Horsetan Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Hey! That's my excuse!! The Nim. (Now we have to worry whether Riley's added or removed what was there from BR days...) I thought that they would have been fully welded now doing away with all the problems.... then again I thought that there was a A3 shape under a tarp out the back of Riles that is marked for scrap.... I have now got some reasonable views of the bare frames from the last resto session, and was slightly p*ssed off to find that there were almost no visible (snaphead) rivets. Or maybe I was looking at the wrong angle.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 As far as the frame rivets are concerned I just went for it and popped them all. There may have been some locos that ran in service with the frames like this, but who knows. It's nigh on impossible to find definitive period photos that clearly show the whole rivet pattern of any particular engine, at a particular time. Once the wheels are on and it's painted most of them will be obscured so why get hung up on them. In 4mm I guess they would be invisible. Frame holes are another nightmare. This is FS during a recent overhaul. Some rivets, blanked off oval hole and a round hole. Unless you are modelling as in preservation now, this photo is useless as it is over 50 years since it ran in service, and between building and withdrawal the frames will have had numerous repairs. I like to put on what can be seen and I know was there but sometimes you have to be pragmatic. By the way Horsetan, it would be good to see some build posts of the 4mm version for comparison. Cheers. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 As far as the frame rivets are concerned I just went for it and popped them all. There may have been some locos that ran in service with the frames like this, but who knows. It's nigh on impossible to find definitive period photos that clearly show the whole rivet pattern of any particular engine, at a particular time. Once the wheels are on and it's painted most of them will be obscured so why get hung up on them. In 4mm I guess they would be invisible. Frame holes are another nightmare. This is FS during a recent overhaul. Some rivets, blanked off oval hole and a round hole. Unless you are modelling as in preservation now, this photo is useless as it is over 50 years since it ran in service, and between building and withdrawal the frames will have had numerous repairs. I like to put on what can be seen and I know was there but sometimes you have to be pragmatic. 2011-jacking-scotsman-1024x772.jpg By the way Horsetan, it would be good to see some build posts of the 4mm version for comparison. Cheers. Peter in common with most locomotives, there is very little left grom when it was built as 1472 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 From a modeller's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of a preservered loco is original or not. It's whether or not the replaced parts are the same in appearance to the originals that matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 From a modeller's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of a preservered loco is original or not. It's whether or not the replaced parts are the same in appearance to the originals that matter. Original as in Withdrawn from BR, sometime during its career or as built? Using preserved locomotives for details such as frame detail is a minefield. With the LNER in particular, frames were regularly changed at overhaul, plus major repairs during its lifetime, details will change dramatically. Indeed, at its most recent overhaul, the front of the frames were completely renewed. Scotsman is well known to be a historical nonsense, owing to the way it has been modified during preservation, the BR livery it now carries is the only near authentic livery for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I have now got some reasonable views of the bare frames from the last resto session, and was slightly p*ssed off to find that there were almost no visible (snaphead) rivets. Which is evidence of more originality than commonly credited by her detractors. Snap heads were a later utilitarian approach. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 ......Using preserved locomotives for details such as frame detail is a minefield. ... Yes, but I only try to model preserved engines. The way they look today is important to me. I had (and still have) a similar problem trying to pin down a full broadside view of 60007's frames. The current overhaul record on the SNG website is helpful in showing close-ups of parts of the frames, but there appears to be nothing else available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Further progress on the running plate. This is the front end with the curved drop plate and frame extensions added. The rubbing plate added to the drag box. And the splashers added. These are the parts for the valve cover boxes prepared for soldering. The four raised rectangles towards the right are the hinges for and inspection cover. I overlooked to pop the rivets before I soldered the plates in place but luckily could get to them underneath an pop them insitue. Also as this plate is half etch with raised detail, it is not possible to half etch the perimeter of the inspection cover. Again I should have scribed this in the flat but had to do it afterwards. Duuurh! Here they are in place. There are Three further inspection covers at the front which need the hinges soldering in place. The half etch outline for the covers stops short of the running plate edge, so these also need scribing. Again, better if I had done it in the flat. If you look closely (sorry for the poor images) you can just see the hinge bolts added to the hinges for the smaller rearward covers. These are @ 2mm lengths of 0.45 mm brass rod. Here are the sand pipes castings added for the middle wheels, and 0.8mm NS rod for the front ones. I need to adjust the NS ones slightly as they are a bit close. Next the bogie. I'm using cast bogie springs from Ragstone which are in fact Bulleid ones but very similar so will be Ok tucked away under the frames. I'm also using a sprung side control unit from Gladiator. Excellent service again from David and Trish. Ordered on Monday, received on Wednesday. The unit is just tacked at the moment until I'm happy all is lines up correctly. And placed under the frames. Starting to look like an A3 now. And finally my new toy that my wife bought me for my birthday. I not used it much yes, but I'm really impressed with it. Excellent tool. Wish I had it earlier when I was doing the coal bunker with that myriad of rivets! Cheers, Peter 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets? Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets? The GWM rivet press comes with differently-sized anvils underneath the workpiece which I found acts as a sort of padding anyway. You've also got the adjustable screw-in/screw-out clamp, as shown in the photo, although it does get in the way of awkward pieces, so I've tended to take it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets? Emma Hi Emma, No you don't need any. The anvil has a recess to punch the rivets into. It comes with three anvil, for 7mm, 4mm and 2mm, plus two punches, one for punching half etch rivets and one for punching rivets in virgin metal. The sliders are not required for half etch rivets and as Horsetan mentioned, the side to side one is best removed as it gets in the way. It's not cheap but it's the best available. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Thank you PAD and Horsetan, I have been wondering about rivet making machines. I pan to start scratching a few locos and have been looking at the tooling I might need. I had better start saving................ Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Thank you PAD and Horsetan, I have been wondering about rivet making machines. I pan to start scratching a few locos and have been looking at the tooling I might need. I had better start saving....... You might want to add a lathe to your list.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 You might want to add a lathe to your list.... Agree totally! Not necessarily essential, but I bought my first one a few years ago and wondered how I managed without it! (RC model planes too!) Regards, Deano. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Already got two lathes One a Unimat and the other a Logan Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Already got two lathes One a Unimat and the other a Logan Emma Ditto. Unimat and hobbymat with milling head . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Emco Compact 5, Emco milling machine with co-ordinate table, Myford Trileva. None get the use they should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Emco Compact 5, Emco milling machine with co-ordinate table, Myford Trileva. None get the use they should. Well, if you're not using them, why not offer them out to people who will? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Like for rent? Or sell them? Sadly, the latter isn't viable, my wife wouldn't be too pleased. She hates me selling stuff. I have recently had to dispose of four treasured models due to unforseen circumstances, she was very unhappy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2018 Can we swap wives? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Do me a favour and take these Twitter posts elsewhere. I don't mind the odd question relevant to my posts, but this is turning into a p**sing contest over who's got the biggest tool! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 My apologies PAD, I didn't realise it would become so ... testosterony Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2018 Sorry PAD, didn't mean to offend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 On the bogie all the soldering is done and the cast springs added. The space for the slider can be seen and the inner surface were rubbed smooth and polished, as was the sliding brass block. And with the slider block, side control springs and the top screwed on. The bogie pivot is fastened to the spacer with a 6BA bolt and will be soldered later. And with the bogie in place. I gave it a push around the biggest curve on my brother's layout and it seemed OK. The cartazzi axle box needs some attention though. At the moment the spring lifts the front driving wheels as there is not enough weight to keep them down. And a full length view of the chassis underside. Decided to go back to the body and get the two boiler sections rolled. This is the parallel section. It has a neat joining strip for the joint which incorporates two of the boiler bands cleats. The cleats fold up on the joining strip and fit through slots in the boiler. Here's the rear former added. The front smoke box ring which is a 2 piece laminate. The holes for the handrail pillars in the outer ring are only half etched on the inside and need drilling through. This allows for those loco which had the handrails cut short and the pillars removed from the smoke box ring. And with a couple of drill bits to line up the outer ring before soldering. Here are the two sections completed. The coned part has a similar joining strip but with only one set of cleats. And screwed together. And sat on the running plate. Next up the firebox. Cheers, Peter 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 That appears to be a well thought out idea! Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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