretty minor rural road, so I'm sceptical. I'd have said quite possibly tarmac, but more likely not.

 

Either way, it's currently too rough and too light dark (!).

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
duh!
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10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Looking good, Sem.

Thank you kindly!

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Try Chinchilla dust for the road.  Also, it's likely to be metalled/MaCadam  but not tarmacadam, so I would go for a much lighter colour. 

Noted - Much as I suspected.

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The station building looks champion, though crying out for roof tiles.  Perhaps fit some Redutex?

The station building is 3D printed to my own design, drawing heavily on the one installed by the Southern at Havenstreet. The roof is mount-board, currently topped with Slaters tile-effect plasticard, though this might very well be replaced in the immediate future.

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Love the signal box.

Thanks, again. LSWR Type 1 (but you knew that anyway), from a laser cut card and mdf kit of Alresford 'box that was sold by the MHR. Only a very small number were produced and I swiped the penultimate one which, even with my staff discount, was still about 25 quid. Beautiful kit to build though, and exquisitely detailed.

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

By the late 30's I would have thought that most metalled/macadam roads, especially those with appreciable motor traffic on them, would have at least been tar sprayed to bond the surface to prevent car tyres ripping them to bits.  Very rural roads lasted longer in their original state, so  sem34090 will have to decide how well used the road was!

 

Macadam roads were designed as structured layers of stones, from quite large chunks as a foundation, grading up to small chips of less than an inch in size as the surface layer.  Iron shod wheels would grind and pack this surface down into a solid road. Apart from "organic" matter deposited by the motive power, such roads were a whitish colour. The rubber tyres of motor cars drew the crushed stone out of the macadam road, giving rise to the clouds of dust and flung the smaller stones about, thus destroying the road surface.  Initially tar spraying was used to combat this, and when roads were repaired, chippings mixed with tar were applied as a top surface.

Worth noting...

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Tarmac wasn't really available until 1903, little had been done by 1913 and it took until 1930 to metal trunk roads in this way. It is entirely possible that Sem's road would not be tarmac by the outbreak of the war.

Ah... but the road is intended to represent a relatively busy one. Alton Road would've, by my reckoning, been the main route between Reading and what these days has become the A31. Additionally, it is a road that runs past a substantial RAF base that, in 1939, had recently been expanded. In the layout's alternate history, the Southern had hoped to develop a civilian aerodrome here, too.

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Don't recall any tarmac on the Vale Scene.  Sem's location looks to be a pretty minor rural road, so I'm sceptical. I'd have said quite possibly tarmac, but more likely not.

Tarmac is eminently conceivable, now I think about it.

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Either way, it's currently too rough and too light.

Indeed.

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  • 2 months later...

Goodness me... It's been a while.

 

Sooo - News?

IMG_20200128_213147.jpg.32ba1907b22d2ea535082dcefcba05c8.jpg

Work started (and subsequently stalled) on the RAF sidings extension on Odiham...

IMG_20200201_134244.jpg.7fea080bc0e8abd63c48e20d740d3a6b.jpg

The road was completely re-done, along with a number of other scenic modifications.

IMG_20200201_134255.jpg.6eae4d51912094549d137890c1302cd4.jpg

A small green loco arrived and was shortly after returned to Bachmann when the circuit board blew up. Thanks to Bure Valley Models for excellent service.

IMG_20200212_183337.jpg.0c5d0a5787624647f72fff5b32240cef.jpg

A project entered the planning stages.

IMG_20200221_234233.jpg.7a133248b106fca43d0352e6fa82b2d3.jpg

And after looking through a wonderful selection of pre-war colour photos taken on the Southern, I decided that white really is a decidedly unrealistic roof colour by 1939, if they were ever white anyway.

IMG_20200308_164107.jpg.f72649e2b3a8a5addd7df45c65e24a94.jpg

A 2-HAL got the shiny treatment.

IMG_20200307_111554.jpg.6de3b79c2c64326803efb6c7ca2f5815.jpg

The Ruston and Barclay were painted into RAF Blue.

IMG_20200308_172515.jpg.d66a5fb249885618b3c7df2c666d0931.jpg

IMG_20200308_172454.jpg.9bea50b44ed98a7e64c81547b23bb6e8.jpg

The silver Lysander seen above got repainted as one which served at Odiham in 1939.

IMG_20200308_172547.jpg.bf490de1c85d12c95b83972be56c517a.jpg

And lots of things got weathered.

IMG_20200308_172424.jpg.5d86c8f54405a380d56ab752b9e86361.jpg

IMG_20200307_203718.jpg.a07b385df52caa935d1dda3dd0641ac5.jpg

(Still need to do the N's bufferbeam)

The small green loco returned from Bachmann and works a treat.

IMG_20200317_182434.jpg.e5bf952d383dbc0e4c82968c4b7ca6a3.jpg

I decided to add some destination boards to my coaches.

IMG_20200315_224323.jpg.aba987630630ab0c9b17edcbc022cf5c.jpg

IMG_20200315_222419.jpg.a095d6319c82d4219e0f57b057f0c60c.jpg

IMG_20200310_102128.jpg.859a40b65ccb1f6d5ccf7172dc248961.jpg

SR Destination Boards.pdf

And today built a CDC designs kit (one of several I have in store for the next 6 months). I'm slightly disappointed that I got so much weathering done in the past few weeks as it'd be good to have it to do now we're all isolating. With the MHR shut for the duration I'm going to need something to do.

IMG-20200321-WA0004.jpeg.e4f1435262d89cbc634614124637f2b9.jpeg

IMG-20200321-WA0006.jpeg.0c89e2fe2370baec16568fc176bd6845.jpeg

Edited by sem34090
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