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Martin Finney 7mm LNER A3


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Hey! That's my excuse!!

 

The Nim.

 

(Now we have to worry whether Riley's added or removed what was there from BR days...)

 

 

I thought that they would have been fully welded now doing away with all the problems.... :jester:  then again I thought that there was a A3 shape under a tarp out the back of Riles that is marked for scrap.... :no:   :jester:

 

 

I have now got some reasonable views of the bare frames from the last resto session, and was slightly p*ssed off to find that there were almost no visible (snaphead) rivets. Or maybe I was looking at the wrong angle....

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As far as the frame rivets are concerned I just went for it and popped them all. There may have been some locos that ran in service with the frames like this, but who knows. It's nigh on impossible to find definitive period photos that clearly show the whole rivet pattern of any particular engine, at a particular time. Once the wheels are on and it's painted most of them will be obscured so why get hung up on them. In 4mm I guess they would be invisible. Frame holes are another nightmare.

 

This is FS during a recent overhaul. Some rivets, blanked off oval hole and a round hole. Unless you are modelling as in preservation now, this photo is useless as it is over 50 years since it ran in service, and between building and withdrawal the frames will have had numerous repairs. I like to put on what can be seen and I know was there but sometimes you have to be pragmatic.

post-13414-0-47256600-1520327922_thumb.jpg

 

By the way Horsetan, it would be good to see some build posts of the 4mm version for comparison.

 

Cheers.

Peter

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As far as the frame rivets are concerned I just went for it and popped them all. There may have been some locos that ran in service with the frames like this, but who knows. It's nigh on impossible to find definitive period photos that clearly show the whole rivet pattern of any particular engine, at a particular time. Once the wheels are on and it's painted most of them will be obscured so why get hung up on them. In 4mm I guess they would be invisible. Frame holes are another nightmare.

This is FS during a recent overhaul. Some rivets, blanked off oval hole and a round hole. Unless you are modelling as in preservation now, this photo is useless as it is over 50 years since it ran in service, and between building and withdrawal the frames will have had numerous repairs. I like to put on what can be seen and I know was there but sometimes you have to be pragmatic.

attachicon.gif2011-jacking-scotsman-1024x772.jpg

By the way Horsetan, it would be good to see some build posts of the 4mm version for comparison.

Cheers.

Peter

in common with most locomotives, there is very little left grom when it was built as 1472 :)
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From a modeller's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of a preservered loco is original or not. It's whether or not the replaced parts are the same in appearance to the originals that matter.

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From a modeller's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of a preservered loco is original or not. It's whether or not the replaced parts are the same in appearance to the originals that matter.

Original as in Withdrawn from BR, sometime during its career or as built? Using preserved locomotives for details such as frame detail is a minefield. With the LNER in particular, frames were regularly changed at overhaul, plus major repairs during its lifetime, details will change dramatically. Indeed, at its most recent overhaul, the front of the frames were completely renewed. Scotsman is well known to be a historical nonsense, owing to the way it has been modified during preservation, the BR livery it now carries is the only near authentic livery for it.

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I have now got some reasonable views of the bare frames from the last resto session, and was slightly p*ssed off to find that there were almost no visible (snaphead) rivets.

Which is evidence of more originality than commonly credited by her detractors. Snap heads were a later utilitarian approach.

 

The Nim.

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......Using preserved locomotives for details such as frame detail is a minefield. ...

 

Yes, but I only try to model preserved engines. The way they look today is important to me.

 

I had (and still have) a similar problem trying to pin down a full broadside view of 60007's frames. The current overhaul record on the SNG website is helpful in showing close-ups of parts of the frames, but there appears to be nothing else available.

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Further progress on the running plate. This is the front end with the curved drop plate and  frame extensions added.

post-13414-0-54301100-1520505360_thumb.jpg

 

The  rubbing plate added to the  drag box.

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And the  splashers added.

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These are  the  parts  for the  valve cover boxes prepared for  soldering. The four raised rectangles towards the  right are the  hinges for and  inspection cover. I overlooked to pop the  rivets before  I soldered the  plates in place but luckily could  get to them underneath an pop them insitue. Also as this  plate is half etch with raised detail, it  is  not possible  to half etch the perimeter of  the  inspection cover.  Again I should  have  scribed this  in the  flat but  had  to do it  afterwards. Duuurh!

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Here they are in place. There are Three further  inspection covers at the  front which need the  hinges soldering in place. The half etch outline  for  the covers stops short of  the  running plate edge, so these also need scribing.  Again, better if  I had  done  it  in the  flat. 

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If you  look closely (sorry for  the poor images) you  can just see the  hinge bolts added to the hinges for  the  smaller rearward covers.  These are @ 2mm lengths of  0.45 mm brass rod.

post-13414-0-97531600-1520505766_thumb.jpg

 

Here are the sand pipes castings added for the middle  wheels, and  0.8mm NS rod for the front ones. I need to adjust the  NS ones slightly  as  they are a bit  close.

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Next the  bogie. I'm using cast bogie springs from Ragstone which are  in fact Bulleid ones but  very similar so will be Ok tucked away under the  frames. I'm also using a sprung side  control unit from Gladiator. Excellent  service again from David and  Trish.  Ordered on Monday, received on Wednesday.  The  unit  is  just tacked at the  moment  until I'm happy all is  lines up correctly.

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And placed under the  frames. Starting  to look like  an A3 now.

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And finally  my new  toy that my wife bought  me for my birthday.  I not  used  it much yes, but  I'm really impressed with it. Excellent tool. Wish I had it  earlier  when I was doing the  coal bunker with that myriad of  rivets!

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Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets?

 

The GWM rivet press comes with differently-sized anvils underneath the workpiece which I found acts as a sort of padding anyway. You've also got the adjustable screw-in/screw-out clamp, as shown in the photo, although it does get in the way of awkward pieces, so I've tended to take it out.

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Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets?

 

 

Emma

Hi Emma,

No you don't need any. The anvil has a recess to punch the rivets into. It comes with three anvil, for 7mm, 4mm and 2mm, plus two punches, one for punching half etch rivets and one for punching rivets in virgin metal.

 

The sliders are not required for half etch rivets and as Horsetan mentioned, the side to side one is best removed as it gets in the way. It's not cheap but it's the best available.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Thank you PAD and Horsetan, I have been wondering about rivet making machines. I pan to start scratching a few locos and have been looking at the tooling I might need. I had better start saving................

 

 

 

Emma

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Thank you PAD and Horsetan, I have been wondering about rivet making machines. I pan to start scratching a few locos and have been looking at the tooling I might need. I had better start saving.......

You might want to add a lathe to your list....

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You might want to add a lathe to your list....

 

Agree totally! Not necessarily essential, but I bought my first one a few years ago and wondered how I managed without it! (RC model planes too!)

 

Regards, Deano.

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Like for rent?

Or sell them?

 

Sadly, the latter isn't viable, my wife wouldn't be too pleased. She hates me selling stuff. I have recently had to dispose of four treasured models due to unforseen circumstances, she was very unhappy.

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Do me a favour and take these Twitter posts elsewhere. I don't mind the odd question relevant to my posts, but this is turning into a p**sing contest over who's got the biggest tool!

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On the bogie all the soldering is done and the cast springs added. The space for the slider can be seen and the inner surface were rubbed smooth and polished, as was the sliding brass block.

post-13414-0-79695500-1520776787_thumb.jpg

 

And with the slider block, side control springs and the top screwed on.

post-13414-0-67911500-1520776900_thumb.jpg

 

The bogie pivot is fastened to the spacer with a 6BA bolt and will be soldered later.

post-13414-0-42022200-1520777174_thumb.jpg

 

And with the bogie in place. I gave it a push around the biggest curve on my brother's layout and it seemed OK. The cartazzi axle box needs some attention though.

 

At the moment the spring lifts the front driving wheels as there is not enough weight to keep them down.

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And a full length view of the chassis underside.

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Decided to go back to the body and get the two boiler sections rolled. This is the parallel section. It has a neat joining strip for the joint which incorporates two of the boiler bands cleats.

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The cleats fold up on the joining strip and fit through slots in the boiler.

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Here's the rear former added. post-13414-0-32029800-1520778169_thumb.jpg

 

The front smoke box ring which is a 2 piece laminate. The holes for the handrail pillars in the outer ring are only half etched on the inside and need drilling through. This allows for those loco which had the handrails cut short and the pillars removed from the smoke box ring.

post-13414-0-27383600-1520778218_thumb.jpg

 

And with a couple of drill bits to line up the outer ring before soldering.

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Here are the two sections completed. The coned part has a similar joining strip but with only one set of cleats.

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And screwed together.

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And sat on the running plate.

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Next up the firebox.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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